Obedience

To whom are we obedient?

It is a question we should be able to ask ourselves and answer ourselves.

What is the extent of our obedience?

According to our obedience we are either slaves or servants.
We can hope for some change in what we have made our master,
or we can have the Eternal Master free us from our slavery.

Obedience to the self is obedience to ignorance,
because the pride employed makes us delusionally egotistical.

We may be slaves to our passions,
whose nature is insatiable.

You can eat until full but you will be hungry again.

Dreams also can enslave us.
In trying to control the future we limit ourselves,
and we become disappointed when our dreams are left unfulfilled.

But there is a Master Who employs workers
of liberation; workers of resistance; workers of peace,
to be freed and serve to free others.

God gives us more than what we need.
We need more than the needs of the body alone.

God fills the needs of our souls
and adds the missing piece to
our incomplete being.

A servant of God has an gentle spirit,
an easy conscience,
and strength unseen.

Nothing is so strong as gentleness,
nothing so gentle as real strength - Sitting Bull

One who is freed by God,
becomes like a child.
The wonderment of a child is full.

Obedience can free us as well as enslave us.

Do not forget that even the most fetid and hated man is not despised by God

God loves all and waits for the obedience of all.

Be obedient to God by loving Him.
Be holy by remaining in His Presence.

I am God Almighty. Live in My presence and be blameless. - Genesis 17:1

Peace, Love, and Purity become those who live in the presence of God.

reply to post by backcase


How do you balance obedience with liberty? Either you are fully obedient, or partially liberated. You cannot be a dog on a chain and also be a bird in flight.

reply to post by backcase


LOL!!!
Obediance, I am obediant to nobody or nothing.
Not even my wife.
I treat her the way I do and do things because I want to.
Religion was built by kings, for the kings use.
Funny thing is, billions of brainwashed people still believe the lies.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by backcase

 

How do you balance obedience with liberty? Either you are fully obedient, or partially liberated. You cannot be a dog on a chain and also be a bird in flight.

Well if I am obedient to God then I am no longer a slave to sin.
My spirit reaches heights which have no limits.

You said it yourself, "the servant is the master".

All you have to do to be obedient to God is to love Him and resist the attractive shackles of the world.

LOL if that makes sense to you. Some of my thoughts are better conveyed in diagrams than words.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


It's kind of like having to be the right shape or size to fit through a door way.

Did you ever play with those blocks where each shape matches a certain hole it can be pushed through?

It's kind of like that but the blocks are coming out of the box.

reply to post by g146541

Originally posted by g146541
Obediance, I am obediant to nobody or nothing.

Rubbish! For one, you, as the body-mind complex, are required to be obedient to the laws of nature - you are utterly submitted to your need for sustenance to continue living. You are inherently submitted to the fact of the body-mind's inevitable death.

Regardless of whether you consciously surrender to reality moment to moment or not - you are sacrificed or having to be obedient in the death process.

It is far better to learn the true meaning of this life of sacrifice or obedience to reality while one is fully alive and conscious, not just when the body-mind is dying.

reply to post by backcase

Well if I am obedient to God then I am no longer a slave to sin.
My spirit reaches heights which have no limits.

That's like saying if you're a slave to the local pimp you no longer have to worry about being hungry. Sometimes, integrity is well worth the trials it entails. You can have no self-respect without first fighting for it. And sin is nothing more than high school and college for the emotional undeveloped.

But it would appear you are afraid of taking risks and learning from your mistakes...perhaps in seeking to free yourself from sin, you have bound yourself to fear? Not a very appropriate trade off, methinks.

You said it yourself, "the servant is the master".

All you have to do to be obedient to God is to love Him and resist the attractive shackles of the world.

Says the one who is afraid to learn from his own mistakes, who is afraid to skin his knee and learn what it is to lead a life of pain. What would you say to a homeless man suffering from bronchitis and wearing a patchwork of scabbed and scarred tissues where you would have healthy unmarred skin? He knows what is important in life, but you do not because you have not earned the understanding.

To find joy, you must first know pain - and no one can read a book simply by looking at the advertisements.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Resisting is painful.

Human pain is much less than spiritual pain though. It is through knowing that you are spiritually sick that you seek He Who can heal you.

Jesus is Health.

reply to post by backcase

Resistance is pain.

Precisely. Resisting the human condition will only bring pain and suffering as you refuse to acknowledge the entirety of what you are in favor of what you would rather be, and what you would rather be is purely a product of an incomplete comprehension of what you are.

In summation, the resistance of the Judaic faith is a direct product of both failing to understand who we are and failing to accept that investigation in its totality for fear of what we may discover about ourselves.

Human pain is much less than spiritual pain though. It is through knowing that you are spiritually sick that you seek He Who can heal you.

You contemplate the ocean through a tablespoon under a microscope. You know very little of spirituality, only of what you can decided to call spirituality. I posted something about the relationship between religion and spirituality the other day, something that briefly explains my views on independence versus dependence.

Spiritualism without religion is akin to friendship without commitment. You experience a bond and a shared appreciation for existence in all of its forms. This gives you the peace of mind necessary to fully reach an understanding regarding your place in the world and the universe. That's what I call spirituality without religion. You don't worship, you merely accept and appreciate.

I find this neither cliche nor obnoxious. It gives us the levity to resist the demons of reality, the sobriety to resist the illusions of reality, and the clarity to recognize the roads of reality. From there, it's a matter of understanding ourselves and what we want in existing. There's no worship or debt or subjugation or any of that. It's doing the best with what we have to make the best of where we're at.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Excuse me for being less than tech savvy.

"Precisely. Resisting the human condition will only bring pain and suffering as you refuse to acknowledge the entirety of what you are in favor of what you would rather be, and what you would rather be is purely a product of an incomplete comprehension of what you are.

In summation, the resistance of the Judaic faith is a direct product of both failing to understand who we are and failing to accept that investigation in its totality for fear of what we may discover about ourselves. "

And according to you, who are we?

"Spiritualism without religion is akin to friendship without commitment. You experience a bond and a shared appreciation for existence in all of its forms. This gives you the peace of mind necessary to fully reach an understanding regarding your place in the world and the universe. That's what I call spirituality without religion. You don't worship, you merely accept and appreciate.

I find this neither cliche nor obnoxious. It gives us the levity to resist the demons of reality, the sobriety to resist the illusions of reality, and the clarity to recognize the roads of reality. From there, it's a matter of understanding ourselves and what we want in existing. There's no worship or debt or subjugation or any of that. It's doing the best with what we have to make the best of where we're at."

I feel that this is missing selflessness. Without selflessness, we take what we can and limit ourselves to ourselves and build reality within our own mind according to how it better appeals to ourselves.

reply to post by backcase

And according to you, who are we?

We are imperfect creatures struggling to accept the trials of incompletion, refusing to come to terms with the fact that our trials are designed to teach us the purpose of imperfection so that we may seize it instead of rebelling against it. In exploring our nature, we have unlocked nearly every possible nightmare that we are capable of, thereby experiencing firsthand the worst of our potential as a species. Now it's time to explore the best of what we can become as we embrace our imperfection.

That's as far as I've gotten.

I feel that this is missing selflessness. Without selflessness, we take what we can and limit ourselves to ourselves and build reality within our own mind according to how it better appeals to ourselves.

Hypocrisy. You disdain the very system that birthed the religion you adore.

Selflessness possesses exactly as much destructive potential as greed. Since we are physical, we must either exercise selfishness to a certain extent in order to sustain our existence, or push selflessness to the point of suicide. The selflessness that expresses itself in the system I explained is the sort of selflessness that invites you to share everything you have with everything around you. There is no greater selflessness other than death.

reply to post by backcase


SnF!!
i completely agree with the OP, i'l be following the thread..

Originally posted by bb23108
reply to post by g146541

 

Originally posted by g146541
Obediance, I am obediant to nobody or nothing.

Rubbish! For one, you, as the body-mind complex, are required to be obedient to the laws of nature - you are utterly submitted to your need for sustenance to continue living. You are inherently submitted to the fact of the body-mind's inevitable death.

Regardless of whether you consciously surrender to reality moment to moment or not - you are sacrificed or having to be obedient in the death process.

It is far better to learn the true meaning of this life of sacrifice or obedience to reality while one is fully alive and conscious, not just when the body-mind is dying.

edit on 7-5-2013 by bb23108 because: (no reason given)

I am not obediant to breathing, it just happens, really, even when I sleep it does not stop!
Some things just happen and you have no control.
If you think me wrong, hold your breath and see how far it goes before it happens again without your say.
I obey nobody and nothing, I also do not try to change the current of an ocean, some things you cannot control.

reply to post by bb23108

Rubbish! For one, you, as the body-mind complex, are required to be obedient to the laws of nature - you are utterly submitted to your need for sustenance to continue living. You are inherently submitted to the fact of the body-mind's inevitable death.

Regardless of whether you consciously surrender to reality moment to moment or not - you are sacrificed or having to be obedient in the death process.

It is far better to learn the true meaning of this life of sacrifice or obedience to reality while one is fully alive and conscious, not just when the body-mind is dying.

Why does everything have to be about allegiances in this reality? Don't you ever get tired of forcing people to take sides?

reply to post by AfterInfinity

I can't speak for others, but I have no interest forcing people to take sides. The important fact is that everyone makes choices, they choose one side or another. If I choose to believe that I am the supreme judge of my life, and that the rules of man are the only rules, I choose one side. Others choose a different side.

Your thoughts, beliefs, attitudes, appetites, put you in one camp or another. Everyone obeys their own desires, it just that some people desire one thing, and others desire something else.

My goal is to desire Truth and Love. I believe I have found it.

reply to post by charles1952


I know. We are all distinguished by our unique mixtures of tastes and interests. However, my point was that our differences in those areas should not affect how we are valued as living sentient creatures. Despite our differences, we all serve a purpose and should be valued for our potential to fulfill that purpose. Whether we are given that purpose or decide our purpose for ourselves, we should respect one another for that.

reply to post by g146541

Originally posted by g146541
I obey nobody and nothing, I also do not try to change the current of an ocean, some things you cannot control.

But you are obeying the rules of this forum, right? There are all kinds of things that you obey because of the consequences otherwise, etc. I am just saying your absolute statement of obeying nothing and nobody is incorrect. Maybe you are stating it that way for some other reason?

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
Why does everything have to be about allegiances in this reality? Don't you ever get tired of forcing people to take sides?

I'm not looking to make people take sides. In this case, I was just pointing to an error in someone's statement - because everyone obeys to one degree or another. Do you not agree with this?

reply to post by bb23108

I'm not looking to make people take sides. In this case, I was just pointing to an error in someone's statement - because everyone obeys to one degree or another. Do you not agree with this?

There's obedience, and then there's function. Obedience is having a conscious choice, and function is being designed for a particular task. Our respiratory system functions. Our hearts function. Our brain functions. But when we have a choice between two options whose difference is a matter of personal preference, it becomes free will. That's where your obedience goes down the toilet, because in matters of personal preference, we prefer to exercise our liberties as living sentient creatures.

We're people, not dogs.

An "eternal master" freeing someone from slavery is a contradiction for obvious reasons.

Obeying takes two, to obey yourself would mean that there is two of you - if you are speaking metaphorically, this is still incorrect in my opinion. Obedience to self would only be obedience to ignorance is self is perceived to be ignorant.

You say "dreams" can enslave people. I say, those without an inner vision is a slave to their surroundings.

Needs only exist when desire exist. Without a desire there cannot be a need. Most people would say we "Need' food and water, this is only true because we DESIRE to survive. No desire , no need.

Of course servants are gentle. The slaves are weak, if the slaves grew their power they would rebel against their slave-masters.