I honestly don't know what to do... Not my typical thread...

There is one way to get proof, but it would break all trust and respect for each other (Hate to admit I'd use it in your situation, but at least I'm honest enough to admit that)There are programs that you can use that would duplicate and send to you, all her texts and e-mails. If she is cheating, you can bet she's using her phone to do it. Should you catch her that way, she would be mad, but rather her mad than you getting lead on, wasting more years on her.
If you wanna go the honest route, simply confront her. That may or may not work, and it will probably lead to a fight, but you would know you didn't get underhanded about it. She already admitted to flirting, so she just might level with you if you spell it all out for her. Sometimes when I have a good argument, but I'm too upset to verbally get my point out, I leave a heart felt note. That way I get all my valid points across before any arguments start and I get flustered.
If she is cheating, the best for you is to end it asap. The sooner it ends (if there is reason for it) the sooner you can be sad, and the sooner you can get over it and move on to something worth your while.
There are no simple solutions here. I feel for you, you clearly care for her a great deal, which makes it harder. Best of luck to you in whatever you do, or however it turns out.
U2U me if you're interested in these programs....

It takes a huge level of maturity to be in a relationship for seven years and then find yourself flirting with other people, and maybe seeing other people and yet owning up to it beforehand or as soon after you realize it yourself with your significant other. You both were together from a very young age and I doubt either of you have the maturity or psychological training to have handled this well, at all.

The truth of the matter is, this relationship has been over for quite a while; you say yourself, she's only going thru the motions lately.

Cut you both some slack, it's an emotional rollercoaster but a lot of what you're feeling is not just betrayal or the loss of the 'seven years investment' but the fact that you're going to be embarassed in front of your whole family, etc. Look at this as a learning and maturing experience for both of you. She never got the chance to date much and meet other people, neither did you and now that learning process can happen.

What really happened is that you started out together very young and yes there may have been love there, but there was also just the attachment that happens with familiarity. It seems hard now but in three weeks, you'll have a whole different attitude towards it; you don't want a child who flirts with other men as the mother of your children (and who minimizes what that means); you want a woman who has had enough time to really learn about herself and the world. And you've got some growing up to do, also. This will help; take the time to learn about yourself and what you really want in a relationship and for gods sake, don't jump into another one. It wouldn't be fair to the new person.

Good luck, it only hurts for a while. Really. Then you start to see the possibilities. Think of this as a trial run adult relationship, getting you ready for a real one.

Another thing OP, if the thought of her cheating actually turns you on, you might start looking into alternate lifestyle choices, maybe spruce up the relationship or the next relationship as a poly one. It can be fun having 2 girlfriends at the same time in the same bed but then you have to deal with their partners and their choices also.

I don't think anyone else has tried to give you this perspective but there are alternate social sites out there. ( no not online dating, that's so shallow and boring) I used to be a member of Fetlife, because I wanted to become a live sex performer at random events in Texas. You meet a lot of people, new groups, new venues, random hotel rooms packed full of women that are waiting to be shibari'd and filmed.... *drool*

As soon as I joined I was invited to some sex dungeon in san antonio texas by 2 local army chicks, results my vary.


I'm not so comfortable with sharing but this might just be a phase in my life, who knows maybe in the future I'll enjoy people enjoying my wife, sure as hell not today though.

You'd be so surprised what a $500 camera will make people do.

Ok...lets see...

I understand exactly where you are coming from...BUT if my gf admitted that she is flirting with a guy for whatever reason ill give her the WTF look and wave goodbye, and I DID 2 years ago for the same reason.

Women are manipulative, and sometimes deliver their actions such as "flirting is really nothing babe" for so and so reason to have you not feel worried that something is going down behind the curtain which they fail miserably because they don't realize we men have strong intuition too and can see wassup.

You sound like a gentlemen that this lady does not deserve and I'm sorry you are going through all the stress and worry but it's part of life and your individual journey of growth...

Best thing to do is have a talk with her...and follow your intuition it will NEVER fail you.

All the posters have given you decent advice so far.

So what if you snooped? She gave you reason to snoop. I feel that if I have things to hide from my significant other, than I shouldn't be doing those things.

Having gone through this same thing, I can tell you that if your intuition is telling you she's cheating, THEN SHE IS. There are too many "coincidences" here, and you have caught her in lies.

As has been pointed out, most people who cheat are (I feel) cheesy cowards who want to make sure that things work out with their affair before they throw the old relationship away.

Confront her directly with the evidence. Expect a lot of self-righteous indignation and complaints about you "snooping" and "not trusting her". But stick to your guns.

I would tell her, well, let's just call your male friend in Texas and see what he has to say. That should bring this whole sick mess to a boil. If she walks out, she was going to anyway. At least beat her to the punch and make her confess it.

However, when my ex husband cheated, he never confessed it. He claimed it was all in my imagination, he left and moved in with his ho, but NEVER confessed. Some people are just deluded that way.

I'm sorry for your pain, many of us have been there and it is absolutely awful. But better now than later, my friend.

.....


If things go bad remember this...


find a bunch of random naked pics of girls


Break up with her, tell her you're busy and for her to take her pics back, send her all the pics and tell her to send back the ones that aren't her


Open up a cold and frosty Sam Adams.

If you really love her, ask her to marry you.

You'l find out then...

reply to post by jhn7537


I think you need to do a little more investigating, depends on if you love this person and want to be with her and whatnot and how far your willing to take it. You need to find out if she is indeed actually cheating on you, by either talking to the guy, finding out about her trips like talk to her boss or follow her.

Once you accuse someone of cheating without evidence it will be a very bad road to go down.

Here's food for thought OP...

You had trust for her until that night in October. When confronted she dismissed your concern with an excuse, that flirting with guys was boost to her self esteem...makes me wonder where the self esteem issues have come from honestly. Guys typically either build up a womans self esteem by celebrating her accomplishments with her; or break it down out of their own insecurities and self esteem issues.

You accepted her excuse for this behavior what this did was two fold; it either displayed confidence or else it was being your usual doormat self...I am expecting the latter, because a door mat snoops, a door mat dismisses and won't stand up for lines that are unacceptable to cross, a lot of times this is done to avoid and argument...but you can make your line clear and solid without getting into an argument...It is matter of fact period, like it or lump it, accept it or we move on, yes it sounds like an ultimatum and it is. But it shouldn't have taken 7 years for her to know your view point on such things...unless you have always blindly trusted til something like the cell phone text popped up.

So for the past however many months you have been passive aggressive, by not being direct and feeling you need to sneak around for info on if she's sneaking around...I mean come on man, there has to be a moment of clarity in there. So you've rented another apartment already without her knowing, you are passively aggressively creating a balance to wrong her just as much as your snooping has made you feel wronged.

What you are doing is just as bad. She told you her problem with insecurity in her self leading to bad self esteem...did you try to help her fix or over come these issues? No you went on a CIA mission to gather intelligence. When you did not draw that line, and help her over come her self esteem issues...you basically dismissed her feelings and then on top of that ok'ed her coping mechanism to boost that low self esteem, by flirting...everyone knows what flirting can lead too.

Stop playing the victim see your role in this...you could have been a solution to help your partner over her issues unless that's just who she is, but instead of finding out if that's her thing or something that truly troubles her...you assumed more and have spent these last months trying to find more, while something you gave a go ahead on as an enabler developed into something more.

That's why women don't go for the "Nice guys" that lay down and say walk on me. They don't care for the "Bad guys" either but they help then forget their head trips instead of giving them another like the nice guy does...they know what to expect out of the "Bad guy" from the word go.

Now if you can stand up for yourself and display some confidence in who you are...you are the marriage material keeper kind of guy, because if you can stand up for your ideals over getting some on a regular, you can stand up for hers as well and both of you can grow from that type of give and take, this is the strength and security women want. Sure a door mat can provide some financial stability, but no emotional strength...if a guys woman is always on the verge of crumbling inside shes gonna want to escape that. You can either build up her strength or knock it down...best to build it up because all the ex's either knocked it down douche "bad guy types" or made her a bit mental "nice guy types" the unicorn for the women of the world is the normal damn guy, that knows where he stands in the world and stands there firmly bad guy but yielding in understanding good guy.

So the perfect man falls in the middle of these two degenerate types. The bad guy is an over confident douche that is unyielding(strength but lacks emotional understanding), and the good guy door mat yields (understanding but lacks strength) One gives strength but lacks security, one gives security but lacks strength, the ever elusive guy gives emotional strength and emotional security, the external of these two: looks money etc. doesn't really matter, except to the two degenerate types of women that mirror the two degenerate types of men.

Neither work well together or mixed keeping the dating world stocked...it takes the elusive unicorn to end the madness, that why it seems all the good ones are married...fortunately both types are born everyday the nice guy grows a back bone and the bad guy gets humbled...and thus the unicorn is born.

I started out as a nice guy by the way...ran through a patch of bad women types, instead of going into passive aggressive mode on one that was cheating and lying to me from the start as usual. I decided to give her the same medicine right back...and two unicorns were made out of that, too much mutual hurt to continue on just perpetually angry make up style sex...that can be good but there's no trust to ever come back out of that kind of situation...both partners constantly jealous and bickering but get it on like wild animals? No thanks.

Originally posted by NightFlight
If you really love her, ask her to marry you.

You'l find out then...

This is the worst advice I have possibly read on this topic yet...if you might expand on your logic and rationality for this working that would be nice. This is just kicking the hornets nest and standing there to see if it's full or empty.

What if his fears are on solid ground she is cheating and she says yes? This suggestion just breeds too many variables and chaos no prediction could be made out of this...that favors either party.

He'd be married and always have doubts, she could be married and still cheat...hows drawing up a contract that every outsider expects after 7 years going to change this situation for the better? She's just gonna magically gain self esteem with a ring? and he's just gonna be trusting because she's wearing a ring?

dude...no.

reply to post by BigBrotherDarkness


Very honest post and I truly appreciate it. What's strange is that my gf is a very confident female. She has a great job, a great degree, and has lived that picture perfect life (since childhood) in a lot of respects. So i always found it odd that she flirted with other guys, but always said it was nothing but "harmless fun".... And you're right, I have played the doormat in a lot of ways, especially with the flirting stuff, because it does bother me, but I never wanted to be that jealous boyfriend type (like she would say)... Any way you slice it this is a girl I cared about, still do care about, and I hate that I'm at this crossroad...

Not trying intentionally to sound like a jerk...but

Man up and say something. Similar situation with my now ex-wife and I just up and asked her what was up. Of course she denied everything until I showed her my proof then she just tried to blow it off.

My ex cheated on me while I was deployed to Iraq for the second time...with an ex-boyfriend no less. It hurt but once a cheater, always a cheater. I am much happier now.

to sum up...like the old Nike ads:

Just Do It

reply to post by jhn7537


This could be just an external facade you know...I dated a director of a university she had all the confident traits because she learned how to put on the public mask. In private however she was dying inside and so walled up emotionally there was no mortar to even begin chipping at to get inside.

Some people try to avoid hurt by building up these exteriors and putting on these faces...to let someone in that can poke around inside their marrow? Forget about it...unless perhaps if you're a unicorn, otherwise she's not going to budge that wall or facade for no one except a strong understanding manicorn...even then building that trust can take a long time. My ability to see psychological drives by focusing on relationship needs and having a lot of women friends did get me into the marrow, but I was still not a unicorn in those days...once her guard when down and she could see herself she exploded...years and years of repressed anger and resentment all on me perhaps getting in there wasn't as good as an idea I thought.

But, I grew and she grew...eventually she e-mailed me thanking me for getting her to let her walls down and become vulnerable enough to trust people. The weird thing was is she was just like me, in that respect...it wasn't until a few years later that I realized I wasn't allowing myself to be vulnerable enough to trust either...hurt breeds some interesting coping mechanisms...eventually the doormat becomes the walled up from so much hurt...and many times they held onto the idea that they are a giver and trust so much, they don't even know they are walled up themselves...I sure as hell didn't know I was walled up, I had the assumption, that I never changed from relationships I assumed I just gained understanding...from these situations.

Interesting how we delude ourselves and how hard to see these coping mechanisms are within ourselves. Real communication coupled with trust can get inside...however if you let go of letting. The doormat grows out of too much self control so much self control that they stifle their needs to the point where they can't even state them. Silly how that works isn't it? Your not getting what you want because you won;t even allow yourself to state what you want...now who's fault is that?

I personally say come clean...letting her know what you've been doing out of fear and self protection because your trust has been swayed, no need for excuses or beating around the bush...speak directly from the heart without blame...if you cannot do this face to face write her a letter and make yourself scarce so she can read it and digest it and gain some understanding...this seems to be more your style, from the getting an apartment and slipping away.

Now if you've had doubts about this relationship all these years and never had the spine, and this is your window to crawl out of. Then just leave man and spend some time working on fixing yourself by understanding who you are and how you operate and EMBRACE that self...otherwise you are going to keep lying to yourself and others through rationalizing poor coping mechanisms pretending to be and idealistic self instead of your true self.

reply to post by jhn7537


If she is talking to any guys other than family, looooong time friend, or a coworker, then her heart isn't in the relationship, and you need to end it. Also, that no snooping bull, is just that, bull. You should be close enough to be able to take a dump, while she sits on your lap looking through your wallet, and vice versa. If not, you aren't close enough. (This part also applies to the friend/coworker thing. You should be able to ask her about any relationship and all it's details, if she has a long time guy friend then he should also be you long time guy friend. If she gets upset when you ask about any relationship - dump her. You would answer her questions right? That too needy or too snoopy thing is bull. If you can't be needy or snoopy to one another then it's not someone you want to be with.)

GUY CODE! Seriously.

If everything you said is true, she is for sure cheating on you. Also, trust your gut, man. If you sense something wrong, then the majority of the time, something is wrong. You've touched souls with the girl - you're going to know when somethings up.

My advice is to be as nice as you can when you do break up. Let her feel like she's won so you don't have to go through all the spiteful junk, but cut ties clean. Don't be calling each other, don't be looking for no "one last time for good memories" - none of that. End it clean and go stay with your family until you get the new apartment.

That's just my advice, though; ultimately, you got to make the choices yourself, cause you're the one who has to live through it.

If I were you, I would prepare for the talk. Collect anything you need, write down in chronological order these things. If she doesn't shred her statements, you could retrieve them and make notes. I know it sounds a bit over the top, but this is your state of mind, and if she's already annoyed at you questioning her, you may as well go whole hog and do it.
If you can go without completely compromising her privacy, it would be best. Don't ask to see her phone, or her Facebook messages (and if you have access to either, it's probably best not to even look, in case you find something you don't want to see).
It needs to be talked about it a calm and rational manner, it's hard, since you've invested so much time in a long relationship.
The talk might end the relationship, but this hanging over you and not saying anything, I feel, is much worse. A relationship ending isn't the end of the world, and it sounds like it's possibly been going on for the last 6 months or so any way. It sounds to me you're in a lose-lose situation. If you talk to her and she's cheating, game over. If you talk to her and she's not cheating, game over, because she thinks you don't trust her.

I've heard women tend to "shop around", but not committing to anything until the first relationship is found to be a bust (or she gets caught out).
If she's already admitted to flirting with other men because it makes her feel good this suggests two things, 1: she's seeking emotional relationships elsewhere, and 2: you're not providing the emotional comfort she needs. (Sorry if that sounds harsh, it's how we women operate sometimes).

Moving out is a good option, in my opinion. This way, if she's cheating, you can make a clean break and have your own space immediately without the added slap in the face of having to stay in the same house while closing deals are made on new apartments. Also, it's better than kicking her out, and its leaving her with a place to stay (an ex of mine dropped me a fast one about 7 years ago, and made me homeless for 8 months).

My friend broke up with her boyfriend in January, after spending the last 6 months hanging out with another guy. She never hid it from her boyfriend that she was going to see this other man, and she always told me that nothing was happening between them, and I believed her. She said that all it was for her was the emotional relationship she lacked with her boyfriend. (I have to admit though, her boyfriend was a bit of an ass at times). When they broke up, within three weeks things had progressed with this other guy.
So even if your girlfriend ISN'T cheating on you now, chances are, things would have gone that way.

There are too many coincidences in your story for her not to be cheating on you.
I hope you're able to make a clean break, and leave her to the sordid bed she's made for herself.
Don't worry about what other people will think. Don't worry about families, and what people will say and how others will feel. This is your relationship, and more importantly, your mental health. You can't stay with someone who is making you suspicious.

After 7 years, there is no good reason to keep secrets. There is no reason why she would keep a male friend a secret, unless there is something going on, or unless she thinks you'd over-react. But if you haven't given her reason to think you would over react about a male friend in the last 7 years, then there's no reason for him to be a secret unless she's cheating on you with him.

She said she "loves to flirt, giving her a good feeling". That is enough for me. This is a major bad sign in a relationship.

Your partner thinks in ways about other people she should be thinking about you. Not other people. Every time she "cheats" on you in her mind, it counts as a real cheat, even if she wouldn't admit seeing it like that.

Cheating is cheating. Be in a relationship or not.

Your posting lit up all my red flags.

Youve both been in the relationship for a long time, and i can see you care a great deal about her.
I would just ask her whats been going on, you are right in being suspicious and all, id try to confront her, and ask her to be honest. Nobody knows her like you do, see how she reacts, and then youll probably find out for yourself if shes being honest or not. Even if she denies everything, if you can tell shes lying, then thats it.
Tell her how you feel about it, and how hard its been for you all this time, if she cares for you at all, or if she ever did then she will come clean.

Its hard to do it, ive been through the same a couple of years ago, and at the time it took me a while to know what to do, but in the end i knew i just had to confront her.

Dating for 7 years??? Hmmmm. Any reason for such a long dating period and no engagement or marriage?

I'm really sorry for what you are going through, I know it hurts like hell. There is reason it's called the seven year itch. For whatever reason, she has sought out new love. It's always exciting and dreamy when it's new, then reality slowly sets in, and basically she is looking for something she is not getting with you. I don't know what it is, but at this point does it matter? Relationships can recover if both parties really want them to, and it takes a lot of work to rebuild trust.

I'm one of those people who gives my all until this switch inside of me flips, and then, well, "My give a damn is busted" and there really is no fixing it. It took me eight years to divorce my misogynistic husband. I finally said, "enough, I want a divorce" and within three months we were divorced. I don't trust like I used to. I hope you can look honestly at everything. I know this hurts so much just based on the betrayal. Try to be kind to yourself, and ask what it is you really want. Then proceed from there. I believe that 90% of people know when their partner is being unfaithful and we just come to admit it at different times. You have your answers, now you have decisions.

I wish you happiness and joy after the sorrow and loss. The sun does shine again my friend.

reply to post by jhn7537


How often do the business trips occur?

Act as if nothing is wrong.
Take the next flight after hers to the same location.
Rent a car.
Track her.
If found cheating, confront her. Not in anger. No violence either. People like her enjoy the thrill of not getting caught. When they are, it ruins their outlook.

Act as if you don't care. Say little, then fly home and move 100% of her stuff to the yard. Heck, invite her folks to come get it even.

Cancel any joint credit cards and any other joint financials immediately upon your return as well.

Change your phone number, move on.

There are way too many good women in the world to worry over one who is cheating.