Tree Hugging Now Scientifically Validated

reply to post by Nevertheless


Western science is the philosophical tool that facilitates in the understanding of the materialistic world and measurable phenomena around us. It works on the assumption that the world can be divided into a subject / orientation remit and the principle of falsification.

There are many remits of knowledge that you could choose to label as non western science. Acupuncture has been used for thousands of years. The working of it not understood by western science. Does that make it any less valid. There is a chakra system running through your body you can choose to feel and activate it if you so wish.. It is not measurable. Does that make it any less valid..

Does the idea that water responds to its environment and holds a memory really that alien to you. What are you made of. What is the surface of our biosphere covered with. Have you ever looked at any of Emotes work about water responding to emotion responses.



Here is a thread I done about it if you are interested.

Scientists investigate water memory
www.abovetopsecret.com...

New research from the Aerospace Institute of the University of Stuttgart in Germany supports the theory that water has a memory—a claim that could change our whole way of looking at the world

odewire.com...




Never put all your eggs in one basket. Conventional science is helpful. It is a tool that helps us better use nature around us. It is however just a tool that builds a model of the world around. A model is always a model. It is never reality. It is impossible to scientifically prove you exist.. Does that make you less valid as a human..

Originally posted by purplemer
reply to post by Nevertheless

 

Western science is the philosophical tool

Science begun when philosophy changed from reason to fact.

It works on the assumption that the world can be divided into a subject / orientation remit and the principle of falsification.

No it does not. Science simply does not give a rats behind about things that cannot be proven.
It does not assume that the world can be divided into such things.

There are many remits of knowledge that you could choose to label as non western science. Acupuncture has been used for thousands of years.

Yes, and it has not been proven to do anything at all in particular.
However, medicine has found it to be a great tool to relieve pain through placebo.

The working of it not understood by western science.

Yes it is. See above.

Does that make it any less valid.

In medicine, no. As long as you're not trying to treat something that actually needs real treatment.

There is a chakra system running through your body you can choose to feel and activate it if you so wish.. It is not measurable. Does that make it any less valid..

I wish not to comment this, actually..

Does the idea that water responds to its environment and holds a memory really that alien to you.

Yes. Because it does not hold memory.

Here is a thread I done about it if you are interested.

Scientists investigate water memory
www.abovetopsecret.com...

New research from the Aerospace Institute of the University of Stuttgart in Germany supports the theory that water has a memory—a claim that could change our whole way of looking at the world

odewire.com...

Could you please point me to the scientific paper on this experiment? I couldn't find one.
Youtube shouldn't be the source.

reply to post by purplemer

I don't know, but I can say adamantly that everytime I play games where you can build trees and bushes I always build em. In Sim City, for example, trees make a bad city look almost pleasant.

And it's weird. We usually mow and closely cut our property. But trees grow all everywhere. Of course, we sometimes prune em or cut overhanging branches that present a hazard.

It's like we appreciate a wild thing, so long as it follows our rules and doesn't stretch too far.

When you step out into nature, it's truly wild and just goes untamed. There's definitely beauty in that. But it's hard to live in such a place. Living requires some order in day to day life.

Some people have bias in favor of flowers. Who else has noticed this???? My bias is just for bushes and trees and nature in its untamed state. I don't like to control wild things too much. But sometimes nature - despite itself - will just go in the wrong direction and you're forced to correct it. But generally I try to get myself into situations where I can reduce that possibility.

TREE POWER! No, I love nature and feel that it good to take care of your environment. I guess we all have a little hippie inside of us.

reply to post by Nevertheless


Thank you for your reply...

Science did not began when philosophy changed from reason to fact. You can say what you wish it does not make it true.. As I said Science is not based on fact. It is based on the principles of falsification. That is the disproving of theories in order to further knowledge. Is science is based of the falsification of theories. Please tell me where the facts are.?

Yes science does give a rats backside about the principles of subject / object. All science is based on this principle. Read some Bacon to Kant if you are interested. The scientist is the observer and that being observed is object. However the principles of science are fast breaking down in the world of quantum physics. That is why we are seeing an emergence of neosciences. However these will never be fully understood until we develop a new framework for science. These new sciences are showing us the limitations of our scientific methodology.

In regards to wanting a published paper on the Scientists investigate water memory I suggest the Aerospace Institute of the University of Stuttgart in Germany and request a copy. I am sure they would be happy to assist.

Originally posted by purplemer
reply to post by Nevertheless

 

Science did not began when philosophy changed from reason to fact. You can say what you wish it does not make it true..

But it did. Scientific results are only interesting if they are repeatable. Regardless of whether any reasoning around it may be true or false, the results stay the same.
Don't confuse "facts" with what is true or false, but what is observed in the set circumstances.

As I said Science is not based on fact. It is based on the principles of falsification. That is the disproving of theories in order to further knowledge. Is science is based of the falsification of theories. Please tell me where the facts are.?

It's the part in bold that is incorrect. A valid scientific theory has to be "falsifiable" for the simple fact that you cannot disprove that there is a pink elephant-ghost living under your left thumbnail.
And that's the reason why perfectly valid theories are later dismissed. It does not make the previous results less of a fact due to the theories inherent constraints.

Yes science does give a rats backside about the principles of subject / object. All science is based on this principle.

No. As I said above, science does not care about pink elephant-ghosts, as they are not valid theories and therefore not within the realm of science.

However the principles of science are fast breaking down in the world of quantum physics.

......I'm sorry.. but.. quantum physics IS science.....?
No "principles of science" are breaking down.

That is why we are seeing an emergence of neosciences.

These neosciences are emerging because people who have no clue see an opportunity to make things up, because the research in quantum mechanics is quite baffling even for the scientists themselves.
Non-scientists take the opportunity to start talking about pink ghost-elephants because there's not a good (or well-known rather) theory in place to dismiss the nonsense straight out.

However these will never be fully understood until we develop a new framework for science.

What? Why? What is missing?

These new sciences are showing us the limitations of our scientific methodology.

No, these new "sciences" are taking us back to philosophy and religion.

In regards to wanting a published paper on the Scientists investigate water memory I suggest the Aerospace Institute of the University of Stuttgart in Germany and request a copy. I am sure they would be happy to assist.

Normally, it's quite a breeze to find the paper(s). In the worst case, one can only find a reference, which then needs extra work to get it.

In this case, I can't find such a thing. Seems like nonsense might be based on a nonsense-video in this case?
I would appreciate it if you could help finding it.

Also, "Aerospace institute" of the University of Stuttgart does not seem to exist?

reply to post by purplemer


Tree huggers unite!! Interesting you brought up water too. Here is a quote from the web page sited by Theflyingweldsman:

One of the first things he told me was about tree-hugging! You probably know that around the world there are people that hug trees. Of course most of us think that it is just a hippy thing. I don't anymore because Matthew explained the science behind it. He told me a simple fact, EVERYTHING VIBRATES in the universe, molecules, water, everything. Combining this fact with the amazing properties of water, which he explained is a chameleon, it changes its vibration all of the time. He suggested that as the human body is made up of 70% of water and water is also found in trees… apparently the water vibration in the trees when you put your body next to the tree, that vibration is transmitted to the water in your body and that makes you feel better, calmer… IT'S THAT SIMPLE! And it's amazing how many things you can explain starting from this simple TRUTH. It is all about vibrations and water.

www.blindedbyscience.co.uk...

I found it in the 'about the author' section on the left of the page. I read another Thread about the properties of water on ATS, was that yours? I have a very old, very beautiful sycamore in my yard, I talk to him all the time and pat him affectionately when I walk past him. He is a handsome fellow and feels very loving to me, he has known 4 generations of my family.

reply to post by purplemer


Well as a hippy I love hugging trees.. And hugging in general... And I love plants too..!

Great find purp .... s/f for thee...

I do not need science to validate something I know and feel to be true anyway...

reply to post by Nevertheless


It matters not if you think scientific results are interesting if they are repeastable. If it is not repeateble it is not science. I clafied that in the first definton you requested from me..

Western science is the philosophical tool that facilitates in the understanding of the materialistic world and measurable phenomena around us. It works on the assumption that the world can be divided into a subject / orientation remit and the principle of falsification.

The pink elephant analogy is intresting. Now you are begining to understand and accept that science has limitation..What for example if evolution theory is a pink elephant. You cannt disprove it...

Popper claimed that, if a theory is falsifiable, then it is scientific

s Popper put it, a decision is required on the part of the scientist to accept or reject the statements that go to make up a theory or that might falsify it. At some point, the weight of the ad hoc hypotheses and disregarded falsifying observations will become so great that it becomes unreasonable to support the base theory any longer, and a decision will be made to reject it.

en.wikipedia.org...

OK and for the final time science more than gives a rats backside about the subject / object relationship. It is a building principle of science..

In philosophy of science, dualism often refers to the dichotomy between the "subject" (the observer) and the "object" (the observed). Another dualism, in Popperian philosophy of science refers to "hypothesis" and "refutation" (for example, experimental refutation). This notion also carried to Popper's political philosophy.

en.wikipedia.org...

I'm sorry.. but.. quantum physics IS science.....? No "principles of science" are breaking down.

Quantum Physics will be the end of dualism...

But how do we respond when quantum physics tells us that the solidity of an objective world is illusion? We need not rush to embrace dualism, but we can no longer claim the authority of Science for our belief that physical reality is primary and consciousness secondary. So choose your poison. The idea that the universe is just physical matter is dead. Untenable. Quantum Physics has bequeathed to us a choice of paradoxical and mystical worldviews. We don’t have to accept dualism, but if we don’t, the options may be even stranger. The greatest irony of 20th Century intellectual history may be that empiricism was carried to its logical conclusion, and it led us to the threshold of mysticism. – Josh Mitteldorf

mathforum.org...

As for finding papers.. It is not a breeze. Many papers have to be paid for..

reply to post by purplemer


The reason some tests on this is not always repeatable is because of the "eye of the observer" input in this kind of stuff. If the person doesn't believe that the energy will work, they will sabotage the results subconsciously by changing their energy to compensate. They don't even have to consciously do this. A person can emit a frequency because of their mood that drags everyone around them down. I have seen this. People want to get away from people who are in a bad mood most times. It is an energy that we can sense, and it can move people to riot or do all sort of things. The Trees cannot block this signal because it is too strong in some people. This communication between people is real, just because science says we lost it means nothing, they have motive for saying it does not exist.

reply to post by purplemer


An interesting post and SnF well deserved

As one of ATS's grubby woods-hippies (and occaisional cynic and sceptic) i'm happy to jump well out of the closet on this one and admit to being a regular tree and stone hugger - i'm positively a slag for a nice mature beech, all sinuous and spreading...and i've even shed blood for many a hawthorn too though i always exacted a price in sticks. Personally it matters little if science supports this as i simply know from experience. If the others have no interest in getting all groovy with a tree then that's cool, more choice for me

reply to post by skalla


Yep I have been a grubby wood hippy too.. Spent time at the Newbury bypass protest and other simiar events. I cannot be one anymore because now I live in a place with no trees and I agree you do not nee science to know these things but it seems in this day and age some people do...

What a fun thread to wake up to.

In my younger days I would spend all day outside frolicking with nature through the rainforests and jungles.

Nowadays, the area I live in doesn't have too many trees, although there are some right now that are blooming in the springtime that are very beautiful.

I can almost positively say I have probably hugged a tree at some point in my life.

Originally posted by Nevertheless
reply to post by purplemer

 

Please stop. This is not science.

If you mean it is not dogmatic and small minded like much science is then yes it is pursuit of knowledge wherever it leads no matter preconceived ideas of what is. Science has blind spots where the people doing science do not want to go. To go there you have to move beyond being a scientist. You will have to be a seeker of truth.

Originally posted by Nevertheless

Does that make it any less valid.

In medicine, no. As long as you're not trying to treat something that actually needs real treatment.

I'm with you on the concept of "Western Science" being some form of oxymoron, but "Western Medicine"... a great deal of the pharm drugs (chems), especially "chemo" drugs (chems), are based on plant sources (chems). Big Pharm and their FDA minions aren't in the business of legitimizing non-patentable chems, instead only chems that are patented are because they rake in the big bucks. If something isn't patentable then it almost never reaches phase 2 and especially not phase 3 trials. Instead it goes back office, they switch a molecule or 2 around, patent that, then make $10,000+ per dose.

Conflicted is me...

Sounds like a bunch of poppycok made up nonsense science, of which there is a lot of on the internet. Also, water does not have a memory...

But, as I said, I'm conflicted.

Surrounding yourself in nature does recharge me, my kids become visibly more relaxed. Happiness just oozes into you in a forrest. The colours refresh your eyes and relax tension built up in your muscles. I don't think I want science to be involved, I don't want 'feelings' to be quantified.
It's just a feeling that I yearn to have more off. (Take a look at my 'Take a Child By the Hand' thread in my sig below).

Humans are part of nature not apart from it, simians have a long history of being around trees, it stands to reason that Man would experience some kind of effect from being near.

see for yourself just go to a forest and you can feel the tranquility there.

It would appear that humans are very good at smugly thinking, in our uniquely arrogant way, that we pretty much know it all and laugh at some of the beliefs held in the past. Well I guess someone is going to have a right chuckle about us at some point in the not too distant future (that is, of course, if anyone is left to chuckle about anything!)

Wasn't that long ago when it was firmly believed that the Earth was flat. Or that the Earth was at the centre of the solar system and all the planets revolved around us.

As for water - I believe it is a bit of an enigma in the scientific world, so if we don't fully understand it, how can we be that specific about some of its properties?

As for acupuncture, it is now an officially recognised form of treatment in the UK, backed up by the GMC - because it works presumably! Ear acupuncture is a recognised treatment for and beneficial in addiction, we use it where I work.

Nevertheless - your reality sounds a bit depressing if you don't mind me saying?

Although I live in a city my garden backs on to some privately owned but cherished woodland used for community events. I have created two wildlife ponds at the bottom of the garden, the water is crystal clear, maintained by using beneficial native plants, no chemicals or pumps. I have planted some Rowan trees, Crab Apple, Kentish Cobnut and there are apple trees (the whole area used to be an orchard), plum trees, hawthorn and an elder. It is my little bit of sanctuary down there. I tend to go straight there when I get home from work and can literally feel stress drain away. I've put a lot of love into it - and I get a lot of love back.

O yes - I'm a grubby tree hugger too - ain't it great?

reply to post by Nevertheless


Man, you're being a total downer. SOMEONE needs a tree hug.

This thread is awesome, thanks op, I'm gonna go chill with my elm tree now. Pick up some dudical tree vibes.

reply to post by Psychoparrot


Hello Pyschoparrot..

Nice to hear you put some ponds in and stuff..Its the small things like that, that make a big difference..
Why do you think my reality sounds depressing...