What really happened in Fatima?

6 popes and unknown number of cardinals didn't tell us the truth. What happened in Fatima 1917? If we accept it was the real Our Lady, what She really said?

Many devote people just cannot go out of the so set paradigm. They cannot contemplate scenario where they are already deluded from the beginning. They do not notice the simple fact that the First and Second secrets are NOT ANNOUNCED IN 1917 in the field by the 3 children! Not like modern apparitions where the seer dictates under the camera! It didn't happen in Fatima at all! NO SECRETS WERE ANNOUNCED TO THE MULTITUDE THAT SAW THE SUN MIRACLE! The 1st and 2nd secrets are written down in 1941 by Lucy and sent to the pope in a sealed envelope. At least that is what we are told (pls refer to sources of Fatima like fatima.org or others, internet is full of them). The texts released in 1941 known as 1st and 2nd secrets are texts that passed the utmost scrutiny of the Vatican, in a hierarchy stricktly set in centuries old rules (and who knows what more) before the Second Vatican Council. We must notice the fact 1941 is already the time when WW2 is in full mode on the Western front, France is captured as well as the rest of Western Europe by Hitler. In June 1941 Hitler invaded the Soviet Union. In such unfortunate circumstances of unimaginable mechanized military at that time and falling country after country, the Vatican releases the secrets that point out the finger to Russia (then Soviet Union).

The possibility to politicize the message of the biggest apparition in 20th century, published only after the events happened and not before them, is far greater than the humble believers could accept or even imagine.

There are already precedents of changed messages allegedly coming from Heaven. For ex. bl. Elena Aiello's prophecies have at least 2 versions both available online. In one of them the priests' immorality is strongly criticized, and in the other they are praised and encouraged to be example of morality...(sorry I cannot present all the links, pls just googe them).

Even if everything said about Fatima secrets 1 and 2 is presented to the public exactly as it was given by Our Lady, still remains the enigma of the so called Third Secret. The vision of martyrdom offered in 2000 as the "official secret" is not a part of the text released as 1st and 2nd secret. It is a vision of Lucy not message of Our Lady. (other interpretations exist that it is totally fabricated, but let say it is a true vision and is published as it is). The devote researcher knows well that the 3rd secret should be a part of the same text as 1st and 2nd and is a part of that message not a separate vision.

We still don't know the real Fatima. The suggestions it is WW3 started by Russia, (or averted after the so called consecration), or planetary cataclysm, or antichrist in hi ranks, are just what they are - suggestions. Why not involvement of extraterrestrials, good and/or bad? It is really something revolutionary in the christian thought and worth of the biggest apparition of the 20th bloodiest century. The speculation, prognosis and best guesses (or not so best) will continue until the moment when the public will finally be presented with the authentic texts.

The situation with the so called 3rd secret, half revealed, half concealed or even brutally changed and fabricated (I don't know which is true) makes uncertain the 1st and 2nd secret as well. Because we stumble upon the same kind of reasons that hided the 3rd. Or much worse. In 1941 there wasn't Vatican 2 to allow many things the faithful today enjoy to do. Especially in the realm of the supernatural. Imprimatur was required for everything printed, and so on. The elderly faithful today may be unhappy with some of the results of Vatican 2 but let they remember the censored books for ex. in the time before (or ask somebody, or read about it). Let not go further back in time, because the more we go the worse the picture is. Instead of blaming Vatican 2 let ask for Vatican 3.

Let me repeat again, on the day of Fatima 96 y after the first apparition: the uncertainty only grows, for me to the extend to doubt the already existing texts or requirements for consecration of Russia. If so, why didn't they do it? May be OL never asked it, or may be there is a completely different text about Russia. The questions and speculations only will rise if the mode of JPII is followed - say about millions dead from one moment to another, say it is not necessary for the faithful to know it ?!? and then release a fabricated vision saying it is already fulfilled. Quite naive, unsatisfactory, petty. It puts the intelligence of the faithful to test. It humiliates them, asking them to believe authority instead of the truth. it speaks of the authority itself.

Notice that none of the above is ex cathedra or dogma. I may not believe a line of Fatima and that is not required for my salvation. As the things go, I will reach the point not to believe a line. Because I refuse to believe a lie. And I have no criteria to discern when the lie is offered together mixed with the truth.

Some children were encouraged to lie by the church and the church isn't likely to ever admit that.

What really happened in Fatima?,

The veil between our world and the next opened.
3 peasant children saw Mary, the mother of Jesus.
Prophecies were made by Mary .. and came true.
Thousands of people saw the miracle of the sun.
Lives were changed for the better. The end.

a mass ufo sighting, and a contactees/aliens interaction.

Originally posted by DPrice
Some children were encouraged to lie by the church and the church isn't likely to ever admit that.

not the children. The children never said publicly any secret. by 1920 both of them were dead. Lucy wrote it down by 1941 at church's request. The way we were presented with a forged or at best a cut off portion of the 3rd secret in 2000, the same way the world's public could have been presented with a forged or cut off text in 1941. In the conditions of WW2. In situation when more or less the papacy tried to be "neutral" to nazi Germany that invaded all continental Europe. We cannot imagine similar situation today. It has nothing to do with the children and the vision itself. Let the church come clear from the mess by releasing the authentic handwriting of the authentic Lucy! Because sites doubt even that. Check this forum for other views that doubt the ID of later Lucy.

Originally posted by RoScoLaz
a mass ufo sighting, and a contactees/aliens interaction.

That is a likely possibility, taking into account pope John 23 was contacted by George Adamski in the Vatican.
I don't say OL is UFo or OL needs UFO. But it may be connected quite much. As for ex. OL to tell the children AND THE WORLD of imminent ET contact in the next century. And that frightens the church as much as to invent the entire saga with Russia, and post factum WW2 at the time WW2 already started. Let they prove it is wrong! Or let they just say the truth the way it is. It is 21st century! The world public is grown up for that. Incl. the faithful catholics, hope so.

reply to post by 2012newstart

Notice that none of the above is ex cathedra or dogma. I may not believe a line of Fatima and that is not required for my salvation. As the things go, I will reach the point not to believe a line. Because I refuse to believe a lie. And I have no criteria to discern when the lie is offered together mixed with the truth.

One thing I have noticed over the years is in how people often call up denial of things that run contrary to their preferred avenues of belief. There is no doubt whatsoever that given one has a preset shelf of beliefs going into something, that the exit will not match the same.

Now, as far as Fatima? I wasn't there. In fact, I wasn't there when Rome burned and Nero supposedly fiddled. I wasn't there when Christ was crucified. I wasn't there at Roswell, NM in 1947. I wasn't in New York on 9.11 either.

Where this leaves me is at the reference desk where I absorb what is available and then, once mixed with my personality and belief system, something resembling an opinion emerges. It doesn't make me right... especially if I choose to believe or disbelieve in some absolute fashion. In fact, full devotion to such would be foolish because, again... I wasn't there.

I don't know beyond even the slimmest of reasonable doubts.

So... we believe what we choose. Who's right and wrong has no bearing, lol.

Cheers

another proof in the UFO possibility is the fact that monsignor Balducci published the Neues Europa text of the 3rd secret in Osservatore Romano in 1978 after the mysterious death of JP1 and before the election of JP2. Monsignor Balducci is one of the few Vatican officials who ever talked publicly of extraterrestrial life. He did so in quite unequivocal terms. I would say he added to the knowledge of the ET researchers. The interview is available on youtube translated in English. Quite much of coincidence the same man to speak on both issues, to be allowed to do so by the Vatican in the position of papal astronomer. You judge by yourselves. I had enough of speculation and did that thread only because it is quite significant anniversary of Fatima in the condition of unfulfilled 2012 doom, and the last pope in Malachi's list. I intend to stop my series on Fatima with that thread. Everyone who reads here, who finds this, is intelligent enough to browse read and reflect more.

reply to post by 2012newstart

WW3 started by Russia ! what an absurd !! If Fatima had predicted anything, surely that would have been the corruption of Vatican and it's share in corruption and supporting oppressors of the world, that is it !!!
moreover Fatima is a word which is respected by many people regardless of their religions. even in other countries.

spaceweather.com...

STRONGEST FLARE OF THE YEAR: A sunspot hiding behind the sun's northeastern limb erupted on May 13th at 02:17 UT, producing the strongest solar flare of the year so far. NASA's Solar Dynamics Observatory recorded the extreme UV flash from the X1.7-class eruption:

Before they update the site, another X flare comes on the graph.
2 X-class solar flares in one day May 13 2013! the biggest for this year. Fatima sun - when?

reply to post by 2012newstart


Allow me to include a an urban legend about the final Fatima secret

In the sixth grade, my teachers had the wonderful habit of giving out prizes to the pupils, be it for attendance or proficiency or whatever positive point they could find about us. The prize I won that year was a book about Fatima and the 3 secrets. I was unimpressed that I was receiving a religious book, preferring adventure or mystery novels. Needless to say I got rid of it at some point, but not until after I read it. The book spoke about the two revealed secrets and when it came to the third one, the book claimed that that upon reading the message from Lucy, the only comment the pope supposedly made was "poor Canada". It sparked further rumours that if war destroyed the Vatican, it would move to Quebec as it was so Catholic at that time. Needless to say, it was often denied later, but not until umpteen people knew the supposed story.

However in my own consideration of the third secret, I concluded that it would have to be something ominous enough to make the Vatican go back on its promise to reveal it in 1960. I lost touch with the Catholic church, but when I accidentally caught the video of pope Benedict singing the praises of Lucifer at the 2009 Easter service I think it was, and declaring him to be the father of Jesus, my mind was completely blown. All his versions of the video were removed from YTube shortly after he resigned. To me in any case, I had seen the third secret revealed in its unforgettable horror. I say horror, because although people do not speak of it, or if they do/did I wasn't aware of it, the pope really looked like a possessed person. It seemed to confirm the end of the Christian era to me.

reply to post by aboutface

yes the Nazi pop ! reaLLY !! did you know !!!

Fatima Sun is coming, fast! I don't know Exactly what that means, I only know or guess the general frames of that event. Much could be talked from that point of view, and some scientists involved in prediction science do it. I may enter into details if anyone cares. The faithful people who sometimes post and most of the times read such forums (ATS being one of the best if not the best), MUST realize their faithfulness does not start and end with a century old text and with a prayer rosary. it is good of course but they must reflect on what the Heaven really tells them. Incl thru the nature, incl thru the politics, or thru people like me who spend time online being no paid agent of anyone but thinking they are doing something like God's given mission or so...I feel tired seeing no significant responce among the people I know, people very devote, or among those whom I don't know personally but who appear online sometimes. It doesn't matter if I am 100% or even 50% correct. it matters YOU start thinking on what is real and what is not. anyway.

Here is the latest from spaceweather.com
ANOTHER X-FLARE ON MAY 15: When the week began, the sun hadn't unleashed an X-flare all year long. In only two days, sunspot AR1748 has produced four. The latest X-flare from this active sunspot occured on May 15th at 0152 UT. NASA's Solar Dynamics Observatory captured the extreme ultraviolet flash:




What you faithful will do if tomorrow the world is told unequivocally it is going to end by a massive solar flare and not even microbial life will remain on planet earth for the next 100,000 years? Or may be only microbial life? That happened in geologic times, more than once. How would you react if you are told there is a way out but that way out involves extraterrestrial rescue from the planet? Will you accept them as the Angels of Ezekiel and Elijah, or will you demonize them, as already religious people do it online? Or probably there are both good and evil ET and you should CHOOSE between this or that team? Most likely most of the faithfu whom I don't want to call fanatics but who show signs of fanaticism, will say: Jesus will come in the Second Coming so we prefer to stay and die. Good job! The rescued who will meet Jesus after centuries, will not include you or your children, if that is your way of thinking and action. Pity! You could be great teachers of religion and devotion on the new planets, until the earth is restored. Because Jesus could come at anytime, that means He could come after 1 million years. Or tomorrow. Nobody knows, not even He Himself. He said that, as the Prophet of the prophets. If someone doesn't like Jesus to be a prophet, this is his own problem, and that of his fllowers. Nothing persona, but Benedict denied the prophetic sermon of Jesus shortly before Christmas 2012. SO I would rather not listen to Benedict when the time comes for MY rescue and that of MY LOVED ONES.

See that news
Paul Hellyer Claims Two ET's Are Working With The US Government! (P.H.is ex defense secretary in Canada)
www.abovetopsecret.com...

You are one of the very few people that wish for me to continue posting.

Thanks for the invitation (if directed at me), But my posting days are just about ended.

I am glad this period ends with a small sign from heaven in support of the Fatima Miracle of 1917.

However, it absolutely does NOT mean that the great disturbances are imminent. On the contrary, I believe if the big "Fatima Sun" (as you put it) was intended by God for this year, instead of three solar flares for May 13, 2013, we would have witnessed the grand manifestation of God's light already.


The truth of the matter is that no one yet knows when the prophesied events break-out. It could be 7 months, it could be 7 years, it could be 70.

Life Goes on, and on.

Certainly, it would have been much better if I spent the time in the past 4 years continually working tirelessly on spiritual matters (loving God with total abandon, kindness, patience, forgiveness, praying for enemies, etc) instead of wasting away an inordinate amount of time reading all the forums and contemplating all the prophecies.



p.s: The 4th X-flare of this year has no relevance to the Fatima sign, since the 4th flare did not happen while it remained May 13, 2013 in any part of the world.

Originally posted by Phantomfire707

I am glad this period ends with a small sign from heaven in support of the Fatima Miracle of 1917.

I certainly should not have referred to it as a "small sign." Poor choice of words. Nothing about it was small. The third flare alone "packed the energy equivalent to millions of 100-megaton hydrogen bombs”: www.washingtonpost.com...

if you have any questions or want me to comment about anything specific (regarding Fatima, apparitions, signs, or anything I have stated in the past) now would be the time to ask.

Sorry you didn't like my reply OP.

Despite my vehement disagreement with mixing Fatima and spaceship rescues, You may continue posting about Fatima to your heart's content.


If you expect money, you should not be touching Fatima in the first place.


Not happy that I diminished perception of the May 13, 2013 triple solar flare sign here ... in attempt to fend off the OP from using that sign to start a fresh round of imminent solar doomsday false alarms.


As for myself, let the next generation of Fatima "experts" take over.

Phantomfire, nice to hear you back. In fact what put me back in this forum was the election of pope Francis whom I consider Petrus Romanus by all means except for the name.

Now we have the opportunity to review Fatima in new light of predictable (not certain) physical events on our star. NASA predicted 2013 beginning as a solar max, not just ordinary 11 year max but something extraordinary. Periodically they say that and that year and flare were the biggest ever. I doubt the numbers and graphs are always the correct ones, perhaps the real levels are much higher and we are told only post factum. Second Carrington event is possible and it will fry all electronics, as EMP. Or worse. Imagine it happens on Oct 13, preceded by a number of other earthy events that OL talks about.

Our time is not lost here, although it seems so for the illiterate readers and for the paid agents. Indeed one cannot only write in forums, the life is much more than that. What I am sorry is the devote people who spend time reading anyway, are quite ignorant or what to say, have to increase their level of understanding. Otherwise they are who lose.
What questions to ask you? You'd better write whatever you think is important to be said.

Phantomfire, I think you are quite fast in your conclusions. I logged in and entered in this particular topic and read all your posts not before 1 hour ago. how do you know I didn't like your response? I think you are overcritical to yourself. Nobody knows the truth, not even me. That should be clear to all Fatima players, that nobody of them knows the truth. No Father Gruner, no Marian movement of priests. Dates have failed. Including alleged Fatima date "before the end of century". Including Don Gobi's and many others. If dates have failed of credible witnesses (let say cardinals who have read, or seers), everything could be the real one. And Fatima is not the only one.

It is not only me that connects UFO and Fatima. Browse this forum to see there are many people who do so. Mgr Balducci is an example how a hi-rank cleric could write for both Fatima and extraterrestrials, although not together. I am surprised how more people do not talk about that in the 13th year of 21st century, when your kids watch Clone Wars and more. You devote people who know the truth but who try everything possible to turn back time, you should know you are wrong. This is not the way for Christianity to survive thru its most dangerous time since the first centuries. If there is a time machine probably some of you would like to go back to the past ages, don't know.
Fantomfire, I don't write that for you, but for all devote people who will say that is wrong, and who will say rosary after rosary without much reflection. Let me say clearly, they will simply die in the Fatima mega solar event, whatever concrete form it may take. Hopefully some of their children, baptized and confirmed too, do not think like them and will choose the salvation way offered by God.