The first all-plastic 3D-printed gun will be available to download in ‘two weeks’

Originally posted by ManOfHart
Great find OP.

Now that it is possible to "print" any type of firearm, the only thing that is missing now is the ability to assemble atoms into molecules to form gun powder in a printable fashion.

Ah to hell with that. When it's possible to print tobacco I'll be very interested though

Kiss my ass government. You'd never see another dime of tobacco tax from me ever again.

Originally posted by Spacespider
Funny how we humans always use new technology for producing tools for destruction

EVERYBODY SING ALONG NOW..........

Futures,made of, virtual insanity,
Are always, seemed to, be governed by this love we have for,
Useless, twistings, of our new technology,
And now there is no sound,
For we all live underground...


I'd like to see someonly put 300 through an M16 with a plastic barrel, and watch, as his barrel slowely began to fall in droplets to the ground......

That's awesome. You can 'print' a gun now, lol.

Personally, I know nothing about 3d printers.

Originally posted by catt3
It is cheaper to buy a gun on the street than printing one. It cost more money to buy the printer than anyone who would try to bypass any security would have to spend. It would be cheaper to pay off someone to let you through any metal detector. It doesn't cost much for someone to let you through.

edit on 4/28/2013 by catt3 because: (no reason given)

edit on 4/28/2013 by catt3 because: (no reason given)

It might be cheaper at the moment but in a few years these types of printers are going to be cheaper. Plus they it might be cheaper for a criminal to buy a 3D printer than buy a gun on the black market. Interesting technology. People could tweek the designs.

I didn't realise you could easily pay someone off to avoid a metal detector. LOL Are those TSA dudes payable?

I was watching an episode of CSI Las Vegas with Ted Danson....they already had one they had to figure out as part of that weeks episode! As this 3D printing thing is well beyond my scope of understanding...it's still sci-fi to me, the episode scared the beejezzus out of me....as I 'inocently' thought if they did an episode on it, it must be already 'available'

Rainbows
Jane

Originally posted by jjsr420
That's awesome. You can 'print' a gun now, lol.

Personally, I know nothing about 3d printers.

It takes a brave man to admit it.....And fear not, for you are not in the darkeness alone....for i to know nothing about printing 3D guns in plastic..

The fact that we know that we dont know is a huge step towards enlightenment....i think..

Originally posted by winofiend
Well this will just make new laws, won't it ?

I mean, right now I can go see a doctor and get a prescription for something..

Or I can mix a batch of it up in the back yard.

One is legal, the other not quite so.

I don't see much difference. You can't manufacture restricted drugs, and can be arrested with intent if you're caught with precursor chemicals and a copy of the instructions from erowid. I'm guessing if someone is caught with a schematic for a printable gun and a load of 3d printable plastic.. they'll soon tie up that loop hole.

Obviously the information for anything you want is out there so making the information illegal will be a pointless endeavour - but no doubt they'll try. But being caught with the intent? Now they're just waiting for this to happen.

They can't make the information illegal. At least not in the US while the constitution still exists in it's current form (without being seriously amended.)

The schematics will remain legal, just like instructions on how to make drugs and bombs are still legal, and readily available online.

The will have to pass a good-and-proper censorship / anti-free-speech law in order to make such Information illegal. And that, folks, is not a good precedent to allow them to set.

reply to post by winofiend

Obviously the information for anything you want is out there so making the information illegal will be a pointless endeavour - but no doubt they'll try.

Hmm. Ever hear of book burnings? The Library of Alexandria? Cultures that restrict social exposures, ban reading?

Oh yeah they try.

Originally posted by winofiend
Well this will just make new laws, won't it ?

I mean, right now I can go see a doctor and get a prescription for something..

Or I can mix a batch of it up in the back yard.

One is legal, the other not quite so.

I don't see much difference. You can't manufacture restricted drugs, and can be arrested with intent if you're caught with precursor chemicals and a copy of the instructions from erowid. I'm guessing if someone is caught with a schematic for a printable gun and a load of 3d printable plastic.. they'll soon tie up that loop hole.

Obviously the information for anything you want is out there so making the information illegal will be a pointless endeavour - but no doubt they'll try. But being caught with the intent? Now they're just waiting for this to happen.

It is perfectly legal to manufacture a firearm. No FFL required.

Just to repeat in bold and large letters so that it sinks in to everyone's heads, I repeat:

It is perfectly legal to manufacture a firearm. No FFL required.

I think many of you are underestimating the strength of ABS plastic. You aren't going to want to shoot a .45 out of it, but it would probably handle .22 with no problem.

reply to post by winofiend

Well this will just make new laws, won't it ?

exactly
one can only imagine how broad reaching to boot.

Originally posted by rickymouse
So, why doesn't homeland security just erase these sites that allow anyone to make a weapon. They could get rid of all the links that show people how to make bombs also. Information on printing a handgun could give every criminal a throw away gun. Information on how to build a pressure cooker bomb doesn't need to be on the net. I think Homeland Security is letting these things balloon so they can use this stuff as precedence to shut down all the controversial sites in the near future. They could erase these dangerous sites, kids will be printing guns.

These sites are protected by the 1st amendment is the first problem.

Other problems most of these sites are outside the US.

The last problem is removing these sites in the US will not deter terrorist because because they would only download the information to a flash drive and carry it into the US or mail it to the US as most is on the international internet.

reply to post by cmdrkeenkid


Actually no building your own gun is NOT completely or even PARTIALLY illegal!!!

I do so wish people, no matter how well meaning, would deign to educate themselves on the topic of firearms and firearms law before professing knowledge on the internet!!

Keen honestly I am surprised at your post, I expected better from you, especially considering your citation from ATF.gov actually refutes your building your own gun is mostly illegal assertion!

For the record, Yes you can build your own firearms!

No you do not have to put a serial number on them or register them with anyone in most free states!

The second you decide to sell one of these homebuilt firearms however you MUST serialize them and have the transfer go through a licensed gun dealer, at which point any buyer must submit to standard background checks and etc, and the gun is now officially in the system with a duly registered ATF form 4473 on file with the FFL who did the transfer.

You can even build yourself semi automatic Ak's AR;s and other MODERN SPORTING RIFLES (Not to be confused with assault weapons which the only true definition of is an intermediate cartridge firing SELECTIVE FIRE rifle btw which you are also legally allowed to buy in most states however it requires either having a valid federal firearms license or buying a registered pre 1986 manufacture machine gun on an ATF form 4 transaction. However by going down either of these paths you effectively surrender your 4th amendment rights and must jump through many hoops including notifying local law enforcement of your intent to own them and gettign their approval! On a side note only 2 murders have been committed with legally owned machine guns in the 80+ years this system has been in place, and one of those was committed by an off duty cop moonlighting as a hitman!)

Now If you do decide to build a modern sporting rifle you must comply with section 922r which states only so many parts of the firearm may be foreign made! This means essentially that you can buy a parts kit of imported parts, throw away or do not use certain parts instead substituting them for american made copies of the part, and build or buy a receiver (which IS the weapon as far as the federal government is concerned).

The only caveats to this law is you MUST follow existing rules and mandates I.e no building anything in a configuration that would be illegal for a manufacturer to sell without an ATF form 4 or other specialized transfer! In other words you cannot build your own unregistered machine guns, short barreled shotguns, short barreled rifles, suppressors, AOW's, or destructive devices without filing all relevant paperwork and going through a registration process with the federal government. This is to prevent circumvention of the National Firearms Act of 1934, Other than that though you are completely legal to build semi automatic Ak's, AR's, G3's, Galil's, FN fal's, and whatever else your heart desires without registering them in any way shape or form with federal law enforcement as long as you follow existing rules such as section 922r and are legally allowed to possess firearms!

As to defense distributed pushing an all 3d printed pistol... I highly question the wisdom of this move and further I question their motives and motivations behind doing this! There are already laws on the books regarding building hard to detect firearms, although honestly the metallic firing pin and use of standard metallic cased ammunition invalidates any advantage you would gain by building a plastic gun anyway!

Realistically though I feel like the people at defense distributed may not be a friend of the second amendment, and further I feel their time could be much better spent by instead putting their focus into helping people manufacture more conventional and high quality firearms and accessories at home using the full spectrum of desktop manufacturing technology available.

As far as all of the incredibly stupid, short sighted, naive, frightening, and downright FREEDOM HATING talk about banning the trade or distribution of firearms blueprints and the like.... all I can say to that is I am truly shocked and disappointed at the ignorance and willful assimilation of blatantly malignant propaganda it indicates is becoming pervasive among a group that I used to laud for it's free thinking nature!

Further, just something to think about... In business it's UNIVERSALLY accepted that monopolies lead to abuses and malfeasance, so how would allowing governments and Law enforcement a MONOPOLY on deadly force lead to anything different?

Great info for those that didn't already know it is perfectly legal to build your own gun, provided you follow a few rules...

But this bold part below is something that I'm not sure is correct:

Originally posted by roguetechie
reply to post by cmdrkeenkid

 

The second you decide to sell one of these homebuilt firearms however you MUST serialize them and have the transfer go through a licensed gun dealer, at which point any buyer must submit to standard background checks and etc, and the gun is now officially in the system with a duly registered ATF form 4473 on file with the FFL who did the transfer.

Some states may require this, but as far as I know, there is no federal requirement for the transfer to go through an FFL. There is no special category for home built firearms that specifies they must go through an FFL for transfer, just they have to be serialized... It's not a bad idea, but I don't think it is required.

While in theory... you might could get away with it here or there passing off homebrews that you stamp your own serial on.... you DO NOT I repeat DO NOT wish to get caught doing this even ONCE!!

If you read the laws closely, which i have, it will become readily apparent to you that while building your own firearm from parts kits and a receiver that is up to 80% finished at the time you acquire it is perfectly legal (and i encourage ALL firearms enthusiasts to do at least one of these builds! Feel free to u2u me for resources on how to do one of these builds in a cost effective manner at any time! I can help you find everything from your parts to renting tools and go no go gauges to provide you with loads of resources on proper construction for most common firearms!!) the second you sell or even give one of these home built weapons away you enter a legal gray area that could very easily burn you very badly! ATF itself and those in the home build community who understand firearms law will tell you that it's a very bad idea to sell one of these rifles without getting it into the pipeline through a legal gun dealer/ manufacturer.

I mean if you give one to your brother in law that's one thing... but the second you start putting these online or in the local nickel ad's or even selling them off to guys at your fave shooting spot you are in fact illegally dealing undocumented firearms which carries very stiff penalties!

As a side note I am not giving this advice from an academic standpoint or things i heard from a friend of a friend. I have been active in the home building community for quite a while, and have made the time to confirm not only my local PD's stance on the issue but also have spoken to very helpful people at ATF field offices in a couple different states I have lived in! So whether or not it's "technically" a grey area, The ATF does not consider it one!

Originally posted by roguetechie
While in theory... you might could get away with it here or there passing off homebrews that you stamp your own serial on.... you DO NOT I repeat DO NOT wish to get caught doing this even ONCE!!

If you read the laws closely, which i have, it will become readily apparent to you that while building your own firearm from parts kits and a receiver that is up to 80% finished at the time you acquire it is perfectly legal (and i encourage ALL firearms enthusiasts to do at least one of these builds! Feel free to u2u me for resources on how to do one of these builds in a cost effective manner at any time! I can help you find everything from your parts to renting tools and go no go gauges to provide you with loads of resources on proper construction for most common firearms!!) the second you sell or even give one of these home built weapons away you enter a legal gray area that could very easily burn you very badly! ATF itself and those in the home build community who understand firearms law will tell you that it's a very bad idea to sell one of these rifles without getting it into the pipeline through a legal gun dealer/ manufacturer.

I mean if you give one to your brother in law that's one thing... but the second you start putting these online or in the local nickel ad's or even selling them off to guys at your fave shooting spot you are in fact illegally dealing undocumented firearms which carries very stiff penalties!

As a side note I am not giving this advice from an academic standpoint or things i heard from a friend of a friend. I have been active in the home building community for quite a while, and have made the time to confirm not only my local PD's stance on the issue but also have spoken to very helpful people at ATF field offices in a couple different states I have lived in! So whether or not it's "technically" a grey area, The ATF does not consider it one!

Good to know, I've just never heard of this before. I can imagine that if you sold several home build firearms (especially in a short time frame) the ATF would take issue with it and come down hard on you if they were documented or not... Do you have specific guidance from the applicable law/ATF that you can link to here? Or is just one of those unwritten rules?

Originally posted by cmdrkeenkid
I'm pretty sure that building your own firearm is already illegal, and has been since at least the late 1960s. Here is a snippet from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives Firearms FAQ:

Q: Does the GCA prohibit anyone from making a handgun, shotgun or rifle?

With certain exceptions a firearm may be made by a non-licensee provided it is not for sale and the maker is not prohibited from possessing firearms. However, a person is prohibited from assembling a non-sporting semi-automatic rifle or non-sporting shotgun from imported parts. In addition, the making of an NFA firearm requires a tax payment and approval by ATF. An application to make a machine gun will not be approved unless documentation is submitted showing that the firearm is being made for a Federal or State agency.

[18 U.S.C. 922(o) and (r), 26 U.S.C. 5822, 27 CFR 478.39, 479.62 and 479.105]

According to your own link and others I have looked up for other threads it is perfectly legal to make your own weapons as long as they don't violate state/federal laws and you are legally able to possess those firearms. The only thing that makes it illegal is to sell them to a 3rd party or make illegal arms. Anyone with the right equipment can make all the "assault weapons" they want as long as they don't try to sell them to others. The ATF is very clear on that.

I especially wouldn't even trust a plastic barrel.

I totally agree with you there. I wouldn't trust a plastic barrel for a single round, let alone the multiple that a regular barrel is rated for. Different parts of a gun plastic would work fine, or even enhance the total weight but the barrel not so much. That's why I have a hard time believing DefDist actually made a mostly complete plastic gun.

reply to post by ANNED


Keeping it out of the hands of people who are terrorists is almost impossible. Keeping a pressure cooker bomb out of the hands of your teenage son who might get mad at people in school someday is what I would like to see. Every kid gets mad once in a while, having a bomb you built from information on the net can cause problems when you are mad. The government monitors these bomb making sites to see if they can find a potential problem, maybe if they just shut down sites on bomb making it would be better than picking up the pieces afterwards. Building a bomb and desiring to know how gunpowder was originally made is different.

I think that the government is trying to get sentiment on their side by allowing all these severly radical sites to exist so they can eventually seize control and shut down what ever site is questionable in the future by using another tactic "for the good of the people" to justify it. I like ATS and wouldn't want severely radical sites elsewhere to cause it's demise.

Originally posted by Pinke
Is like fighting a hydra.

LOL I like the comparison. Because I totally know what fighting a hydra is like

Originally posted by rickymouse
reply to post by ANNED

 

Keeping it out of the hands of people who are terrorists is almost impossible. Keeping a pressure cooker bomb out of the hands of your teenage son who might get mad at people in school someday is what I would like to see. Every kid gets mad once in a while, having a bomb you built from information on the net can cause problems when you are mad. The government monitors these bomb making sites to see if they can find a potential problem, maybe if they just shut down sites on bomb making it would be better than picking up the pieces afterwards. Building a bomb and desiring to know how gunpowder was originally made is different.

I think that the government is trying to get sentiment on their side by allowing all these severly radical sites to exist so they can eventually seize control and shut down what ever site is questionable in the future by using another tactic "for the good of the people" to justify it. I like ATS and wouldn't want severely radical sites elsewhere to cause it's demise.

People don't build bombs when they are "mad", and I hate to break it to you but you can go buy a book on explosives at any bookstore. That pesky 1st amendment thing would get in the way of what you are proposing. I can assure you that "picking up the pieces" after someone builds a bomb and detonates it and kills a bunch of people is a LOT easier than "picking up the pieces" after allowing the government to censor information from the internet because it can be used to make a bomb.