Study: 65 Percent Of Coal Plants In Danger Of Closure

I'm not going to get sucked into the pointless pissing contest brewing here - just let the political extremists "debate" themselves to sleep with all the strawmen, logical fallacies, non-sequiturs they can muster against renewables. Let's all throw good ideas and sustainability out the window in the name of upholding some dinosaur ideology that does nothing for society but allow a bunch of rich old white men to get richer


But for those of you actually interested in denying ignorance, separating facts from political propaganda, and learning about all the exciting rapid developments in renewable energy technology and feasibility - I'll leave some links and resources:

1. Solar Energy has recently crossed the threshold for producing more electricity than it uses, and by 2020 it will have repaid it's entire energy debt, and become a truly clean, renewable resource moving forward:

Solar Panels Now Make More Electricity Than They Use


2. Renewable Energy is now CHEAPER than new Coal & Gas utilities in Australia:

Renewables now cheaper than coal and gas in Australia


3. Unsubsidized Solar has already reached grid parity in India and Italy, and more countries are to follow in 2014:

Solar Report Stunner: Unsubsidized ‘Grid Parity Has Been Reached In India’, Italy–With More Countries Coming in 2014


4. Not only are renewables directly bringing in jobs to places like America's heartland, they are also attracting other high-profile businesses who have committed to being part of the solution rather than the problem:

How wind energy helped Iowa attract Facebook’s new data center


5. There are a lot of great ideas for storing and smoothing intermittent renewable power that go way beyond expensive and resource-intensive batteries. This includes systems like Compressed Air Energy Storage, Molten Salt thermal energy storage, pumping water up to hydro reservoirs during periods of excess and draining them when needed, utilizing smart grids that do things like use plugged in electric vehicles as a backup network for fluctuations in demand, etc. Many more awesome concepts that will only expand with increased R & D:

Grid Energy Storage Wikipedia


For some very edutaining videos on all this, check out this great youtube channel:





We CAN make this work, and we will. There are of course certain forces of the establishment and social sticks in the mud who want to do everything they can to prevent it, because a sustainable future means the end of their Ponzi scheme looting "economy" - but this is all coming like a freight train now, and as the saying goes: "no army can stop an idea whose time has come."


So with that in mind though - for specific examples how some sheeples are being trained like barking seals to stand in front of this freight train with only fear and ignorance, rather than hopping aboard with courage, ambition and resolve, see some of my previous ATS threads here:

FOX News Talking Out Of Their You-Know-What On Solar Energy
Here's 100% Proof That FOX News Are Straight Up Lying, Corporate Shills.

From researching and writing those threads I can see the vast majority of negative opinions in this one have been spoonfed here by these same stooges of the establishment.

But okay, whatever - now back to your regularly scheduled politically brainwashed groupthink and irrelevant bickering...

reply to post by mc_squared


Feel free to not get sucked up and then retire from the discussion, but I can tell you first hand that there's all sorts of willingness to look at new technology among people in the industry, especially if it is economical, and none has panned out yet.

Secondly, if new technology reveals that power can be generated from renewables but it costs a penny more than the traditional methods, it's ultimately up to the customer/consumer to decide whether or not to take that direction. So as you get all pissy about the industry and start pointing your finger at the industry leaders, you really need to be canvassing the consumers and changing their minds because ultimately they are the ones who will decide.

reply to post by lynxpilot


Well I'll gladly respond to anyone who can make a constructive case, so I'll say I agree with you and I disagree with you.

I disagree with you because a proper, pragmatic solution is not simply in the consumers' hands here. That's because in its infancy this will be more expensive than the old fossil-fuel based paradigm. There's no way around that. It's going up against something that has been embedded as an integral part of our (sham) economy for over 100 years now, and until the infrastructure is in place to make it compete on a level playing field someone is going to have to bite the bullet to pay for that.

The old capitalist model of having wealthy investors bite that bullet in the name of collecting profits down the road doesn't apply very well here - because the whole thing about a distributed, renewable energy based economy is that it ultimately creates more wealth for the people using it rather than the people controlling it. Those fine folks of the establishment ("industry leaders" as you call them - I prefer something more like "monopolizing plutocrats") obviously would rather have a centralized, finite based system that they can truly own - and thus keep you and I eternally chained to.

That's why we do need the political will and government action to get the ball rolling and make this work properly. That's how it's been so successful in Germany. I've pointed this particular article out in my threads before. There is an excerpt here that sums up the whole situation in a nutshell:

Twenty-five percent of Germany's electricity now comes from solar, wind and biomass. A third of the world's installed solar capacity is found in Germany, a nation that gets roughly the same amount of sunlight as Alaska. A whopping 65 percent of the country's total renewable power capacity is now owned by individuals, cooperatives and communities, leaving Germany's once all-powerful utilities with just a sliver (6.5 percent) of this burgeoning sector.

^^ That's why the conservative/big business part of the establishment hates it so much. It has nothing to do with overall cost or government involvement. It simply has to do with the fact that, at the end of the day, it represents more money and freedom for us common people, and less for them ^^

reply to post by lynxpilot


...
But now I also agree with you because I am a conspiracy theorist and a cynic, and I simply have no faith in anyone from our corrupt, crony capitalist political system - left or right - actually doing anything about this for the good of said common people.

That's why ultimately it does have to come down to a smart, forward-thinking consumer base to make this happen. The problem is the "smart, forward-thinking" part. People need to be informed enough to see the bigger picture and understand their role as the investors here. To make small sacrifices now in the name of more rewarding economic and environmental benefits down the road.

But that's also why I'm so jaded reading the typical brainwashed dialogue around here.

I mean first of all this is a conspiracy website, and this is one of the most obvious, self-evident conspiracies out there. It isn't just the usual tin-foil fluff: everyone understands why oil companies and the like have a vested interest in suppressing alternative and renewable technologies.

We've already seen it happen in the way they totally snuffed out electric vehicles in California in the 90's for example. Today they do it through more subversive methods such as funding climate change denial and pushing out all sorts of inaccurate and hyperbolic propaganda about renewable energy, mainly through right wing media.

But rather than seeing through this totally obvious bullsh**, it seems many supposed conspiracy theorists around here are intent on completely buying into it instead, just because on a superficial level it appeals to their conservative ideology.

It's ridiculous - many of the supposedly "anti-government" members around here might as well be conservative politicians themselves, the way they regurgitate the exact same mindless rhetoric these crony capitalist hacks do in Washington, or in front of a camera.

"it's too expensive", "it can never work without subsidies", "it will cost jobs and destroy the economy" yaddi yadda...

The point of my post above was to in fact canvass consumers, and simply show that while these political stooges are standing around spewing their BS - real world examples are already revealing it can be cost-effective, it does work without subsidies, and it's creating jobs and boosting the economy.

Our economy that is, not theirs.

So, point being is I would LOVE to see this be a truly free market, consumer-initiated smack down on the establishment.

But to do that, to avoid the need for "big government" involvement, we need an informed, enterprising consumer base willing to look past their own need for instant gratification and see the bigger benefits for everyone down the road.

But we can't do that with the typical vapid, stubborn and self-centered masses who simply think whatever they're told to think, and are automatically conditioned by fear and ignorance to poo-poo over anything that might actually lead to their own freedom.

That's the conundrum.

If it's all about money, then unfortunately we need the big bad gubbermint to get involved. If it's about a greater good (both for individuals, society, public health, the environment, etc) then people need to honestly weigh that out against the money thing. Either way though - the conservative crank fest isn't helping any, is all.