A Question For Athiests... Who Benefits From This?

Your belief is that there is no God and religion was simply made up to control the masses via brainwashing. So I'd like to share a few teachings from Christ that totally contradict your assumption. The account is from one of the only 2 authors in the Bible that actually walked with Christ... Matthew.

Righteousness
6 “Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

Charity
2 “So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

Prayer
5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

Forgiveness
14 For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

Fasting
16 “When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show others they are fasting. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 17 But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face, 18 so that it will not be obvious to others that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

My question to you is how do these teachings benefit anyone other than the person practicing them and those who are the objects of these practices?

Forgiveness and charity and any other moral values can and should be taught by the parents, not by the threat of eternal damnation. Just my opinion.

reply to post by Bone75


Jesus had some great advice. It's a shame the majority of Christians don't practice what he preached. I doubt many get as far as "love thy neighbour".

Whats the best way to sell a lie? Simply by mixing it with a dose of the truth to give it credibility. That is basically it. Look at modern day politics and business for example, which is rooted in the biblical myths. They preach good while doing bad themselves, and profiting from the work that the masses get little credit or reward from.. Its no different at all, so because the west does good as well as evil mean it is divine? Of course not, it means it is human. Just like the bible.

you assume all religious leaders actually lives their lives, and practice what the bible or any holy book says.
I am always baffled about why it is so difficult for religious people to understand atheism. they have to assign some form of "evil" to it

I just wish the Christian Jew sky God would have forgiven humanity before he decided to murder virtually its entire population by drowning them, bit hypocritical of the guy asking us to forgive people you know?

You've convinced me. I was totally unaware that 2000 years ago someone told someone something and somehow that story still persists today, unaltered, verbatim. That alone is proof of something truely divine. I'm off to church, maybe if I give them 10% of my income it will save my soul.

As I expected, the first handful of responses didn't even attempt to address the question. Who benefits from THESE practices?

Originally posted by Bone75
As I expected, the first handful of responses didn't even attempt to address the question. Who benefits from THESE practices?

What is the point of the question?

reply to post by Bone75


The individual benefits. It's selfishness at its core. My point was that moral values can be learned and accepted without confusing rhetoric present in every religion.

Originally posted by Bone75
Your belief is that there is no God and religion was simply made up to control the masses via brainwashing. So I'd like to share a few teachings from Christ that totally contradict your assumption. The account is from one of the only 2 authors in the Bible that actually walked with Christ... Matthew.

Righteousness
6 “Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

Charity
2 “So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

Prayer
5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

Forgiveness
14 For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

Fasting
16 “When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show others they are fasting. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 17 But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face, 18 so that it will not be obvious to others that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

My question to you is how do these teachings benefit anyone other than the person practicing them and those who are the objects of these practices?

First of all, quoting the Bible isn't proof of your God.

Secondly, I don't know of any atheist that objects to charity, your right to pray, or fast or personal forgiveness. I do know plenty atheists who resent the idea of "god" forgiving people who have hurt them on their behalf.

Here's a video explaining the absurdity of this logic.



When an atheist does good things, it's called altruism. Atheists don't perform charitable acts or practice forgiveness because it makes them righteous, for some reward in the "great beyond" or to avoid the punishment of some invisible deity. Morality doesn't come from religion, religious books or some imagined deity. It's born out of the necessity for survival.

When Jesus talked about prayer, I don't recall him ever defining exactly what prayer is. Is it a communion with a deity, a meditation, mantra or chant, a recitation of something some else wrote, or a plea for special consideration?

Jesus said:

John 13
And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and you shall find; knock, and it shall be opened to you:

Sounds like Jesus is bribing people with stuff and special consideration through prayerful devotion to him. Atheists simply don't believe this.

Originally posted by Bone75
As I expected, the first handful of responses didn't even attempt to address the question. Who benefits from THESE practices?

They justify their own existence. How hard is that to understand?

Religion is a cancer. It works just as cancer works. Wherever it goes it spreads its disease, infecting populations with nonsense like the above, in order to spread itself. If I give a poor man food and convince him it is the work of my church, he may join my church and help me spread my disease. A bit like a coke dealer giving you a "free sample" eh?

reply to post by Bone75


But no one follows that advice, do they? Millions of dollars in donated money goes in to televised services, missionaries sent to other countries to "spread the word" [ and let's not forget the nice suits and fancy cars for biggest, wealthiest churches ] As an atheist, I already believe in treating my fellow man with kindness, respect and just being a good person in general. I don't need some "god" to tell me that or some preacher threatening me with eternal damnation if I don't. Who benefits? Look at the wealth of the Catholic church. As with all leadership, follow the money and power.

Originally posted by Bone75
Your belief is that there is no God and religion was simply made up to control the masses via brainwashing. So I'd like to share a few teachings from Christ that totally contradict your assumption. The account is from one of the only 2 authors in the Bible that actually walked with Christ... Matthew.

Bone75,

You seem to be under the assumption that all atheists are the same and that there is some sort of atheistic doctrine of some kind. This is simply not the case. I am more than happy to discuss my beliefs with you here but before I do I wanted to clear that up. I speak for myself and myself alone and am not interested in changing your mind or to steer you to my way of thinking.

I personally am not convinced that religion, or more specifically Christianity, was "invented" to control the masses. It is also obvious to me, if we are speaking of Christ and assuming he did say what Matthew said he said, that religious leaders had used religion to control. Was this not part of his reasoning to rally against the leadership of the time ?

Penny

Originally posted by Bone75
Your belief is that there is no God and religion was simply made up to control the masses via brainwashing. So I'd like to share a few teachings from Christ that totally contradict your assumption. The account is from one of the only 2 authors in the Bible that actually walked with Christ... Matthew.

Righteousness
6 “Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

Charity
2 “So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

Prayer
5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

Forgiveness
14 For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

Fasting
16 “When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show others they are fasting. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 17 But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face, 18 so that it will not be obvious to others that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

My question to you is how do these teachings benefit anyone other than the person practicing them and those who are the objects of these practices?

These passages not the only way that the Bible teaches the way to worship and do God's work. There are other passages that say the opposite, more like 'spread the word of God far and wide.' The ones you quoted would appeal to a more introverted person like myself who doesn't feel comfortable with 'unneccesary attention' but like to contribute as much as possible.

If I had read your collection of passages back when I was a practicing Catholic I would have felt like maybe there was a bigger role for people like me and kept me around for a little while longer. I think it's just another way to cover the bases to create a system that can appeal to everybody and can give everybody a place. This would benefit their religion hugely because introveted personality types tend to be the most loyal. The only benefit to these practices are the church because they are asking people to sacrifice what they can for their cause, quietly. The person practicing this only recieves personal satisfaction for paying some imaginary debt to help get to heaven.

reply to post by Bone75

My question to you is how do these teachings benefit anyone other than the person practicing them and those who are the objects of these practices?

They benefit those who have a vested interest in making sure the flock doesn't stray too far from the shepherds. They are but a few of many tenets of the faith, meant to produce a certain type of follower. One who will walk the narrow path laid out for them. They are meant to train the Christian in practices that make them acceptable and pleasing to "God". Therefore, the greatest beneficiary of these tenets, are those in leadership of the church.

ETA: I might add, there is at least a perceived benefit to the believer, in that active practice of said tenets produces a good conscience toward "God".

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
reply to post by Bone75

 

Jesus had some great advice. It's a shame the majority of Christians don't practice what he preached. I doubt many get as far as "love thy neighbour".

I totally agree, but that's not the point of THIS discussion. If you'd like to discuss the hypocrisy practiced by those claiming to be Christians, go find another thread. Personally, I'd like to have a discussion about THESE practices in particular.

I'm asking from the perspective of someone who believes that anything is possible... God or no God.

Originally posted by Tuttle
I just wish the Christian Jew sky God would have forgiven humanity before he decided to murder virtually its entire population by drowning them, bit hypocritical of the guy asking us to forgive people you know?

well, being "god", that's the only way he could deal with them, he didn't even have the power of persuasion, the lowly human that he created, was more influential than he was. destroy 99.9% percent of everything and everybody, and warn who's left, that if they don't change their ways, he'll come back and destroy everything again......but......he really, really loves you.

Originally posted by Bone75
As I expected, the first handful of responses didn't even attempt to address the question. Who benefits from THESE practices?

I will. It benefits no one because no one does just these things. No matter what is written in biblical texts, religion wants to be in everyone's face. Religion wants to rule the world, not just the hearts of a few, quiet individuals. Religion distorts its own teachings. Religion is hate for all those that don't adhere to its particular brand of lunacy. Religion would die without money, greed, and a load of brainwashed sheep to grease the pockets of their shepherd.

If people followed just the teachings you listed, there wouldn't be a problem because no one else would know that this religion even existed.

Originally posted by Firefly_
Whats the best way to sell a lie? Simply by mixing it with a dose of the truth to give it credibility. That is basically it. Look at modern day politics and business for example, which is rooted in the biblical myths. They preach good while doing bad themselves, and profiting from the work that the masses get little credit or reward from.. Its no different at all, so because the west does good as well as evil mean it is divine? Of course not, it means it is human. Just like the bible.

I find that second line VERY intriguing. Where's this truth you refer to?