Department Of Homeland Security is NOT Stockpiling Ammo

Originally posted by Flatfish

Originally posted by camaro68ss
how is Rand paul a nut job? enlighten me please?

When the devoted follower of crackpot cult leader Ayn Rand gets elected to the Senate, you wind up having Congressional hearings filled up with feverish rhetoric.

You bias is so vague and silly. Ayn Rand, a female book writer somehow becomes a cult leader in your eyes?
Ill just lol to this and move on.

reply to post by tide88


So if it isn't true then why was Big Sis getting grilled about it by Congress the other day? Maybe that didn't happen either.

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime
reply to post by tide88

 

So if it isn't true then why was Big Sis getting grilled about it by Congress the other day? Maybe that didn't happen either.

Lol that is funny, stop using logic and common sense, your fighting an unarmed op with tools he doesnt possess!!!

Sorry op, my adhd is getting the better of me, when I get bored I tend to entertain myself at others expense.

Originally posted by inverslyproportional
I am waiting for the op to offer some proof, he claimed he was gonna debunk it, but all I saw was one ourchase order, out of many, and it wasnt even a very large one to begin with.

Op, you fail unless I see some evidence, as k have seen what I feel is enough credible evidence to prove somthing is going on, and it isnt in the peoples best interest.

It is going to take a lot more than you one link to a tiny ammo purchase order.

Either out up or shut uo op, I just googled and binged this subject, looks like there are plenty of sources to choose from.

WhTs taking you so long? Having a hard time finding any evidence to back up your claims?

Ok, you want some more proof? That 1.6 billion number includes an order for 450 million rounds of HP from contractor ATK. However, that order for 450 million HP's was over a five year period and that number also is the maximum, will not exceed, not the total ordered.

ATK announced that it is being awarded an Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) agreement from the Department of Homeland Security, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (DHS, ICE) for .40 caliber ammunition. This contract features a base of 12 months, includes four option years, and will have a maximum volume of 450 million rounds.

450 million HP's ATK order

So now we have a 1/3 of the number of bullets allegedly bought in question. BTW, you are exactly the type of poster that I describe in the OP. You don't want the truth, if you did, you would dig for it yourself. What you want it to blindly believe what others post here. DENY IGNORANCE!!!

reply to post by OptimusSubprime

So if it isn't true then why was Big Sis getting grilled about it by Congress the other day? Maybe that didn't happen either.

There is nothing to see here! Move along!

Everyone said 'this is just a crazy conspiracy theory being perpetuated by some loony tinfoil hat wearing paranoids'.

Now forbes is talking about it.

Congress is talking about it.

Is that not 'main stream' enough to know that something is clearly going on and that the truth is not being told?

I find it telling that no answer has been given (that I have heard yet) and to me, sometimes what is not being said, says more than what is.

Originally posted by inverslyproportional

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime
reply to post by tide88

 

So if it isn't true then why was Big Sis getting grilled about it by Congress the other day? Maybe that didn't happen either.

Lol that is funny, stop using logic and common sense, your fighting an unarmed op with tools he doesnt possess!!!

Sorry op, my adhd is getting the better of me, when I get bored I tend to entertain myself at others expense.

I have plenty of proof. I decided to do it this way to show how easily obtainable the truth is.

Anyone can post anything they want regarding how many rounds of ammo the DHS has, but really... Does anyone here know how many rounds they actually have?

Anyway, they wouldn't have to requisition a single round if they wanted to keep it below board. The ammo can simply be transferred from any branch of the armed forces, if there is anything going on that they want to keep from us.

ETA: In the end, there isn't much of anything we can do about how they keep track of their purchases. All we can do is fight them if something stupid ends up being in their plans.

reply to post by tide88


Lol, you have no idea what I want, or what my motivations are.

I was just jerking your chain because you made the claim you woukd debunk the whole thing, yet now you still have a long way to go.

Yes 450 million, is part of it, it is a real order for uo to that amount, so it is true.

Fact so far from your own source, at least 450million rounds have been confimred true by you, thanks for debunking.

Nkw get out there and chase down the rest, or do you want me to do your job for you. Hey I know, just cooy oaste my next reply into your op, that way you can have the data at hand. Ya like I am going to go for that.

The OP is incorrect and simply repeating the liberal meme now, "they did not buy all those bullets". According to the US Congress they did, and they are trying to dodge the issue. All during the "most open Administration ever".

Originally posted by grey580
Unfortunately people do not understand the RFP process.
Unless you actually deal with the government.

First of all an RFP is not an order. It is a solicitation for bids.
Request For Proposal.
en.wikipedia.org...

Second it wasn't an rfp for X. It was a rfp for up to X.
It makes a difference.

Speaking of not understanding the FedGov ways and means:

1600M you would think means 1600 million, which is 1.6 billion.

However:

Page 29 of the Defense Logistics Agency, Customer Assistance Handbook lists the QUP (Quantity Unit Pack) as M=50.

The purchase order for 1600M equals 1600 boxes of 50 rounds.

The 3 steps are:

An RFI (Request For Information) to construct the RFQ and request as a budget line item in the agency.
An RFQ (Request For Quote) to fulfill procurement requirements and restrictions, construct the PO.
The PO (Purchase order) the contract as let.

Originally posted by inverslyproportional

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime
reply to post by tide88

 

So if it isn't true then why was Big Sis getting grilled about it by Congress the other day? Maybe that didn't happen either.

Lol that is funny, stop using logic and common sense, your fighting an unarmed op with tools he doesnt possess!!!

Sorry op, my adhd is getting the better of me, when I get bored I tend to entertain myself at others expense.

Here is another 175 million rounds we can that number in March, 2012.

The language on page 1 of 8 under “Minimum and Maximum Thresholds” has been clarified as follows: “….The The language on page 1 of 8 under “Minimum and Maximum Thresholds” has been clarified as follows: “….The guaranteed minimum of any contract awarded is 10,000 rounds for each type of ammunition and is applicable to the base year only. The maximum threshold throughout the 5-year duration of the contract will be 165,000,000 rounds for SD and 10,000,000 rounds for EP.
Additionally, the language under Attachment 1 (Ordering Guide), page 2 of 18 has been clarified as follows: “In the event that the Government makes multiple awards, the Contracting Officer provide a fair opportunity to be considered issuing individual delivery orders exceeding $3,000 in accordance with FAR 16.505(b)
. The maximum threshold throughout the 5-year duration of the contract will be 165,000,000 rounds for SD and 10,000,000 rounds for EP.
Additionally, the language under Attachment 1 (Ordering Guide), page 2 of 18 has been clarified as follows: “In the event that the Government makes multiple awards, the Contracting Officer provide a fair opportunity to be considered issuing individual delivery orders exceeding $3,000 in accordance with FAR 16.505(b)

Click amendment 2-223 for link to above

As far as I can tell this order was never even awarded. Also notice in the above quote the MINIMUM guaranteed amount is only 10,000 rounds of each type and is only guaranteed for the first year of the contract. This means after the first year they do not have to buy any more ammo.

Originally posted by inverslyproportional
reply to post by tide88

 

Lol, you have no idea what I want, or what my motivations are.

I was just jerking your chain because you made the claim you woukd debunk the whole thing, yet now you still have a long way to go.

Yes 450 million, is part of it, it is a real order for uo to that amount, so it is true.

Fact so far from your own source, at least 450million rounds have been confimred true by you, thanks for debunking.

Nkw get out there and chase down the rest, or do you want me to do your job for you. Hey I know, just cooy oaste my next reply into your op, that way you can have the data at hand. Ya like I am going to go for that.

450 million over five years with only 10,000 rounds of each guaranteed for the first year, after that they do not need to purchase any more ammo.

Obviously you don't want the truth or have a serious reading comprehension problem.

Originally posted by sprtpilot
The OP is incorrect and simply repeating the liberal meme now, "they did not buy all those bullets". According to the US Congress they did, and they are trying to dodge the issue. All during the "most open Administration ever".

My guess is they use the orders as a budget accounting trick. The orders are placed with the maximum amount so their budget doesn't get cut. They order the bullets and claim the money is needed to fulfill those orders, although the orders are not actually ever filled. That is more than likely the reason congress is getting the run around here.

Not to mention in this HuffPost article the DHS ADMITS to buying 1.6 billion rounds. And they try to explain WHY they are buying so many rounds.

Yeah... deny ignorance. Great job buddy!!

The Homeland Security Department wants to buy more than 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition in the next four or five years. It says it needs them – roughly the equivalent of five bullets for every person in the United States – for law enforcement agents in training and on duty.

Dixon said one of the contracts would allow Homeland Security to buy up to 750 million rounds of ammunition over the next five years for its training facilities. The rounds are used for basic and advanced law enforcement training for federal law enforcement agencies under the department's umbrella. The facilities also offer firearms training to tens of thousands of federal law enforcement officers. More than 90 federal agencies and 70,000 agents and officers used the department's training center last year.

The rest of the 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition would be purchased by Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the federal government's second largest criminal investigative agency.

ICE's ammunition requests in the last year included:

_450 million rounds of .40-caliber duty ammunition

_40 million rounds of rifle ammunition a year for as many as five years, for a total bullet-buy of 200 million rounds

_176,000 rifle rounds on a separate contract

_25,000 blank rounds

The Homeland Security ammo buy is not the first time the government's bullets purchases have sparked concerns on the Internet. The same thing happened last year when the Social Security Administration posted a notice that it was buying 174,000 hollow point bullets.

Jesus, Mary and Joseph!!! Are you kidding me? The OP has debunked NOTHING! Congrats on finding 1 contract of thousands that was closed!

I guess we understand Mr. Reno's failure to explain anything to Congress... er, I mean Ms. Reno - whatever! I guess that explains the continued waffling by other ranking members of DHS refusing to answer questions?

This board has become infested with disinfo agents - who aren't even any good at hiding their true intentions! Believe it or not 1+1+1 DOES in fact EQUAL 3!!!

Just under 2 Billion rounds, most of them hollow point or greentip (9mm, .40cal, 5.56, .223 and .308 - all standardized "mixed use" rounds for pistols, submachine guns and "assault rifles". .308 is a sniper rifle round and give n the quantity, DHS must have a pretty hefty supply of sniper rifle platforms). Over 7,000 fully automatic "Personal defense weapons". Just under 2,700 MRAPS armored anti-IED personnel carriers which join the 2,500 GLS armored fighting vehicles purchased by DHS in 2012. Bullet proof checkpoint booths. Body armor. Riot gear. In addition, over $1 Billion in MRE's, body bags and coffins were procured by DHS in 2012.

I've dealt with government contracts for years and have never seen anything like this. A very close friend works for DOD and spent 20 years in procurement - he has NEVER seen anything like this. Another close friend of ours is a Lt. Colonel, Logistics Corps, Quartermaster corps - responsible for warehousing, managing and shipping DOD materials and supplies and has stated that most DHS purchases just in 2012 EXCEED major deployment requirements for the military in theatre of war!

Believe whomever you choose. However, apply even a cursory amount of logic and it is painfully clear to see who is here to "Debunk" and spread disinfo and who among us is informed and attempting to spread the news!

reply to post by inverslyproportional


It's all on www.fbo.gov
You can search as well.

Regardless of the ammo purchases, the militarization of the DHS as well as law enforcement agencies around the country cannot be ignored. There is also a severe ammo shortage going on right now and people are becoming legitimately concerned with the direction the government is heading. Even if you are correct that the actual numbers are much smaller that still does not negate their current actions. For all we know they may already have billions of rounds stockpiled before this public fiasco began. I don't know how to find that info but maybe someone does. So OP, You may be correct with some of your accounting but I am afraid that is will not do anything to ease the tension between the people and the government. There is way too much evidence that they are up to no good to be overlooked.

Originally posted by tide88

Originally posted by inverslyproportional
reply to post by tide88

 

Lol, you have no idea what I want, or what my motivations are.

I was just jerking your chain because you made the claim you woukd debunk the whole thing, yet now you still have a long way to go.

Yes 450 million, is part of it, it is a real order for uo to that amount, so it is true.

Fact so far from your own source, at least 450million rounds have been confimred true by you, thanks for debunking.

Nkw get out there and chase down the rest, or do you want me to do your job for you. Hey I know, just cooy oaste my next reply into your op, that way you can have the data at hand. Ya like I am going to go for that.

450 million over five years with only 10,000 rounds of each guaranteed for the first year, after that they do not need to purchase any more ammo.

Obviously you don't want the truth or have a serious reading comprehension problem.

So just to be clear, only bullets bought this year can kill americans?

Or do you not understand, that is 450 million rounds over 5 years, that is 90 million a years if divided equally.
These rounds are all for use exclusively on american soil, as dhs operates only on american soil, sk these rounds are by simple logic for use on american citizens.

90 million a year for 5 years...... I dont see the misunderstanding for you. Even if onky these 450 million rounds were all of it, it is way too much, and they dont have a decent reason even for needing that much.

Please stop insulting the intelligence of all of these nice people.

reply to post by unsteadystate


I agree that we the people are leading the spearhead of Ammo depletion but it we are also supplied by almost every major nation including Russia, Czechs, Argentina, etc. Not including major plants in the US like Winchester and Federal (I would include Remington but rumor has it that some of their stuff is coming from China). Then you have the smaller companies and the reloading companies such as PMI and Magtech.
Then you have the military production facilties such as Radford and Lake City. Together we are talking Billions of rounds of production capabilites.
Now Understanding the Supply chain I'm not too worried right now because the stores where wiped out and so where the warehouses, now its coming in and going out in small batches to make everyone happy. However, in a few months, when everyone kicks into High gear, if there still isn't any Domestic ammo (especially Federal) I will have to lean toward the DHS stockpiling.

What you probably won't see anytime soon is an abundance of domestic .22 Unfortunatly it always took second fiddle to bigger caliber production.

Originally posted by six67seven
Not to mention in this HuffPost article the DHS ADMITS to buying 1.6 billion rounds. And they try to explain WHY they are buying so many rounds.

Yeah... deny ignorance. Great job buddy!!

The Homeland Security Department wants to buy more than 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition in the next four or five years. It says it needs them – roughly the equivalent of five bullets for every person in the United States – for law enforcement agents in training and on duty.

Dixon said one of the contracts would allow Homeland Security to buy up to 750 million rounds of ammunition over the next five years for its training facilities. The rounds are used for basic and advanced law enforcement training for federal law enforcement agencies under the department's umbrella. The facilities also offer firearms training to tens of thousands of federal law enforcement officers. More than 90 federal agencies and 70,000 agents and officers used the department's training center last year.

The rest of the 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition would be purchased by Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the federal government's second largest criminal investigative agency.

ICE's ammunition requests in the last year included:

_450 million rounds of .40-caliber duty ammunition

_40 million rounds of rifle ammunition a year for as many as five years, for a total bullet-buy of 200 million rounds

_176,000 rifle rounds on a separate contract

_25,000 blank rounds

The Homeland Security ammo buy is not the first time the government's bullets purchases have sparked concerns on the Internet. The same thing happened last year when the Social Security Administration posted a notice that it was buying 174,000 hollow point bullets.

LOL. That link shows they currently do not have a stockpile of 1.6 billion bullets. The article says over the next 5 years. IMO, it is purely an accounting trick so their funding does not get cut as I have explained before.