Highway patrol gave feds Missouri weapon permits data

JEFFERSON CITY – The Missouri State Highway Patrol has twice turned over the entire list of Missouri concealed weapon permit holders to federal authorities, most recently in January, Sen. Kurt Schaefer said Wednesday.

Questioning in the Senate Appropriations Committee revealed that on two occasions, in November 2011 and again in January, the patrol asked for and received the full list from the state Division of Motor Vehicle and Driver Licensing. Schaefer later met in his office with Col. Ron Replogle, superintendent of the patrol.

So, don't want to register your firearms? The police will just turn over your permit data to the authorities instead. So keep thinking that they will never pass a registry system, they will never take your guns, you are paranoid. Your background check data will never affect your right to bear arms if you are a law abiding citizen, your doctors won't spy on you to find a way to collect incentives, you are delusional.

Just another example to add to the growing list of other infringements of rights, and privacy. Not much to say here, they did it 2 times, why wouldn't they do it again? How many other states have been giving up all this data? If they don't have a database set up by now, then they sure will in another year or so.

I expect the "Well what's wrong with this?" crowd, and I will just say to you, I guess you don't really like freedom and privacy after all. There is more to this than we are being told by Big Bro.

Sourc e

It's amusing to see people get uppity over proposed bills right now that may or may not include or lead to registration when defacto registration has been going on unabated nationwide for the past 60 or so years.

National Tracing Center
eTrace
4473 kept for 20 years

Toss in every state that issues "permits" or requires FOID type cards and national registry has to be up into 80% at least.

Gun owners are standing in a burning house yelling at a kid for playing with matches.

Quit defending against what may come and start fighting back against what already is.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
It's amusing to see people get uppity over proposed bills right now that may or may not include or lead to registration when defacto registration has been going on unabated nationwide for the past 60 or so years.

National Tracing Center
eTrace
4473 kept for 20 years

Toss in every state that issues "permits" or requires FOID type cards and national registry has to be up into 80% at least.

Gun owners are standing in a burning house yelling at a kid for playing with matches.

Quit defending against what may come and start fighting back against what already is.

You are right, and I agree they have been doing this for ages, the people that matter, and the people who really care are doing their part for sure, but it's definitely up to the people to voice this directly to their handlers.

This is a system based on Guilty until proven Innocent. The feds amass all of this data to use against people in THEIR court of law. Thanks for the reply, good insight.

I believe it's very important to note something. I live in Southern Missouri. I hold a CCW permit in this state after going through the required steps to get it. The CCW permit information is accessible by the public if you know where and how to ask for it. Everyone who applies for a permit knows this or SHOULD know it, if they do their due dilligence.

Missouri has *NO* mechanism or means to register a firearm. Period. End of story. If you sell one or buy one, it isn't simply that no requirement exists. There is literally no system in place. There used to be. My first handgun was purchased only after meeting with the small county Sheriff personally and receiving a pistol permit for that specific gun in that specific purchase.

A good number of years ago, that was all dropped in favor of going with nothing but the Federal NICS check which is what we have in this state today. There is no state or local side of it. I'd had to legally check this out when my Father died I inherited a couple dozen firearms, to insure I was legally distributing them. (Probate isn't the place for assumptions on anything). It was confirmed by the Sheriff's Office in 2011 that they scrapped the whole registration system those years ago.

Even if I had wanted to, there was no one to register a sale with. They strongly recommended I get a sales receipt and photocopy of the buyers State ID card (Which I do on all weapons sales I've done over the years for general principle) but that's it.

The idea that the feds have any clue who has a gun and who doesn't in THIS state is hilarious. It isn't who DOES... It's WHO DOESN'T.

This is a state where you can carry a loaded gun ..without permit.. in your vehicle any time you feel like it. Handgun or Rifle (seeing rifles in a window rack wasn't THAT uncommon until crime rates started getting real). Collections of a half dozen to a dozen firearms of all types aren't strange here ...It's strange if you don't have something along those lines if you're long established in your home with family and such (As opposed to transient renters or college students, for instance.. They may only have a couple )

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Well said. I also live in southeast Missouri and just acquired my CCW. I have been carrying loaded in my car. It is sad though that if I drive just across the river to Illinois I have to leave my gun at home. God forbid if a person wants to protect themselves in Illinois, they are such a firearm friendly state


Raist

The United States government will never confiscate your weapon. There are over 300 million loose fire arms in the United States. It would literally take an army going house to house to confiscate them. Moreover, what would start out as a confiscation would almost immediately turn into a civil war since gun owners find the "cold dead hand" philosophy of gun ownership very attractive. Modern means of communication would spread the news of the confiscation attempt. Gun owners would ban together in small guerrilla cells to ambush U.S. forces. This civil war would lead to United States government KIA numbers on the order of those of Korea or Vietnam. As this civil war raged we would become as Syria today.

There is no U.S. government policy purpose worth the pain that would result from an attempted gun confiscation.

I know people (especially people here) talk about UN Agenda 21. I have been alive for most the time the UN has existed and I am still awaiting their arrival at anything resembling competence. What is more, the UN doesn't have its own independent armed force or intelligence service. Why they have ever been taken and are now considered a menace is a mystery.

The government does not need your guns to manage you. If rumors of "dark program" mind control research are true (and we know there was a real MK/ULTRA mind control program during the Cold War) then techniques of mental manipulation may already exist that allow to keep your gun and yet be effectively managed.

Sorry to disappoint but you are in no danger of losing your guns. Your mind maybe but not your guns.

Originally posted by lunatux

...

Sorry to disappoint but you are in no danger of losing your guns. Your mind maybe but not your guns.

Boy, am I relieved....

Some updates on this issue -

Gov. Nixon denied state sent concealed weapons info to feds; Highway Patrol head admitted it soon afterwards

This should be interesting... While Gov. Nixon is a Democrat, he supports individual gun rights.

Republicans in the State Government are calling on the head of the Highway Patrol to be fired over this incident. Also, MSHP is claiming that while the list was turned over, on 2 separate occasions, the group who received it deleted it.

It was turned over to fraud investigators from the social security administration. They were looking for people who were claiming social security benefits based on a mental illness to see if those people had concealed carry permits (mental issues is a disqualifier under MO law).

I will wager, before this is over with, the head of Highway Patrol will retire, the mid levels who released the info will be disciplined, if not fired for violating departmental policy, and we will see lawsuits.

Originally posted by Raist
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

Well said. I also live in southeast Missouri and just acquired my CCW. I have been carrying loaded in my car. It is sad though that if I drive just across the river to Illinois I have to leave my gun at home. God forbid if a person wants to protect themselves in Illinois, they are such a firearm friendly state

Raist

18 USC 44 - Firearms

Peaceable travel comes to mind....

here is the Federal standard for firearm travel across state lines.

GOP senators press Mo. driver's license agency to stop collecting documents

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. -- Some Missouri senators are pressing the state's driver's license agency to stop collecting documents from people with concealed gun permits. But the head of the agency said Wednesday he's reluctant to halt the practice.

Since December, clerks in Missouri's local license offices have been making electronic copies of concealed weapons permits for a state database of driver's license applicants. Concealed gun endorsements are noted on driver's licenses.

Click link for remainder of article

Originally posted by lunatux

The United States government will never confiscate your weapon. There are over 300 million loose fire arms in the United States. It would literally take an army going house to house to confiscate them. Moreover, what would start out as a confiscation would almost immediately turn into a civil war since gun owners find the "cold dead hand" philosophy of gun ownership very attractive. Modern means of communication would spread the news of the confiscation attempt. Gun owners would ban together in small guerrilla cells to ambush U.S. forces. This civil war would lead to United States government KIA numbers on the order of those of Korea or Vietnam. As this civil war raged we would become as Syria today.

They could do it once they had the list. They could just bug you out of your mind. Send you letters after letters, hold your tax return, hold your DL renewal....many many things to drive you nuts and avoid a direct confrontation.

Originally posted by Ex_CT2

Originally posted by lunatux

...

Sorry to disappoint but you are in no danger of losing your guns. Your mind maybe but not your guns.

Boy, am I relieved....

Boy, me too. Just for a second there.....just for a second.

By your leave sir!

reply to post by Xcathdra


thanks for the follow up info Xcathdra, I figured this was another attempt at infringement, and it is.. I guess that database is shaping up for them then.

Originally posted by Logarock
They could do it once they had the list. They could just bug you out of your mind. Send you letters after letters, hold your tax return, hold your DL renewal....many many things to drive you nuts and avoid a direct confrontation.

Then the people should send the letters back marked return to sender.
Then the people need to refuse to pay taxes.
Then the people should continue to drive without a DL.

The people need to get off their asses and get involved in government. These idiots in Washington are there because people rubber stamp at the elections.

The Government can only govern with the consent of the people. The Government can only function with money it collects from the people.

I guarantee 300 million people telling 535 Legislatures, 9 Supreme Court Justices and 1 President

NO

would send a very clear signal...

Get involved people.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Thanks.



After a bit of searching it seems you are right about this though Illinois does not honor the CCW of any state. They do not have open carry either and residents need a FOID card for gun ownership.

Regardless after searching a bit more due to your link I found a new article from a few years back that offers a slight glimmer of hope.
chicago.cbslocal.com...

The Supreme Court ruling says a license is not required to transport a gun into Illinois.

I have heard horrors stories though about how they are with firearms and despite the laws it seems they like to try and push them to change.

I also found this (man being an Illinois resident would suck hard, not only do they have high taxes but their gun laws are for the birds).
www.nraila.org...

NON-RESIDENTS

A non-resident is permitted to possess a firearm without a FOID if it is unloaded and enclosed in a case, or if the nonresident is:

As for a resident they have to deal with this sort of thing.

POSSESSION
It is unlawful to possess any firearm or ammunition without a valid FOID. It is unlawful to possess any rifle having one or more barrels less than 16 inches in length or a shotgun having one or more barrels less than 18 inches in length or any weapon made from a rifle or shotgun, if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches. It is unlawful for any person under the age of 18 to possess a handgun, or concealable firearm.

It seems the law is on my side, at least to a very limited point. I guess the fears everyone is conveying then is what happens when you meet "THAT" cop. The bad thing is the handgun I have does not have a case. I got it handed to me from my father. I guess I could have it stored in the back of my car (not that it would do any good there ). That also brings to mind the rest of my concern, being out of state and wishing to open carry.


Raist

reply to post by Raist


I have come across Illinois residents on traffic stops. I have only come across 1 though who had a FOID card with them. When they handed me the card I had to ask them what the hell it was, which prompted a minor conversation about the Democratic People's Republic of Illinois.

I handed him his card back and explained Missouri law to him - Open carry is lawful and concealed carry is lawful on private property or in your vehicle while driving without a CCW.

Even though I am a commissioned officer and am covered by federal law (I can carry concealed in Illinois on my agency credentials), I have heard stories of law enforcement officers from other states being hassled by Illinois law enforcement (stories come from the Chicago area).

Even after the US Supreme Court striking down the Chicago gun law, they just went ahead and passed something similar. While I support state rights and disdain federal over reach, in this area I don't think the states should be allowed to go to the extent Illinois has.

Every time Rham Emmanuel opens his mouth about gun crimes I want someone to point out Chicago's murder rate with those gun laws to see just how idiotic that form of gun control is..

reply to post by Xcathdra


The man who does my fathers physical therapy moved to Illinois and said he found out he has been breaking the law and did not know it (he did not have a FOID card). I have been warned basically not to bother taking a gun into Illinois because you never know what cop you will come across. I am sure there are plenty of good cops there but I know for sure there are some that are not (they are in every state), and they are more than willing to hassle a regular guy far more than any other fellow officer.

I like the idea that I can take my gun into Illinois but with the way I have to carry it I might as well leave it at home if I go that way.

Raist

reply to post by Raist


Its a PDF file -

Illinois Gun Laws - Common Questions & Answers
Illinois Gun Statutes

Illinois State Police - Firearm owner's frequently asked questions

Hopefully some of the info helps..

Originally posted by eXia7
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

thanks for the follow up info Xcathdra, I figured this was another attempt at infringement, and it is.. I guess that database is shaping up for them then.

The lawsuits begin (again for some....)

Mo. gun list given to federal government leads to privacy lawsuit being refiled

Legislative action -
Missouri Senate aims to end state document database Missouri's Revenue Department could no longer keep a computer database of personal documents presented by driver's license applicants under a measure endorsed by the state Senate.

reply to post by Xcathdra


But of course 300 million people are never going to speak with one voice, on one side of one issue. Next idea....