Political Discrimination on ATS

reply to post by seagull

Originally posted by seagull
Many will disagree with this, I know.

I agree with you!

One thing in the OP I noticed is that members are accused of "silencing" other members. Man, NO ONE can silence me! Just ask those who disagree with me here. If you are "silenced" because of someone's words, that's your choice and ATS may not be the best place to hang out.

As Muse7 said, one of the reasons I come here is that so many disagree with me. That's one of the best ways to learn, and to keep myself from leaning all the way to one side and becoming the extremist that I DON'T want to be. It keeps my mind open and makes me consider the opposite viewpoint, which is invaluable! It helps me to see that both "sides" are pretty much guilty of the same actions and political maneuvers.

I do agree with the OP in that the discussions these days are pretty much juvenile and it's hard to find an actual good debate, but when I do, it makes all the BS worth it. I wish it was the way it used to be, but it's not. Most of the members I have enjoyed having real debates with are gone. And sadly, most of those who are left seem to prefer immature ad Hominem BS over informative discussion... But discrimination? I don't see it. Just because someone does their best to shut you up, doesn't mean your free speech is gone. Besides, ATS is not a free speech zone. There are certain subjects that cannot be discussed and personal attacks are not permitted. (Of course what passes for a "personal attack" is at the discretion of staff)

Being on ATS today requires a thick skin, more than any time in the past. Do a lot of good people leave because of that? Yes. It is what it is. Not what it used to be.

Good luck to the OP! Hang in there.

reply to post by VaterOrlaag


Oh, poppycock.

The "bashing" is just about split evenly between close minded liberals, and equally close minded conservatives...

Your accusations are hardly unique, those accusations come from both sides of the political spectrum...

"oh ATS is liberal heaven..." or "oh ATS is conservative heaven". Or words to that effect. Neither of which is the case. Were it so, the complaints would, seems to me, come from only one direction... They, however, don't.

Here is what I have seen since I joined in 2008:

You like Bush - You're labeled a moron
You like Obama - You're labeled a socialist
You are anti-Government - You're labeled a liberal nutjob
You stand with the Constitution - You're labeled a tea Party member
You talk about Gov't corruption, lies and deceit - You're labeled an Alex Jones/Glenn Beck supporter

If you mention to anyone outside ATS that you subscribe to ATS - You're labeled a conspiracy fruit loop

What is my point here?

My point is: Just be thankful ATS is here to allow the sharing of all information deemed "out of the box"...and that it is provided, for FREE I must add, as a forum to further truth and as a tool to bring corruption to light for all to see. And that ATS encourages and supports our freedom of speech (for however long our Gov't allows that to happen).

Political discrimination? On ATS? I'd like to see some specific examples of this discrimination your talking about.

I don't think some people understand the responsibilities and legalities one has being the owner of a forum. When you understand that the owner is responsible for the content, which means they ultimately could be sued for something you post.

I've seen it over and over again. People get very angry when a post or thread gets deleted. They never read the T&C, scream freedom of speech, cry discrimination, etc.

Although I may throw a little jab here and there, I try my best not to belittle, or be outright rude to other members on the forum no matter what they think or say. "When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser" Socrates.

Choose you words carefully, tactfully express what you want to say, but discrimination by ATS, I don't see it.

Pladuim

Originally posted by Pladuim

Although I may throw a little jab here and there, I try my best not to belittle, or be outright rude to other members on the forum no matter what they think or say. "When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser" Socrates.

Right but it's always good to have the old "paid posters" suspicion to fall back on, isn't it

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I can't believe I just stared your post.

See OP, no discrimination here.

Pladuim

Originally posted by cripmeister

Originally posted by Pladuim

Although I may throw a little jab here and there, I try my best not to belittle, or be outright rude to other members on the forum no matter what they think or say. "When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser" Socrates.

Right but it's always good to have the old "paid posters" suspicion to fall back on, isn't it

Yea, but only when the suspicion is justified.

Pladuim

reply to post by Aleister

I'm very progressive, if you want to label something as being fair and logical "progressive", and I haven't run into any discrimination.

No? Try the Social Issues and Civil Unrest forum. It's the worst there, and yes, I have much reduced my participation there after being called a socialist-Marxist-commie-fascist-Nazi-demon who supports the evil "Agenda 21." I'm a Progressive, too, openly, and we bear the BRUNT of the right-wing hatred, exaggeration and misunderstanding.

Which pov comes from the Extreme Far Right-Wingers who listen to Limbaugh, Hannity, Jones, Beck, Bachmann, Robertson, and the entire vicious lying group of them. The members who follow these sensationalist nutjobs refuse to see how they've been 'misled', despite numerous evidence that ought to dissuade a normal, intelligent human being.

No matter how many times I've tried to point out the differences and deny the allegations, the attacks keep coming in.
Not by everyone, but by a few members who haunt that forum just waiting for anyone to dare disagree with them.

S/F to the OP. Haven't got past Aleister's post yet, but I'll get caught up here in a bit.

reply to post by unb3k44n7

So, I've about seen and heard enough of the rubbish in terms of discrimination of political ideologies that are presently running biasly rampant on ATS.

To the OP and anyone else experiencing this! This is a phenomenon that affects everyone at some point. I felt like I was completely outnumbered, singled out and picked on when I first joined ATS. I’ve heard many others complain about being picked on along the way. I think it’s a matter of getting your “ATS legs” and getting a thicker skin. It was much more frustrating in the beginning for me because I wanted to reach through the screen and choke some people, and my posts reflected those intense feeling I was having. Obviously that led to many point deductions, pulled posts and mod warnings. Eventually I learned how to deal with attacks constructively. I think most people eventually figure it.

I don’t think ATS has changed at all in the short time I’ve been a member….I think I’ve changed; not my beliefs (if anything they’ve been strengthened) but the way I respond to attacks and criticism.

My advice - If it’s not your thing then maybe you should limit the time you spend in political threads. Also, next time a member says things to you that you really take offense to take a look at that member’s start date. Maybe it is that member who hasn’t gotten his/her “ATS legs” yet and is losing his/her cool! You can easily ignore that post or dissect that post and send him packing. Sometimes it takes a few thoughtful butt-whippings from more seasoned members before new members toughen up and stop acting out. I’ve had my share…I could name names!

I have a feeling that some members only come here to insult and denigrate other members with what they think are oh so clever abusive rhetoric. Is that discrimination? I also sense a subtle racial discrimination against Latinos and minorities lately; painting all under the "illegals" designation with the broad brush.

I have a thick skin but come on...it's gotten really over the top lately.

I actually take pride in being marginalized as a "people like you" but very much resent being called a "commie"
especially because I am one of the most capitalistic entrepreneurial members on the boards. I know it's just an insult by the more conservative members to try and make points in an argument but still...

I too have had posts censored imo with the all to popular "off topic" designation. They were completely on topic but must have rubbed someone's political fur in the wrong direction.

reply to post by olaru12

I actually take pride in being marginalized as a "people like you" but very much resent being called a "commie"

If you’re letting buzz words hurt your feeling then how thick is your skin…really?

Why don’t you educate those members who call you names? You should burry them with facts that they can’t dispute. Logic repels/exposes trolls.

reply to post by POXUSA


I certainly can't speak to your posts that were deemed as off topic and edited by a mod, because I can't read them, but maybe they were off topic. That thread had a specific topic: The destruction of the building and another one being built.

Going by your first post, you were interested in talking about SH being a HOAX. That was off topic.

And I wasn't speaking about the mods editing of the posts. I've seen a lot of people complain about other MEMBERS silencing them. And that's what I said.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by olaru12

 

I actually take pride in being marginalized as a "people like you" but very much resent being called a "commie"

If you’re letting buzz words hurt your feeling then how thick is your skin…really?

Why don’t you educate those members who call you names? You should burry them with facts that they can’t dispute. Logic repels/exposes trolls.

Oh yeah, It's people like you that just can't conceptualize how sensitive I really am...

reply to post by olaru12

Oh yeah, It's people like you that just can't conceptualize how sensitive I really am

I can’t speak for everyone but I’m not here to worry about cyber-feelings….I’m here to debate and discuss issues that interest me.

You have 3 choices when dealing with members who rub you the wrong way: 1) Ignore them, 2) respond with the same attitude they showed you and get post banned or, 3) Defeat them within the guidelines of T&C and send them packing. There is NOTHING more frustrating than legitimately losing an argument/debate because your opponent had more facts and knowledge than you (more prepared) and made you look childish.

reply to post by POXUSA

This is a "free" site... "Free" entertainment...at entertainment's best (imo).
I viewed the thread you linked to...saw your posts censored as "Off Topic" (so - obviously, I cannot evaluate whether I would have or would not have agreed with the Moderators' decisions)...then read your conciliatory response and the last response by the thread-author (which was almost an apology, mixed with a plea)...and, my take was/is -
Someone-else is paying the bills.
The rules (T&C's) are subject to individual &/or collaborative interpretation (as well as headaches, frustrations, not-enough-time-in-the-day, and even personal biases).
If you are censured unfairly - guess what? -- That's life! It happens.
From your post/s in the referenced thread, and your post, here...it is apparent that you hold some pretty strong opinion/s with regard to...your opinion/s.
The SH and BMB (and other) threads are extremely susceptible to derailing... You could simply allude to the possibility of a forgotten bit of information...and, in no time...the Moderators (&/or Author) are spending all their time/s trying to get the discussion back on-tract...erasing/censoring comments...giving warnings...and then - sending the entire thread to the bone-yard.
You may disagree. I may disagree. But - its a judgment call.

While I can see that what they're doing (in the example you brought forward) might be considered "discrimination"...we might also consider that "discrimination" is a necessary expenditure for the health and survival of ATS.

Originally posted by nickendres
...if it is the individual who upholds absolute tolerance in their self-governance, the magnitude of what transpires after shall be found in the labors of cooperation.

What do you mean by "absolute tolerance in their self-governance"?
Appreciated your posts.
The problem I have, however, is...every time I hear/read - "We all need to...", or "Someone needs to..."...I fear that I could take Vegas to the cleaners on the odds that - "No-one will".
"We all need to" -- is so often an open-ended plea for -- Will Someone Other Than Me PLEASE step up to the plate and hit a game/series-ending homerun?!?
Do you have a "plan" for how this might come about?
If so - does the plan involve carnage or peace rallies or civil disobedience or...something-else?

Thanks for the taking the time.

Originally posted by neformore
reply to post by VaterOrlaag

 

Your position there comes with political blinkers on and is entirely subjective.

We get a huge number of complaints about how liberal we supposedly are as well.

We can't - in the eyes of those who only choose to criticise based on their own personal politics - do anything right.

I find it interesting that people would accuse ATS of being TOO liberal.

Either way, when people go too far bashing either left or right, they should be reprimanded for it. It's not healthy to allow this garbage to manifest when Fox News/CNN/et al have message boards for their simpletons to whine on.

When the best one can to is attack their opponent without facts, but with smears, they have no argument.
I don't like seeing groups labelled with derogatory terms e.g. mindless, idiotic, pinheads. If you want anyone to consider the merit of your words you better be giving specific reasons, unless you like sounding like an opinionated buffoon.

reply to post by wildtimes


As I said, ATS as of late, no offense to mods, is a dumping ground for people with extreme right-wing ideologies.

I've sparred with a few of these folks and few if any are able to back up their spiel with rational, coherent replies. There's one in particular who posts ridiculous things and then struggles to back up those things when others challenge him. He then turns around and accuses them of being ill-informed, etc and posts a lot of links to Fox News, Infowars, etc.

You can't win on here.