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Originally posted by TinkerHaus
Most people getting all worked up about these kind of things never actually look into it for themselves like the OP did. That is why I star and flag his thread and that is why I help him argue his point. He took the initiative, and while I'm not asking for anyone to publicly respond, I will wonder out loud how many of you actually looked as deeply into this issue as he did before proclaiming the sky is falling. Don't answer to me, just answer to yourselves.
Originally posted by TinkerHaus
And toward the OPs argument that the orders are to use the entire budget -
My brother recently was honorably discharged from the National Guard. Before he went into the NG he was active Army, and did two combat tours in Iraq.. Not one of those guys who went there in 2008 to sit in a tent, but someone who was there for the initial invasion and saw real combat.
When they do live fire exercises in the National Guard, they often end up with thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of rounds left over. At that point they all go out and just shoot. No direction, no scoring, no rating.. Just burning ammo. Why? Because if they fail to use it all then they cannot justify their budget the following fiscal year.
So the OPs argument is a valid one. Instead of coming back with your opinion, maybe it would serve you better to do some research and respond with verifiable fact.
Originally posted by inverslyproportional
reply to post by camaro68ss
I think we are all wasting our time and words, it is obvious to me at this point the op is the one with the closed mind.
He wont take any evidence as evidence, this is why his entire op was based off of one single contract, the one he coild find that fits his view, as absolute proof.
Anyone cam google or bing this subject and find terrabytes of sources, he could only find one that zupports his view, this is the reason for his lack of evidence, and attempting to use evidence that contadicts his view as evidence that supports it.
I may read some more of this thread, but I am done I think, unless the op wants to talk in facts and numbers.
Originally posted by kozmo
reply to post by TinkerHaus
Simply stated... NO organization trains with hollow-point or green-tip ammo - NONE! EVER!
Care to Explain the 2,700 MRAP armored personnel carriers and the 2,500 GLS armored fighting platforms procured in 2012? Oh wait, let me guess... they needed a safe vehicle to drive to the store to get milk, right?
Maybe you can enlighten us on the $1B spent on MRE's, body bags and coffins in 2012? This is more than 15 times the normal procurement range within a fiscal year for DHS.
How about bullet proof checkpoint booths? Riot gear? Enough body armor to outfit each DHS employee TWICE!
All of this in the past year!
Couple that with flat out refusals to respond to FOIA requests and you have a rogue agency functioning well outside of its intended charter.
Lisle-based Navistar Defense LLC landed an $880 million order from the U.S. Marine Corps to upgrade more than 2,700 mine resistant ambush protected vehicles, the company announced Tuesday.
The Navistar International Corp. subsidiary will retrofit the MaxxPro vehicles with new rolling chassis to improve their off-road capability.
Update: An earlier version of this post included a figure of over 2,700 vehicles, as cited from the original RT link. This figure likely comes from a press release from Navistar Defense, mentioning delivery of 2,717 to the U.S. Marine Corps. A DHS Spokesman confirmed with Business Insider that they have only 16 nationwide.
Read more: www.businessinsider.com...
Originally posted by TinkerHaus
And toward the OPs argument that the orders are to use the entire budget -
My brother recently was honorably discharged from the National Guard. Before he went into the NG he was active Army, and did two combat tours in Iraq.. Not one of those guys who went there in 2008 to sit in a tent, but someone who was there for the initial invasion and saw real combat.
When they do live fire exercises in the National Guard, they often end up with thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of rounds left over. At that point they all go out and just shoot. No direction, no scoring, no rating.. Just burning ammo. Why? Because if they fail to use it all then they cannot justify their budget the following fiscal year.
So the OPs argument is a valid one. Instead of coming back with your opinion, maybe it would serve you better to do some research and respond with verifiable fact.
While the Department of Homeland Security continues to ignore members of Congress demanding to know why the federal agency is engaged in an apparent arms build-up, the DHS has just announced it plans to purchase another 360,000 rounds of hollow point ammunition to add to the roughly 2 billion bullets already bought over the past year. A solicitation on the ( ( Federal Business Opportunities) website details the DHS’ plan to purchase 360,000 rounds of “Commercial leaded training ammo (CLTA) Pistol .40 caliber 165 grain, jacketed hollow point
Originally posted by inverslyproportional
Originally posted by TinkerHaus
And toward the OPs argument that the orders are to use the entire budget -
My brother recently was honorably discharged from the National Guard. Before he went into the NG he was active Army, and did two combat tours in Iraq.. Not one of those guys who went there in 2008 to sit in a tent, but someone who was there for the initial invasion and saw real combat.
When they do live fire exercises in the National Guard, they often end up with thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of rounds left over. At that point they all go out and just shoot. No direction, no scoring, no rating.. Just burning ammo. Why? Because if they fail to use it all then they cannot justify their budget the following fiscal year.
So the OPs argument is a valid one. Instead of coming back with your opinion, maybe it would serve you better to do some research and respond with verifiable fact.
Wrong bro, ammo comes in wooden crates, we always have rounds left over, but if the crate isnt opened it os returned, we also have to police up all the brass and place it back into the cardboard packs, and back into the ammo cans and back into the crate so they can send it back to be reloaded.
We never just stood around a wasted thousands of rounds. Maybd hundreds if the crate was opened, to finish it off, but not thousands or tens of thousands.
Originally posted by TinkerHaus
[This is incorrect. My firearms instructor is an NRA certified Range Master and active police office. They DO train with JHP and FMJ. These rounds shoot differently, and you need experience with JHP if that's what you'll be using in the field.
I'm not aware of most of the other claims you've made, but if you have sources I'd be happy to familiarize myself.
infowars is not a source.
Originally posted by inverslyproportional
reply to post by camaro68ss
I think we are all wasting our time and words, it is obvious to me at this point the op is the one with the closed mind.
He wont take any evidence as evidence, this is why his entire op was based off of one single contract, the one he coild find that fits his view, as absolute proof.
Anyone cam google or bing this subject and find terrabytes of sources, he could only find one that zupports his view, this is the reason for his lack of evidence, and attempting to use evidence that contadicts his view as evidence that supports it.
I may read some more of this thread, but I am done I think, unless the op wants to talk in facts and numbers.
Originally posted by TinkerHaus
No one but the OP has provided evidence. Just opinion.
If it's so easy to google and find sources, please do so and post them to this thread so that those of us who aren't as intelligent as you can have easy access to them.
Thanks for all your hard work!
Originally posted by dominicus
OP,
Your wrong, the bullets being bought are not all at once but over the last year.
Also just today Monday MArch 25th, 2013:
While the Department of Homeland Security continues to ignore members of Congress demanding to know why the federal agency is engaged in an apparent arms build-up, the DHS has just announced it plans to purchase another 360,000 rounds of hollow point ammunition to add to the roughly 2 billion bullets already bought over the past year. A solicitation on the ( ( Federal Business Opportunities) website details the DHS’ plan to purchase 360,000 rounds of “Commercial leaded training ammo (CLTA) Pistol .40 caliber 165 grain, jacketed hollow point
Link
And the beat goes on, while they ignore our questions why they need so much. Also I went to a couple local gun shops a few weeks ago to look at some hand guns, and the store owners told me there is an extremely loooong waiting period for the most popular ammo and its all due to the Gov buying it all up.
ATS seems to becoming more and more a "OVERTHROW THE GOVERNMENT" site...hundreds of threads on how americans are getting screwed over by their government, and how taking violent action is the only solution. a divide and conquer sentiment seems to be growing every day, may i remind americans, that there are people that are foreigners, that would love to see a new american civil war.
Originally posted by tide88
Originally posted by kozmo
reply to post by TinkerHaus
Simply stated... NO organization trains with hollow-point or green-tip ammo - NONE! EVER!
Care to Explain the 2,700 MRAP armored personnel carriers and the 2,500 GLS armored fighting platforms procured in 2012? Oh wait, let me guess... they needed a safe vehicle to drive to the store to get milk, right?
Maybe you can enlighten us on the $1B spent on MRE's, body bags and coffins in 2012? This is more than 15 times the normal procurement range within a fiscal year for DHS.
How about bullet proof checkpoint booths? Riot gear? Enough body armor to outfit each DHS employee TWICE!
All of this in the past year!
Couple that with flat out refusals to respond to FOIA requests and you have a rogue agency functioning well outside of its intended charter.
Sure, the MRAP story was a hoax. The order for the 2700 MRAP was for the marines, not DHS.
NAVSTAR LANDS 880 MILLION DEFENSE CONTRACT
Lisle-based Navistar Defense LLC landed an $880 million order from the U.S. Marine Corps to upgrade more than 2,700 mine resistant ambush protected vehicles, the company announced Tuesday.
The Navistar International Corp. subsidiary will retrofit the MaxxPro vehicles with new rolling chassis to improve their off-road capability.
Here are some links from some site who actually like to report the truth once it is found out the original information was a hoax.
UPDATE DHS NOT BUYING 2700 MRAP
Update: An earlier version of this post included a figure of over 2,700 vehicles, as cited from the original RT link. This figure likely comes from a press release from Navistar Defense, mentioning delivery of 2,717 to the U.S. Marine Corps. A DHS Spokesman confirmed with Business Insider that they have only 16 nationwide.
Read more: www.businessinsider.com...
See how easy it is to find the truth out. Doesn't it make you wonder what else you believe to be true actually isn't.