Despite all the Hype by Religion and Science, Human beings really Know nothing!

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
Human beings really now nothing around Natures true Reality!


Can a human irrefutably verify that God is real = NO
Can a human irrefutably verify that Dark matter is real = NO
Can a human irrefutably verify what true morality is = NO
Can a human irrefutably verify that the speed of light is a constant = NO
Can a human irrefutably verify the nature of physical reality = NO
Can a human irrefutably verify that Ufos dont exist = NO
Can a human irrefutably verify that time exists = NO
Can a human irrefutably verify that God is interested in Religion = NO

Im sure you get the ideas of my argument, and im sure can add your own points to expanding the list.

I cannot irrefutably verify that I am real. Such is the nature of existance. And so we ponder...

What was your point again?

Originally posted by Dragonfly79
Secretly everyone here would want to live in the Matrix.

.

edit on 5/5/2013 by Dragonfly79 because: (no reason given)

We do live in the Matrix.

I've seen the proof. However, I don't have the power to show you the proof. I don't control the Matrix.

I'm trying to figure out what the rules are, if any, that would enable a person to control events in the Matrix.

For now, the proof I have is statistical evidence. I just collect statistics on events, and analyze them, and from this I can prove that we're in the Matrix. However, since the events are all situations that I have been in personally, i.e. I am the witness to the events, it's not transferable proof to another person.

To prove that you're in the Matrix, all you need to do is pay attention to the events of which you're a part. Notice anything unusual, like a statistically improbable thing occurring more frequently than statistics would suggest, and then begin to monitor those particular things.

I like to use the "Firetruck" example. Every-time I go out, I see a Firetruck. It doesn't matter what time I go out, morning or afternoon, time of day, I have chosen at random, but the Firetruck is always there, never fails. Yet, the Firetruck is not an ordinary vehicle, it's an emergency vehicle. Therefore, my ability to randomly pick a time to go out, and still encounter the same emergency, is a clue that statistics is being violated.

By collecting this kind of information, through careful observation, you can prove mathematically, that you're in the Matrix.

As you can see, from the nature of the proof, you can't prove it for someone else. They have to make their own observations, concerning the events in their own life. For them, it might not be a Firetruck, as the main signal, but a small plane flying overhead in some fashion, etc..Each person has to observe what is unique and out of place, in his own worldly encounters.

reply to post by AthlonSavage


I can actually verify some of those in my own way. Very presumptuous you are in defining things for other people. Unless you have my brain i could never objectify those things in a way that you want to comprehend. I would have to conclude seriously that there is only the the mind and we are all part of it and we are all "it" experiencing our own unique take on the infinite possibilities. Some people just think their mind is more powerful then others because they have figured out how to use it and take advantage of ignorance.
Unfortunately to prove any of this is pointless since an illusion is what the individual decides ultimately. And there lies free will, to be or not to be.

Dragonfly79, what you said was awesome and intellectual. ^5

I like to use the "Firetruck" example. Every-time I go out, I see a Firetruck. It doesn't matter what time I go out, morning or afternoon, time of day, I have chosen at random, but the Firetruck is always there, never fails. Yet, the Firetruck is not an ordinary vehicle, it's an emergency vehicle. Therefore, my ability to randomly pick a time to go out, and still encounter the same emergency, is a clue that statistics is being violated. By collecting this kind of information, through careful observation, you can prove mathematically, that you're in the Matrix. As you can see, from the nature of the proof, you can't prove it for someone else. They have to make their own observations, concerning the events in their own life. For them, it might not be a Firetruck, as the main signal, but a small plane flying overhead in some fashion, etc..Each person has to observe what is unique and out of place, in his own worldly encounters.

This test actually would not "prove" the matrix. It would however, reveal the "probability" of the matrix.

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
Human beings really now nothing around Natures true Reality!

Lets put aside our human ego for a moment and asks ourselves applying succinctly, objective and honest thought what do we really know about the nature of reality and her truths. The truths im referring to are those everyday ones, we have learnt and being exposed to in our lifes by the ideas institutions encompassed by Religion and Science.

Can a human irrefutably verify that God is real = NO
Can a human irrefutably verify that Dark matter is real = NO
Can a human irrefutably verify what true morality is = NO
Can a human irrefutably verify that the speed of light is a constant = NO
Can a human irrefutably verify the nature of physical reality = NO
Can a human irrefutably verify that Ufos dont exist = NO
Can a human irrefutably verify that time exists = NO
Can a human irrefutably verify that God is interested in Religion = NO

Im sure you get the ideas of my argument, and im sure can add your own points to expanding the list.

This is not a long OP, as there doesnt seem a lot of point saying alot here as i ponder as I sip my Coffee on this Saturday morning. What can be verified, other than the only thing im certain of now, is this coffee is giving me the pick up i need despite its cheap taste , and that you reading this are grining at my ramble as you think up your reply?

edit on 3-5-2013 by AthlonSavage because: (no reason given)

Yes, you are on the right path. We know nothing! We have only touched, smelled, tasted, heard, and seen the shadows of all that is. You dont even know yourself.

But, you are wrong, we can know some things, in a way, all things, but you have to learn how to cut to the heart of the matter...


You are on the right path *thumbs up*

reply to post by redhorse

What was your point again?

I forgot but its something like i left my brain somewhere and am now looking for it

reply to post by AthlonSavage


you should stop looking and be content without it

Originally posted by redhorse

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
Human beings really now nothing around Natures true Reality!


Can a human irrefutably verify that God is real = NO
Can a human irrefutably verify that Dark matter is real = NO
Can a human irrefutably verify what true morality is = NO
Can a human irrefutably verify that the speed of light is a constant = NO
Can a human irrefutably verify the nature of physical reality = NO
Can a human irrefutably verify that Ufos dont exist = NO
Can a human irrefutably verify that time exists = NO
Can a human irrefutably verify that God is interested in Religion = NO

Im sure you get the ideas of my argument, and im sure can add your own points to expanding the list.

I cannot irrefutably verify that I am real. Such is the nature of existance. And so we ponder...

What was your point again?

By the very act of asking "Do I exist" you suddenly exist. That is not anything you can deny. In denying it, you prove it once more.

Now, otoh, I cannot prove that you exist.

Unless I throw you into a river, and see if you float, because I do know ducks exist - and are tasty - and they float.. and so and so monty python et cetera!

Originally posted by SQUEALER

Originally posted by Dragonfly79
Secretly everyone here would want to live in the Matrix.

.

edit on 5/5/2013 by Dragonfly79 because: (no reason given)

We do live in the Matrix.

I've seen the proof.

Impossible. It was a movie.

If some of you would like to move beyond the uncertainties of endless, sterile word debates about religion and science and move onto a higher level of personal investigation that will enable you to encounter irrefutible evidence of transcendental design, as well as the existence of a profound connection between the insights of religion and discoveries in science -

then study the research at:

smphillips.8m.com...

You will discover that some human beings know far more than sceptics and cynics both here and elsewhere would have you believe.

There is nothing to know and no one to know it.
Who can discover this?

By the very act of asking "Do I exist" you suddenly exist. That is not anything you can deny. In denying it, you prove it once more.

You're all gonna hate me for this, but I believe you can't absolutely prove your existence. Ultimately all arguments that try to prove one's own existence (including I think therefore I am) are circular, meaning they beg the question.

You guys probably aren't familiar with the three laws of logic (from propositional calculus), so let me briefly list them for you:

The law of identity: Something is what it is, and is not what it is not. For example, 3 is 3, and not 5.

The law of noncontradiction: Something cannot be both true and false at the same time, or in the same way. For example, 3 cannot be -3 at the same time, or in the same way.

The law of excluded middle: Something is either true or false, without middle ground. For example, the statement "I exist" is either true or false--not both.

All proofs, knowledge, and arguments rely on the truth of these three laws of logic. If these laws of logic weren't true, proving things would be impossible. Imagine trying to prove your own existence if it is possible to exist and not exist at the same time! (The law of noncontradiction.)

The question you need you ask yourselves, is how do you know that the laws of logic are valid? The problem is, you can't prove that the laws of logic are true. Why? Because proof itself is a usage of logic. So by trying to prove logic, you are USING LOGIC to PROVE LOGIC, which is a circular argument.

So you can't absolutely prove logic, you can only assume that it is true. This also means that you can't prove your own existence, because proving your own existence, requires logic, which is unproven.

However, your existence is not something you need to prove. It's reasonable and self evident, not requiring proof of any kind. Reasonable faith is enough.

As a side note, some eastern philosophers and quantum physicists reject the laws of logic as false. (Don't misunderstand me, I personally believe in the laws of logic.)

Please don't judge me hastily. If you still don't get it, read it again, slowly.

I'm not alone in this. See Godel's incompleteness theorems and the Munchhausen Trilemma.

reply to post by AthlonSavage


People always point to and look up to some kind of authority.
There are only these types of things: what we know or understand and what we don't know nor understand.
So, for the latter, people came up with all kinds of words: god, deity, divinity, miracle, wonder, magic, supernatural, paranormal. All these are actually natural things which are misunderstood. The invention of the gods was just for people to misunderstand who they really are and always expect some kind of external entity to deal with their own lives and responsibilities, instead of believing in their own selves. Anything can be explained with the right knowledge and anything can be attained or achieved with the right attitude and strategy/recipe. We all follow the same natural and universal laws whether we know it, like it, accept it, understand it or not.

reply to post by Dragonfly79

Originally posted by Dragonfly79

... But seriously most can't seize their own power to create or program their own Matrix because it appears too grand and humans are small creatures or it is just too silly or alienating, there are so many reasons to be found.

Emtpy words. How the heck is, for instance, a starving child in Africa supposed to "create" his/her own Matrix.

Science is all about statistics and there is actually a course offered to that point, once a person is working on a Masters in science here in the US and the equivalent anywhere in the world. A good example being Gravity Theory because testing all of reality is currently impossible with our technology.

Clearly there are things we do know such a the issue of the internal combustion engine, electricity, powered flight and in the last 150 years we have extended life expectancy by about 35 years.

Religion is a compilation of accounts presented in a factual way and referencing for the most part that our origins are divine, again proving this would require an advanced knowledge of all of reality.

Dark matter is a term to mean we are observing something we cannot ascertain directly like identifying an extra solar planet by a Stars wobble.

Based upon several pretty good studies the reason we age is related to DNA and apparent changes in the way they are held together.

Aging happens over time, one of the effects is as we age. We percentage wise, the amount of water in each cell decreases over Time.

In so far as relativity what we really have in that regard is a system of measurement which, we can apply with some degree of accuracy. A photon traveling across a void. Where the nearest mass that can affect it is millions of light years away will probably travel faster in relation to miles per second than, while it is navigating a galaxy.

With respect to UFO's again in order to prove something one must have all the information.

Any thoughts?