My last thread... Secret of life: unconditional love for all of existence

reply to post by mysticnoon


yes

About that "presence" and "no self" story, personally, i don't see any good in denying the existence of self.

This one being, wants to live the separate self, so this is whats happening, trillions of selves are living, but its only one.

But this one being wants to live trillions of identities, so if we deny it, we are refusing the experience.

About compassion and empathy, if you cant feel what others are feeling, if you cant think what others are thinking, there is no true compassion.

It has to be trained very hard in order to grow.

Some people have so much compassion they run away from people because it hurts.
Other people want to learn it because they weren't born with a lot of it.

There is room for every experience because there is diversity, this one being wants to live a lot of things, a lot of identities, so lets live our own self, celebrate it and love it. I cant see no good in denying it but maybe some of his identities are on that denying the self game. Let it be then. Unity in diversity is the basis of tolerance and compassion.

wisdom is clarity

clarity is only won through abandoning all that has to be abandoned

any disturbance in the pond will reflect a misshaped image of what is

this includes the self

if you got your memory wiped right now, would you know what your favorite ice cream is?

no, you would have to try them again to know

the self image is only the little neurons that you have made connections with that 'reminds' YOU what you like

let go of self, and every time you find your favorite ice cream again, you will have the delight of that first realization of why it is your favorite, its intricacies in flavor and texture

in this way, we can find happiness in every moment, as we come to realize the self in every moment

the fruition of self is only found within this very moment

yet we attach, to our memories, and to the probability space of mind of future time, but in attaching, we only find suffering as the end of the road, because all is changing forever, attachment to death is all we come to know, and in that we suffer, one suffers greatly at the thought of death, whether it be of a loved one, or of self. Even the psychopath does not want to die, and this is why he would rather kill another with no thought to gain the ground he thinks he needs for survival

true happiness, and liberation from suffering, from death, is right within this very moment, and this one... and this one.... and....

reply to post by Manula


To add about compassion, compassion isnt about placing yourselves in others shoes only when theyre down, its about placing yourself in others shoes who are enjoying life as well. Knowing you are one with all, it becomes about doing what you can for others what you wiuld like being done for you. Not that youre doing it to expect a favor returned, but doing it because you are already doing it to yourself. I guess that answers my previous question about not knowing what to do.

However, this still.does not account for the fact that perception doesnt always tell the truth, and what you think makes others happy might create adverse results instead. So it is still somewhat unclear.

reply to post by preludefanguy


It doesnt make sense to me to deny the self in order to learn about it. It would seem that in denying the self, the urge to learn about it goes away as well. After all, how can you learn about something you would prefer to think didnt exist?

I prefer the route of compassion to learn about the self. Where all is the self. I can see it, but cant know it without compassion.

Originally posted by smithjustinb
reply to post by preludefanguy

 

It doesnt make sense to me to deny the self in order to learn about it. It would seem that in denying the self, the urge to learn about it goes away as well. After all, how can you learn about something you would prefer to think didnt exist?

I prefer the route of compassion to learn about the self. Where all is the self. I can see it, but cant know it without compassion.

question is, what are YOU denying? and by attaching yourself to an image of self, you are denying yourself things are you not? You are taking infinite possibility and boxing it into what you think your self image is, what your likes and dislikes are? You are then bound by those things, and you let those things become the master over you, then, are you the master of self? Or has self become the master of you? You is only the now, the choice, the veneration of the endless here and now.

When you do this, you are not denying yourself, you are liberating yourself, you are becoming freedom

What doesnt exist, is the person you think you are, what does exist is the experience you are having right now, and always now

As humans we are bound by our experience, by our senses, and they make fools of us, by us thinking that this is what must be ourselves

You can know all these things you want to know, but do not be fooled into thinking that by knowing them, you are them, there is quite a separation in reality

Knowledge is a tool, all experience in memory is knowledge

Are you the hammer that builds the house you reside in? No

By letting go of the illusion of self, you are not denying your own existence, you are clarifying it

Originally posted by preludefanguy

Originally posted by mithjustinb
reply to post by preludefanguy

It doesnt make sense to me to deny the self in order to learn about it. It would seem that in denying the self, the urge to learn about it goes away as well. After all, how can you learn about something you would prefer to think didnt exist?

I prefer the route of compassion to learn about the self. Where all is the self. I can see it, but cant know it without compassion.

question is, what are YOU denying? and by attaching yourself to an image of self, you are denying yourself things are you not? You are taking infinite possibility and boxing it into what you think your self image is, what your likes and dislikes are? You are then bound by those things, and you let those things become the master over you, then, are you the master of self? Or has self become the master of you? You is only the now, the choice, the veneration of the endless here and now.

I cant be bound or in a box if I am open. I am open through compassion.

What doesnt exist, is the person you think you are, what does exist is the experience you are having right now, and always now

As humans we are bound by our experience, by our senses, and they make fools of us, by us thinking that this is what must be ourselves

Interesting. You say the experience is real but the self is not. Hmm.

I dont believe myself to be my experience, I believe myself to be the experience and also beyond it. So theres no limit to what I can learn about me, and there is infinte room to grow.

You can know all these things you want to know, but do not be fooled into thinking that by knowing them, you are them, there is quite a separation in reality

Knowledge is a tool, all experience in memory is knowledge

Are you the hammer that builds the house you reside in? No

By letting go of the illusion of self, you are not denying your own existence, you are clarifying it

I understand your position fully. I used to believe the same and still regard it as a valid approach to unity. There are two approaches to unity. And yes, whether you know it or not, your stance is at the heart of one of those approaches. One approach considers the experience to be the totality of the self. Although you claim there is no self, you still believe "your" experience is the totality of reality. People who approach unity this way say basically what you are saying, "I am all that is as the experience created by my ego. My experience is my true self"

The other approach to unity which is equally as valid as the latter, is ,"all is self as it is". It is not what the ego wants it to be, nor necessarily what the ego believes or has created in its mind to be. It is what it is and I am it.

reply to post by smithjustinb

Originally posted by smithjustinb
I understand your position fully. I used to believe the same and still regard it as a valid approach to unity. There are two approaches to unity.

One cannot approach oneness - it is already the case - it just has not been realized by the seeming individual.
Seeking is what happens until seeking ends. It is a game oneness plays with itself.

Originally posted by smithjustinb
reply to post by preludefanguy

 

It doesnt make sense to me to deny the self in order to learn about it. It would seem that in denying the self, the urge to learn about it goes away as well. After all, how can you learn about something you would prefer to think didnt exist?

I prefer the route of compassion to learn about the self. Where all is the self. I can see it, but cant know it without compassion.

Self is another word for Mind. Deny thy mind. Your false sense of self dwells there. Your true self is immeasurably far more intelligent and all knowing than the being who is pretending to be a person.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by smithjustinb

 

Originally posted by smithjustinb
I understand your position fully. I used to believe the same and still regard it as a valid approach to unity. There are two approaches to unity.

One cannot approach oneness - it is already the case - it just has not been realized by the seeming individual.
Seeking is what happens until seeking ends. It is a game oneness plays with itself.

edit on 13-5-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

The realizing is part of the approaching. To approach unity is to learn of the self and learn the disciplines of the self.

Originally posted by Visitor2012

Originally posted by smithjustinb
reply to post by preludefanguy

 

It doesnt make sense to me to deny the self in order to learn about it. It would seem that in denying the self, the urge to learn about it goes away as well. After all, how can you learn about something you would prefer to think didnt exist?

I prefer the route of compassion to learn about the self. Where all is the self. I can see it, but cant know it without compassion.

Self is another word for Mind. Deny thy mind. Your false sense of self dwells there. Your true self is immeasurably far more intelligent and all knowing than the being who is pretending to be a person.

I will deny nothing and accept all. I have chosen my path. My mind's sense of self is knowledge that I am one with all. My mind's knowledge of self is highly limited. My mind is not separate from the self,therefore I will not deny it. My mind is a tool that only needs sharpened, not thrown away.

reply to post by smithjustinb


Of course, mind and heart, rationality and emotions, yin and yang, black and white, etc etc

The secret is to master and value both not one over another.

Originally posted by smithjustinb
reply to post by preludefanguy

 

It doesnt make sense to me to deny the self in order to learn about it. It would seem that in denying the self, the urge to learn about it goes away as well. After all, how can you learn about something you would prefer to think didnt exist?

I prefer the route of compassion to learn about the self. Where all is the self. I can see it, but cant know it without compassion.

What 'self' are you talking about is it 'yourself' or 'the Self'?
'Your' self is two. The 'Self' is one. If you are talking about 'yourself' then that is separation (duality of man). It is though you believe you have a self that you have to learn about - who is it that is learning and who is it that is being studied?
As a child words are learned and later in life the words take on a life of their own
The mind talks in words and it is known to be happening (always presently) - the talking mind is an appearance - it is moving and changing and transitory. That which hears/knows that the mind is talking is awareness. You are aware of the mind. You are aware of whatever is arising - you are awareness.
The happening happens as words that chat away and it is heard and then there appears to be someone important telling one how to behave or telling one 'I don't know to behave' - it seems like someone in there hears it and then it is believed (without question). Who are the words talking about?
Awareness is the one - it is ever present (just like you) - it just sits silently watching - it gets overlooked because it does not make an appearance.

Originally posted by smithjustinb

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by smithjustinb

 

Originally posted by smithjustinb
I understand your position fully. I used to believe the same and still regard it as a valid approach to unity. There are two approaches to unity.

One cannot approach oneness - it is already the case - it just has not been realized by the seeming individual.
Seeking is what happens until seeking ends. It is a game oneness plays with itself.

edit on 13-5-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

The realizing is part of the approaching. To approach unity is to learn of the self and learn the disciplines of the self.

Realizing is the end of the game. This is oneness right here and right now - you do not have to do anything to achieve oneness. You just have to stop believing it is somewhere, some when else.
You cannot creep up on what is already the case - this is oneness. Oneness is either seeking oneness or oneness is realized.

When one seeks, one is in movement, not at rest.

Realization is not an approach, it is fully being in complete stillness. When one is realized, there is no approaching to do.

Lets be clear on what is meant by mind/self: this is just the construct of all your mental and genetic memories. The knowledge and information that are used as a tool for creative purposes.

This is not YOU. YOU are only awareness, that through which everything is 'seen.'

You can take all the tools away, and all that is left is a space for those tools to manifest within. This sphere of infinite potential comes from nothingness. When nothingness is understood, it is not NOTHING, rather, it is formless space, from which all form can arise. There is not NOTHING. There always is... awareness.

It is true, awareness does not make itself known, that is why it is overlooked. Awareness has no desires, it only observes. It is much like a sphere, which does not push its boundaries outwards, but rather sits still, and lets all that is manifested pass through, and as it passes through, it is in focus of awareness. This is a limited view, because what is passing through, is a limited substance, when in reality, everything is passing through all of awareness. Awareness is complete.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by smithjustinb

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by smithjustinb

 

Originally posted by smithjustinb
I understand your position fully. I used to believe the same and still regard it as a valid approach to unity. There are two approaches to unity.

One cannot approach oneness - it is already the case - it just has not been realized by the seeming individual.
Seeking is what happens until seeking ends. It is a game oneness plays with itself.

edit on 13-5-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

The realizing is part of the approaching. To approach unity is to learn of the self and learn the disciplines of the self.

Realizing is the end of the game. This is oneness right here and right now - you do not have to do anything to achieve oneness. You just have to stop believing it is somewhere, some when else.
You cannot creep up on what is already the case - this is oneness. Oneness is either seeking oneness or oneness is realized.

edit on 14-5-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

The realization of unity brings an individual new knowledge of the role it plays within the system. After realization, one can assume one of two roles. An individual can interpret the implication of unity in one of two ways. Both interpretations are very closely related. They are similar, and both valid. The difference is in the direction of application of the inherent love that unity brings. Love of self and love of other self.. Pride vs. compassion.

The service to self orientation concerns itself with glorifying the individual. A service to others oriented individual concerns itself with glorifying the self through glorifying other individuals. That is the difference.

reply to post by preludefanguy


I cant say I disagree with you in that last reply. But as an individual in awareness, how you behave here effects all.

Originally posted by smithjustinb
The realization of unity brings an individual new knowledge of the role it plays within the system. After realization, one can assume one of two roles. An individual can interpret the implication of unity in one of two ways. Both interpretations are very closely related. They are similar, and both valid. The difference is in the direction of application of the inherent love that unity brings. Love of self and love of other self.. Pride vs. compassion.

The service to self orientation concerns itself with glorifying the individual. A service to others oriented individual concerns itself with glorifying the self through glorifying other individuals. That is the difference.

After realizing oneness there is no individual - individual is a concept, individual is no more than an idea arising in oneness.
There is no one who can do anything because on realization it is realized that what is happening is just happening - no one is doing it. But until it is realized there seems to be a person who can do - it is this one who struggles to do it right.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


There is someone doing it. It is you. Not the individual you knew yourself to be prior to realization, but your godself. You are doing it all. So as an individual, you can interpret your role as an individualized perceiver in two ways. The ways I mentioned already.

When you realize you are the creator, you have to decide whether or not that means the individualized mind is the creator or all is one creator. Is there one god or many gods? That is the difference between the two perceptual approaches. Is the individualized mind the creator, or is it the creation?

The way I see it, creation and creator are one. Dont hypocritically say, "there is no two" either. You yourself just mentioned that the individual is an idea,and I agree. It is an idea, a creation. But the idea also creates. It is one with the creator.

I am the creator. There are two perceptual approaches for the individualized perceiver. The individualized perceiver may just be an idea, but you are deluding yourself if you think you are not still bound and subject to its rules, or mechanics.

reply to post by smithjustinb


Dualism is the final illusion.

You say 'all' 'affect'

all is separate from something, to distinguish all, is still distinquishing
affecting can only be done by something to another

like a flower, blooming to life, the wise man leaves the dual nature of seed manifesting flower, and realizes that one was always a flower, just in a different form, a different perception of it.

as the flower blooming, and its conception by right perception and right action, we take as little as one can, and give back as much as one can

after all, we are still alive, are we not? we have not loosened the tethers of incarnation quite yet, and as a fish still in the sea, our business is to swim, but now we know the nature of phenomena and the veil is lifted, you have pierced and have seen through duality

so you come back and try to explain it in words, but it cant be explained, it has to be experienced

the best one can do is point it out and say, here is one way... maybe not your way...

but all pointing is still pointing at the moon, and the moon is just a shadow/reflection

but love and compassion are... what is left to be settled on, when the rest of the illusion is wiped away

all else is attachment, even love is a form of attachment, but its the best we can do while we are here

love in its simplest terms, is the path of least resistance to the evolution of consciousness

Is this not why a 'buddha' stays behind? for the benefit of all sentient beings? until natural death