The Faith of Uncertainty.

Originally posted by bb23108

-You "On what basis do you assume that awareness is a product or result of the body-brain-mind complex? Have you firmly concluded this based on your own thorough investigation or are you simply assuming it to be the case because that is what scientific-materialism assumes?"


I already went over the reasons for my assumptions in my last reply. Was not aware before I was born. Did not exist as me before I was me. When I was born I was hardly aware, it took months for my awareness to begin taking shape, and 9 months before I was born for the mechanisms to be prepared. Im only making these assumptions based on my own thoughts and experience in my existence, and everything ive ever read and heard taken in consideration.



-You "And if you assume you are the body-mind complex, how did you conclude this? Who are you, really?"


Of course I am my mind and body. How did you conclude otherwise? I concluded this by only ever existing as my mind-body. Everything ive ever known, felt, tasted, smelled, thought, seen, done, has been via my mind-body.


Who am I really, that is a good question, I dont think anyone really knows the answer. Unless the answer is I am whoever I choose to be, and whatever I choose to be in each moment I choose it. We certainly all have this universe in common, we arrived here on different branches of our species tree. Who is an ant? who is a bee? who is you? who is me?

So I am a product of this universe, a being, with limited control, free will, but more then most of the contents of the universe. I am a brief assembly of material in time. I can think about who I am at any time for all my time, and choose what I want to do to establish who I am. But objectively, I am a human. Its absolutely amazing I have the ability to exist at all. that parts came together to allow the ability for my awareness to exist, this is the part you dont believe... you dont think awareness can be created, so you presume; that awareness must be fundamental and all that exists naturally and ever has, so then this awareness created material to trap it self in, like a million cups scooping up water out of an ocean, and then the cups becoming individual entities of awareness, and the awareness I am responsible for is some primitive primal essence that has always existed, that I am just borrowing, or there is only one awareness, and I am that awareness, and you are that awareness, but the awareness is just separated by material for now. and thats the whole oneness idea...hm I dont know, I have problems with that view, I dont think its the truth. Instead of awareness or conciousness, and making it personal like you and every human youve ever met designed and intended the universe and laws of physics to be as they are, science states that material/energy cannot be created or destroyed. Its still a confounding view.

whats your view on God, is there a master awareness thats better then the rest, or is 'God' the totality of awareness across all time? Is the awareness/awarenesses that existed a gigliionbagillionmamillion years ago still aware?

Originally posted by ImaFungi
Was not aware before I was born. Did not exist as me before I was me. When I was born I was hardly aware, it took months for my awareness to begin taking shape, and 9 months before I was born for the mechanisms to be prepared. Im only making these assumptions based on my own thoughts and experience in my existence, and everything ive ever read and heard taken in consideration.

The reason I asked again was because you are saying you were not aware back then. Or is it a matter that you simply do not remember being aware back then - and so you are now assuming you were just not aware at all?

Originally posted by ImaFungi
Of course I am my mind and body. How did you conclude otherwise? I concluded this by only ever existing as my mind-body. Everything ive ever known, felt, tasted, smelled, thought, seen, done, has been via my mind-body.

We just assume this because awareness has associated with attention at a root level in the esoteric anatomy of the body-mind, and from there, has identified with the body-mind.

But are you actually the body-mind? Our senses suggest this, but they are always changing and can be observed and objectified, so are hardly the final word on this matter.

What about thinking? Are we actually the thinker or is thinking arising as a pattern in response to various objects stimulating thought, and that process of thinking never seems to stop? We can notice we are thinking but does that mean we are the thinker? No, not at all, since we can observe and objectify the thinking process.

On and on you can look at everything arising and discover that we are not anything that can be observed or objectified. The only constant that cannot be objectified is fundamental awareness or consciousness itself - who we are, beyond the knower and object of knowing.

This is what must be discovered rather than just naively accepting we are the body-mind and carrying on this way our entire lives. Everything we do is based on this fundamental illusion that we are the body-mind. We also assume we are the body-mind partly because almost everyone else assumes this. People say it is self-evident. But is it really?

Originally posted by ImaFungi
whats your view on God, is there a master awareness thats better then the rest, or is 'God' the totality of awareness across all time? Is the awareness/awarenesses that existed a gigliionbagillionmamillion years ago still aware?

Ultimately there is only Reality - indivisible, acausal, conscious light. Everyone and everything arises in Reality as a modification of Reality's light/energy. Reality does not cause conditions nor is in charge as some kind of super-Entity or God set apart from his grand creation. Reality is indivisible, indestructible Light, Consciousness Itself.

We are not separate from Reality. but Reality or Conscious Light in our individual case is a modification of itself that we actively do in each and every moment at a most fundamental level. This activity is not typically conscious but once we see that we are actually doing this activity of associating attention with the body-mind moment to moment rather than being awareness/love-bliss, we stop it because it is the root of this false identification with the body-mind, and all of its suffering and separation.

This is a profound matter that does not bring life to an end - quite the contrary, it becomes the basis for a life based on one's inherent happiness. However, it does require real inspection of one's current circumstance altogether. It is self-evident, so no amount of arguing on my part will convince you, nor your arguing with me will convince me otherwise. Instances of this profound realization (to varying degrees) can be found in various spiritual traditions, if you are interested.

Recognition of this profundity is also available to anyone because Reality or Truth is always our actual condition regardless of what seems to be otherwise.

reply to post by bb23108


Awareness is an interesting thing! One point in the past few days while pondering, I realized that awareness in some sense/any sense, the most general sense, is the most important and valuable thing, at face value. In infinity and eternity, can we imagine anything 'meaning', mattering, known, doable, if not for the existence of awareness, and to be aware of what exists? If there were planets and stars and other realities for eternities and infinities of time but no awareness or beings (if a tree falls in the forest....) it is as if the realities do not even exist. If there was one observer of this beingless, conciousnessless eternal reality, they ought wonder how the heck and why the heck it exists.. if there is a sophisticated reality with countless aware beings among it and of it, they ought also wonder how the heck and why the heck this reality exists... but with the later, there seems to be more hope for a logical and rational answer to their longing and questioning... actually never mind, neither way is logical or rational, the existence of a reality in general, and our universe in specific is unexplainable... out of anything and everything that can exist, this does, and we are part of it..and we would never be or know if it wasnt for it...

back to what i was saying... I dont know how and why anything ever existed (literally in the first place...and before that), and I dont know why and how so much of it did, and why and how it is able to achieve the things it does... but I do know the most important and crucial and integral aspect of anything ever existing.. the bare minimum for a reason for something to exist, is for that something to be aware it is.. to know, to think, to experience, is a special and worthwhile thing.. I dont know how the universe figured out how to give us that privilege, it is truly astounding.