Why are they allowing this in our food?

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by Cabin

 

Sugar is sugar! Well actually it isn't as there are different types, but glucose is glucose and fructose is fructose. By and large, what we describe as sugar in food is glucose (unless using that Corn syrup which is fructose) and it matters not whether it is from a fruit directly or refined from a plant - the end product remains the same on the molecular level.

Explain to me the difference...

the difference, my dear paragon of "sanity",
between natural sugars such as fructose, and refined sugars such as sucrose
is right there under your nose in the term "refined"
it is the same difference between chewing coca leaf and "tooting"
or making a nice tea from poppies, and "shooting" up "horse"

the refining processes for sucrose are virtually the same BTW, involving sulfuric acid, among other things
and filtered through charred beef bones.
[or at least they were up until the '80's when i read about it]

these refined sugars are all highly addictive drugs.
arguments to the contrary being the same old tired justifications used by heroin addicts
to continue with their disgusting behavior, and just as credible.

reply to post by TheMagus


Comparing sugar to heroin is a prime example of why "heatlth nuts" are called "health nuts."

Originally posted by Ghost375
reply to post by TheMagus

 

Comparing sugar to heroin is a prime example of why "heatlth nuts" are called "health nuts."

edit on 4-5-2013 by Ghost375 because: (no reason given)

why don't you put your money where your mouth is,

and go "cold turkey" [or try to] hmmmmm?

your "sanity" is taken note of

Originally posted by Happy1
reply to post by lewman

 

Hienz ketchup is loaded with sugar - thank you, john kerry hienz. our new secretary of state.

his new wife and her family controls that, she is the "Hienz"....how that has anything to do with john Kerry is in your own mind

reply to post by bluloa


While I see your point, I must say that the majority of us know the sugar content. That's why some of us choose *not* to buy/eat it. But I must say there are bigger health risks in our food today then sugar, something that should cause outrage. Things that can give us cancer, cause Alzheimer's etc.

That's what we should be outraged about, because more often then not we purchase food thinking it's safe when it's not.

Originally posted by ZeroReady
...Sugar is so addictive they put it in cigarettes

...It isn't a new thing. The sugar industry has been silently running the world for the last 300 years.

Sugar is also the favorite food of Cancer and Fungus. So what is it exactly that encourages cancer to grow in the lungs, I imagine the sugar in the smoke might play a part.

Sugar and carbohydrate addiction are a HUGE problem for many and a gigantic profit for others who make tons of money off of these addictions.

They may not shove it down people's throats but media does play a HUGE part in the choices consumers make or these industries wouldn't pay BILLIONS to make their ads, urging people to purchase and CONSUME all their products. Most people do NOT realize how much sugar and actual carbohydrates they eat in a day or a week. Much of it is HIDDEN in their food choices. People need to learn what TRUE good nutrition is to make good choices, and most basic schooling only teach these subjects in boring ways no one cares to remember. People far to often believe what the package says instead of truly finding out what is an ok amount of sugar to ingest without having problems.

And I agree, the sugar industry is a VERY huge thing. Much larger than most people care to know about, unfortunately or they might make more educated choices with it's use.

Originally posted by bluloa

Nobody forces you to buy anything, but a lot of the food shown is advertised as healthy for you.

I don't care how it's advertised. The amount of sugar, in grams, is ALWAYS listed on the nutritional label. If someone can't be bothered to read that label, then I don't really have any sympathy for them.

In my childs school they have a healthy eating programme and one of the foods listed as healthy is yogurt, and yet here above its clealry the case that yogurt isnt that healthy with the large amounts of sugar it contains.

Some yogurts (types of Greek, for example) actually are fairly low in sugar. And if you're concerned about the amount of sugar in your child's lunch, pack one for them (or even better, teach them to pack their own). Again, no one is forcing you to accept the food the school is selling.

Why is this amount allowed into food, what benefit does adding or allowing high levels of sugar have in food?

It's allowed because, in moderation, it's not unhealthy. It's also allowed because consumers want it. If you eat one pack of skittles every now and then (like, once every 1-2 weeks), it's not going to have any adverse effect on your health. Can the company really be blamed if someone is eating two or three packs per day?

reply to post by InternalMedDoc


Your response is what I've come to expect from medical "professionals". A snooty attitude and a blame the victim mentality.

Is the average person actually educated as to how many grams of sugar is okay, vs. when it becomes harmful? How many people in poverty know about the dangerous, inflammatory effects of sugar in the human body? How many people believe the government hype that, if it's on the market, it's been okayed as "safe for consumption"? How many people are just tired and worn down by life, and use these foods as comfort, like a drug?

Does the average physician actually give enough of a damn to learn about nutrition and counsel their patients as to how to eat healthfully and make wise food choices....or would that cut into their bottom line? I have only had one doctor make any suggestion to me concerning nutrition, and he was from India, where food is considered medicine.

Nobody makes anybody buy anything....but come down from that ivory tower and go into a little store in the ghetto sometime, and see what they put at children's eye level, and what they put in front of people's faces at the checkout counter. There is nothing healthy to choose from in most of these stores those people frequent....certainly not at the Dollar General or the corner store, which are usually within walking distance for those who cannot afford a vehicle.

Even more affluent people are fooled by deceptive food labels.

People need to wake up to the fact that, just because it's out there for consumption, doesn't mean that it is healthy. The FDA in the United States is a joke. Even the first lady's push for nutrition is a joke, because she's pushing things like flavored yogurt, which typically has an ungodly amount of high fructose corn syrup in it.

Originally posted by FissionSurplus
blame the victim mentality.

Well, who IS to blame for what a person eats if not the person eating?

Is the average person actually educated as to how many grams of sugar is okay, vs. when it becomes harmful?

Is the average person unable to do a quick Google search or check out a nutrition text at their library?

How many people believe the government hype that, if it's on the market, it's been okayed as "safe for consumption"?

If it's on the market, it IS safe for consumption...in moderation. Americans have a problem with those last two words.

How many people are just tired and worn down by life, and use these foods as comfort, like a drug?

Again, how is that anyone's fault but the consumer? Are heroin addicts now victims of "big heroin"?

Does the average physician actually give enough of a damn to learn about nutrition and counsel their patients as to how to eat healthfully and make wise food choices....or would that cut into their bottom line?

I always counsel my patients on proper diet, especially if they are overweight or have problems that are rooted in poor nutrition. In fact, doctors are reimbursed at a higher rate for counseling like that during a visit (bumps you up from level 1 to level 2 clinical visit) so I would imagine doctors are more likely to do it, either out of duty or, failing that, money.

I have only had one doctor make any suggestion to me concerning nutrition, and he was from India, where food is considered medicine.

They also drink out of the same water source that they dump dead bodies and waste into in India Seriously, the Indus is disgusting, I've been there.

Nobody makes anybody buy anything....but come down from that ivory tower and go into a little store in the ghetto sometime, and see what they put at children's eye level, and what they put in front of people's faces at the checkout counter.

I AM in the ghetto. Ever heard of Memphis, Tennessee? I work at several of the large, inner city hospitals in Memphis, and I see what sorts of nutrition is and isn't available here. The same gas stations and corner stores that sell sugar-laden foods also sell fruit and vegetables. Nearly every single one of them. In fact, as a senior medical student a couple years ago, my friends and I started a non-profit (like, an actual 501(c)3 non-profit) that took a truck full of fresh fruits and veggies and gave them away or sold below cost to lots of neighborhoods around here to encourage consumption. Do you know how hard it is to even GIVE these foods away in the inner city?

Again, these consumers made their own choice. I can't make them eat healthier, I can only encourage it.

People need to wake up to the fact that, just because it's out there for consumption, doesn't mean that it is healthy.

No one is making the argument that any of this food is healthy, just that it's okay to eat in moderation. Even the fittest, healthiest athlete will occasionally have a candy bar. It won't harm you as long as it''s in moderation.

Originally posted by InternalMedDoc

Originally posted by FissionSurplus
blame the victim mentality.

Well, who IS to blame for what a person eats if not the person eating?

Is the average person actually educated as to how many grams of sugar is okay, vs. when it becomes harmful?

Is the average person unable to do a quick Google search or check out a nutrition text at their library?

How many people believe the government hype that, if it's on the market, it's been okayed as "safe for consumption"?

If it's on the market, it IS safe for consumption...in moderation. Americans have a problem with those last two words.

How many people are just tired and worn down by life, and use these foods as comfort, like a drug?

Again, how is that anyone's fault but the consumer? Are heroin addicts now victims of "big heroin"?

Does the average physician actually give enough of a damn to learn about nutrition and counsel their patients as to how to eat healthfully and make wise food choices....or would that cut into their bottom line?

I always counsel my patients on proper diet, especially if they are overweight or have problems that are rooted in poor nutrition. In fact, doctors are reimbursed at a higher rate for counseling like that during a visit (bumps you up from level 1 to level 2 clinical visit) so I would imagine doctors are more likely to do it, either out of duty or, failing that, money.

I have only had one doctor make any suggestion to me concerning nutrition, and he was from India, where food is considered medicine.

They also drink out of the same water source that they dump dead bodies and waste into in India Seriously, the Indus is disgusting, I've been there.

Nobody makes anybody buy anything....but come down from that ivory tower and go into a little store in the ghetto sometime, and see what they put at children's eye level, and what they put in front of people's faces at the checkout counter.

I AM in the ghetto. Ever heard of Memphis, Tennessee? I work at several of the large, inner city hospitals in Memphis, and I see what sorts of nutrition is and isn't available here. The same gas stations and corner stores that sell sugar-laden foods also sell fruit and vegetables. Nearly every single one of them. In fact, as a senior medical student a couple years ago, my friends and I started a non-profit (like, an actual 501(c)3 non-profit) that took a truck full of fresh fruits and veggies and gave them away or sold below cost to lots of neighborhoods around here to encourage consumption. Do you know how hard it is to even GIVE these foods away in the inner city?

Again, these consumers made their own choice. I can't make them eat healthier, I can only encourage it.

People need to wake up to the fact that, just because it's out there for consumption, doesn't mean that it is healthy.

No one is making the argument that any of this food is healthy, just that it's okay to eat in moderation. Even the fittest, healthiest athlete will occasionally have a candy bar. It won't harm you as long as it''s in moderation.

WHAT!!

Oh My! I am a nurse and have heard many many doctors give a 1 minute lecture on nutrition to the patient. If it is a new patient, the education always falls to the nurse. Give me break with that crap and get off your high horse. You and your mentality is what makes being a doctor now a bad term....really. Think about how you come across. Its doctors like YOU that I HATE to WORK FOR!!!

reply to post by Starwise


Amen, Starwise. Only in this country do doctors have such a "God complex". He's in a helping profession, but on this thread, he's about as helpful as a pair of concrete shoes to a drowning person.

He continues to blame people throughout the entire thread, rather than use it as an opportunity to teach and to lead.

Doc is the one who needs to be educated...in empathy.

Edit: He says he "is in the ghetto".....OMG.....biggest laugh I've had all day. Sure, he lives in the ghetto and drives a POS old rattle-trap around. Puh-LEEZE. He gets in his BMW and drives home to the nice part of Memphis, far away from those patients who seem to disgust him so much.

reply to post by stumason


While I respect your opinion I feel the need to respond to your post. The sugar in an apple has not been put through a variety of 'man-made' processes and is essentially a 'natural' sugar.

Eating a mars bar and exemplifying the sugar content in comparison to an apple - I feel that this comment/opinion could not withstand a valid argument. Again I respect your opinion but felt the inherent need to respond with additional information.

An apple - naturally formed sugar. Mars bar/any other man made example featured in the opening thread photograph - contains white sugar that is manufactured by man made processes.

Dr Weston Price, back in 1938 conducted global research and recorded his findings - Indigenous People who did not eat processed foods rarely had any dental decay. He compared his findings with Indigenous People who ate 'white man' processed foods - cavities everywhere. Processed sugar is the cause of much more than tooth decay. Eating an apple is always and has always been a healthy option - that will never change.(NB - the chemicals used by some orchardists - now that is another argument for another thread.)

Much Peace...

Not all sugars are the same:

EMPIRICAL STUDY ON LAB RATS

MORE RATS AT PRINCETON (SAME STORY DIFFERENT SOURCE)

DIABETES

ALL THINGS IN MODERATION BUT HFCS IS WORSE

reply to post by FissionSurplus


I live in the community I serve (the Frayser-Raleigh neighborhood of Memphis, look it up) and I drive a 2000 Hyundai Accent. You DO know that resident physicians are paid basically nothing, right? I work for less than minimum wage.

And what is all this stuff about me "blaming patients"? Of COURSE it's their fault for what they're eating! Just like it woudl be MY fault if I ate McDonald's every day.

I'm a freaking socialist, and you and others are going to act like I'm riding into town in my BMW, casting aspersions on my patients?

Get real. People eat junk because they like junk. It's not MY fault they eat like pigs, it's not YOUR fault they eat like pigs, it's THEIR fault. People have free will to decide what they put in their bodies, and unfortunately, lots of people choose junk food.

If it makes me a bad person for blaming an individual for what THEY CHOOSE to eat, then so be it.

Originally posted by Starwise
WHAT!!

Oh My! I am a nurse and have heard many many doctors give a 1 minute lecture on nutrition to the patient. If it is a new patient, the education always falls to the nurse. Give me break with that crap and get off your high horse. You and your mentality is what makes being a doctor now a bad term....really. Think about how you come across. Its doctors like YOU that I HATE to WORK FOR!!!

You know absolutely nothing about me or what I do as a physician. I'm in primary care, and I spend much more than 1 minute educating my patients. I even have specific slots JUST FOR "educational visits", especially for diabetics or people whose weight is hindering their life in some way.

It's nurses like you, who automatically assume doctors are all bad, that make my life harder. But, you'd rather judge people without knowing who they are, what they do, or why they do things a certain way. That's your thing, and I can't stop you from doing it, but I will certainly point out when you're being rude and judgemental.

You guys got to quit the arguing. Working together is better than cutting each other down.

reply to post by rickymouse


I would love to work together. But apparently all doctors drive BMWs, hate everyone who isn't a doctor, steal from patients to line their pocketbooks, and are generally just evil people. God forbid anyone realize we're just people, most of whom are just trying to help. Goodness me, that couldn't be true, could it?!

Originally posted by stumason
First off, you've started out with an erroneous assumption and went badly wrong from there.

Sugar, whether it comes directly from a fruit or is refined is sugar. End of. The vitamins, minerals etc do not come from the sugar, but rather the rest of the plant matter you have consumed. It is rich you take this "informed" stance yet get something so basic glaringly wrong!

It is not that simple...

Most fruits (apple) for example have rather low Glycemic index (up to 56 is considered low). lowcarbdiets.about.com...

For example, after drinking a HFCS sweetened coke, it releases about 30 calories per minute (it has around 17 teaspoons of sugar inside) , while aftering an apple it releases about 4-5 calories in a minute. The fiber content of most fruits + the extra natural content make the digestion process different from the digestion process of different "refined sugars". That is why the sugar spike usually does not happen or is much lower than the one from the "same" refined sugars.

Even as fruits have usually rather simple carbs (fructose and glucose), they do not cause sugar spikes.

Originally posted by stumason
Quite right, but your assumptions are way off. Suagr in an apple largely takes the form of (outside of cellulose) glucose. HFCS is fructose, so yes they are different. However, outside the US, HFCS is not used but rather refined cane/beet sugar which is glucose.

HFCS has also glucose, 55-45 (G&F) in an unbound form. It basically enters the bloodstream immediately after consumption, which is not good for either liver or the insulin spike. Also the body processes it differently from other sugars.

drhyman.com...

Again, quite wrong. People with Type 2 diabetes have to watch their sugar intake, be it from chocolate, sweets or fruit.
Although candy bar diet will most likely cause lots of health problems, from obesity to diabetes etc.

Most fruits are rather low-calory. At the end the weight loss happens when the daily calory intake exceeds the daily calory burning. I would have to eat about 20 apples a day in order to get my daily calories, so we can say that fruit is overally much better than other forms of sugar.

I do not know much about types of Diabetes to be honest. Although as far as I know different people with Diabetes fruits are not off the charts for them, while other sugars usually are not allowed at all by the doctors.
www.livestrong.com...://www.livestrong.com/article/96910-type-diabetes-fruit-list/

Seeing as this was from Ireland, I strongly suspect that HCFS wasn't used, as it is not popular and is largely a GMO product, so unless it is marked on the packet it contains such, then it won't be HCFS. You are getting your knickers in a twist and seem to be unable to differentiate between different sugar types, their sources and what sugar actually is.

Jebus - the reason refined sugars have a high GI is because they are concentrated. Sugar is still sugar - there is naff all difference between refined glucose and glucose you get from fruit.

All sugar is empty calories..... Come on man...

Molecularly the difference between refined sugars and sugars is not much and in a way yes, they are all empty calories. Although the sugars in fruits come with a package, you have to eat the fruit to get and after that you get also other valuable nutritional content. Although when you eat some processed product with glucose inside, the glucose just adds extra calories. When you put sugar in your coffee/tea, it just adds calories with no extra nutritional package. Just zero benefit, while different veggies and fruits have many.

Also there are differences how body processes those.

Fruits and vegetables have usually sugar in the form of fructose, which is broken down more slowly by the body than sucrose. In addition, fruits and veggies boast vitamins and minerals also have fiber to slow down the digestion of their natural sugars, which leads to more stable blood sugar levels. Besides that, different fruits have other natural chemicals inside, which make the digestion process different.

Refined sugars often tend to have some residue from the chemicals which were used when refining it.

If there is a choice between a candy bar and a fruit with same "sugary" content, the fruit is always healthier and better for weight.

Also from personal perspective, I find organic always being better than processed. The nature knows things much better and I trust it more than the companies

Originally posted by ZeroReady
It isn't a new thing. The sugar industry has been silently running the world for the last 300 years.

Damn you Big Sugar!

reply to post by Starwise

Originally posted by Starwise
Oh My! I am a nurse and have heard many many doctors give a 1 minute lecture on nutrition to the patient. If it is a new patient, the education always falls to the nurse. Give me break with that crap and get off your high horse. You and your mentality is what makes being a doctor now a bad term....really. Think about how you come across. Its doctors like YOU that I HATE to WORK FOR!!!

Actually, I think he's coming across as a perfectly reasonable and responsible person and physician. He stresses the aspect of personal choice, of free will, which I think is a very reasoned and wise approach to take. It does come down to personal choice. Then, you attack him in a pretty deplorable and unfounded way considering what was said without even really explaining what exactly it is you took issue with... what is it he's saying exactly that's pissed you off so much?