The Summoning of Russia and Iran to Israel - Ezekiel 35-39

You know, it i hardly surprising that there is a hatred in the past of the ancient Israelis. You have to remember that, according to the very book from 700 B.C. you mentioned, God ordered the Hebrews to come in to the land of Israel and kill every man, woman, and child of the Caananites. These ancient people you put on a pedestal (and I do not hold modern Jewish people responsible for those actions) are guilty of genocide, pure and simple, no sugar coating. They also conquered a land that was not theirs absent a several thousand year old book legislating their taking of the land.

It is time that Jewish and Christian people look these things in the eye and call it for what it is. I showed my good Jewish friend Jeff the passages in the Bible talking about killing everybody because they were inpure, had the wrong beliefs, and would pollute the race of David. His response, "Sounds just like Hitler."

reply to post by Quetzalcoatl14


What a useless post.
Showing indoctrinated modernism.
and Ignorance.

...those peoples, who lived in that area,
were the offspring of satan, himself.

With no possibility to repent whatsoever.
They had but a 1 track mind: to continue their poisoned DNA.

THIS is the reason for those wars,
and for the, seemingly, unmerciful attitude towards them.
They would not change.
Never
Ever.

JUST LIKE THE CURRENT INHABITANTS OF PRESENT 'ISRAEL'.

oh and you asked a 'jew' about this ?
you may have well ask a mafioso about legal laws.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Huh, well... you're right.
Excuse me while I go and find someone I won't suffer to live and stone them to death...

Are you American? We did the same to 70 million Indians. This doesn't make me the one that did it, nor does it speak to my life here in this day and age. Are you European; Serbian; Russian or whatever? Doesn't matter. Your people did horrible things.

Did God order this? The Son of God is Adam, the father of mankind and Adam the Christ. We are all produced from Adam and we are also his forefathers as Adam hangs on a cross. The Lord of the OT is the Son of God, the first born over all creation.

Colossians 1

15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

1 Cor 15

If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”[f]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

1 Cor 10

16 Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ? 17 Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all share the one loaf.

We are all from ONE loaf.

No need to blame Adam. You blame yourself in the process. Job knew this:

Job 19

25 I know that my redeemer[c] lives,
and that in the end he will stand on the earth.[d]
26 And after my skin has been destroyed,
yet[e] in[f] my flesh I will see God;
27 I myself will see him
with my own eyes—I, and not another.
How my heart yearns within me!
28 “If you say, ‘How we will hound him,
since the root of the trouble lies in him,[g]’
29 you should fear the sword yourselves;
for wrath will bring punishment by the sword,
and then you will know that there is judgment.

Careful blaming God for the error. The root of the trouble is not in God. It is in the one that also redeemed us from that error. He paid your price.

Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl14
You know, it i hardly surprising that there is a hatred in the past of the ancient Israelis. You have to remember that, according to the very book from 700 B.C. you mentioned, God ordered the Hebrews to come in to the land of Israel and kill every man, woman, and child of the Caananites. These ancient people you put on a pedestal (and I do not hold modern Jewish people responsible for those actions) are guilty of genocide, pure and simple, no sugar coating. They also conquered a land that was not theirs absent a several thousand year old book legislating their taking of the land.

It is time that Jewish and Christian people look these things in the eye and call it for what it is. I showed my good Jewish friend Jeff the passages in the Bible talking about killing everybody because they were inpure, had the wrong beliefs, and would pollute the race of David. His response, "Sounds just like Hitler."

edit on 26-2-2013 by Quetzalcoatl14 because: I wanted to denote "ancient Israelis," not present. Big difference

reply to post by Lone12


Lol, you just mentioned that it was okay for the Hebrews to commit genocide because the Caananites had "polluted DNA." Christians will often excuse the genocide because they will say such things as:

"God had to keep the lineage of David pure. Those Caananites would defile the pure blood of God's Children."

"Satan was going to use them to corrupt God's plan for the Chosen People."

Um,,,, that is EXACTLY WHAT HITLER SAID ABOUT THE JEWS DURING WORLD WAR II, that they would defile the race of the Germans. That the Germans were the supreme race, chosen, and had the right to rule. He said that the blood of the Jew and also other races had to be removed to retain the purity of the German/Aryan race.

WAKE UP! Its the same racist, genocidal stuff. But you can't see it because you are blinded by religion.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


With all due respect, did you even read my post. I specifically stated that modern day Jewish people are not responsible for what happened in the Old Testament. Just like, I am not responsible for the European genocide of Native Americans (which was also wrong and cloaked in quasi-religious terms). The Europeans too justified taking the Americas because the "savages" did not have the right beliefs (Christianity) and did not behave the same way. This story is as old as time.

What I am saying is, I can call it like it is with the Americas, Israel, Germany (i am German by the way and detest what happened during WWII), because I am not overly religious and seek truth and justice, even if my own people are in question. Fundamentalist Christians (and Orthodox Jews) have trouble "calling it like it is" with the atrocities in the Old Testament because if they did their "holy book" would be called into question. Admitting that 1) God ordered genocide 2) That it was wrong or mistakes as you say = realizing that the Bible is NOT without error. Unless you believe in a God that condones genocide. In that case, you are no better than Hitler. Hitler believed God was on his side.

Not a problem. I understood what you were saying, but you aimed this at God. I was just saying not to blame God. We really shouldn't blame our redeemer either, but the outline I provide for you shows that it is not God that ordered anything. It was the Son of God. As I pointed out, that is you and I and all of humanity. It's a real cognitive dissonance if you have never realized we are all from one soul. That one soul is being raised as a Son in the wilderness. God only provides the environment to engage what comes after. We are the only ones who can take the blame from there.

Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl14
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

With all due respect, did you even read my post. I specifically stated that modern day Jewish people are not responsible for what happened in the Old Testament. Just like, I am not responsible for the European genocide of Native Americans (which was also wrong and cloaked in quasi-religious terms). The Europeans too justified taking the Americas because the "savages" did not have the right beliefs (Christianity) and did not behave the same way. This story is as old as time.

What I am saying is, I can call it like it is with the Americas, Israel, Germany (i am German by the way and detest what happened during WWII), because I am not overly religious and seek truth and justice, even if my own people are in question. Fundamentalist Christians (and Orthodox Jews) have trouble "calling it like it is" with the atrocities in the Old Testament because if they did their "holy book" would be called into question. Admitting that 1) God ordered genocide 2) That it was wrong or mistakes as you say = realizing that the Bible is NOT without error. Unless you believe in a God that condones genocide. In that case, you are no better than Hitler. Hitler believed God was on his side.

reply to post by Quetzalcoatl14

What I am saying is, I can call it like it is with the Americas, Israel, Germany (i am German by the way and detest what happened during WWII), because I am not overly religious and seek truth and justice, even if my own people are in question. Fundamentalist Christians (and Orthodox Jews) have trouble "calling it like it is" with the atrocities in the Old Testament because if they did their "holy book" would be called into question. Admitting that 1) God ordered genocide 2) That it was wrong or mistakes as you say = realizing that the Bible is NOT without error. Unless you believe in a God that condones genocide. In that case, you are no better than Hitler. Hitler believed God was on his side.

I do understand that you are not blaming God. You are saying that the God in the OT is not the God of Love. If you know the excluded middle argument of the Son being raised, you can then see the significance of why the OT is different than the NT. The Son was growing up. In the end, that Son is all of us together.

reply to post by Quetzalcoatl14


You are absolutely right.

And your line of thought is THE safest way for Evil to keep you imprisoned.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Okay, well, it seems like we can talk then. So, I was raised a Christian, with the view that both the OT and NT are the unaltered, perfect representation of God's truth. In the example of ancient OT genocide, I do not blame God for this happening.

However, once I began to read the Old Testament, I came to the conclusion that:

1) I believe in God in general
2) I do not believe that the God of justice would order genocide for all men, women, and children.
3) Therefore, these passages represent the ignorance, tribalism, or even racism of this ancient tribe we now call the Hebrew or Israelites.
4) These passages do not represent what God really wanted.
5) Thus, the Bible is not without error and is NOT the perfect representation of God.

This is one example, among several. We have to educate ourselves on everything, and then, using our God-given minds, make judgements. Just like, many people pronounce judgements on Hinduism or atheism. Before you assert that I have no right to judge the Bible or God, or that God "confounds the wise," realize that anybody could make that argument from any other belief system religion, or lack thereof. Such a statement does not answer fundamental questions.

reply to post by Lone12


So, what you are saying is that if someone is able to, relatively compared to most religious people, be objective about patterns in behavior and history, that they are more likely to be "imprisoned by evil."

That is ridiculous. A bigger danger is that most people, in the name of comfort and getting ahead, can self-justify just about anything. For these reasons, religious people across history, as well as communists and other groups, have killed or suppressed all manners of "others," marginalizing "others" due to different beliefs, looks, behaviors, and so on.

I am far less likely to be "imprisoned by evil" if I am able to think for myself. By you not being able to think for yourself, you are open to all kinds of manipulation by people and also unable to see abuses by people from your own traditional background. This happens all over the world, with people justifying negative actions by their own religion, ethnic group, or nation. This is one aspect of "evil."

reply to post by Quetzalcoatl14


see,
one has 2 options to look at this:

either the modernistic viuew [ like yourself]
which poses that ' killing is wrong - indifferent even it are chronic murderers '


or, if one is talking about a chronical DNA defect,
meaning ' murders who are incapable ever of improving ' .

Yóur solution may séem ' humane'
...but that is because you have no eye for the spiritual powers behind .

And that Evil is always ' hiding behind souls'
like a gunman hides behind a child, threatening to kill the child.


so
what would you do?
how to kill the murderer, withóut getting the child killed as well ?

You see the problem here..?

reply to post by Lone12


Okay, so once again you are going down an extremely slippery slope. You say that people can be killed if they have a chronic DNA problem.

Unfortunately, that view has been used many times over the centuries to exploit and suppress others.

Hitler said that the blood and race of the Jews was subhuman or faulty. As you said, a "chronic dna problem."

The North Koreans imprison one's entire family if you do wrong as they believe that it is a "chronic dna problem."

The ancient Hebrews killed the ancient Caananites because, as you say, they had a "chronic dna problem."

First of all, saying that an entire group is faulty is racist or ethnicist , pure and simple. Second, trying to wipe-out said group is called genocide, pure and simple.

Finally, who is anybody to decide such "faulty dna?" And, if one group is able to do it then how can we judge others for doing it? What goes around comes around buddy.

...yóur option would be,
to " make a deal with the murderer "

as in the ' cant we all get along sort of thing '

but
evil will not change - nor rest
and will seek any moment to murder your child.

That you compare ' hitler' to ' killing canaanites',
is an excuse, whispered to you by Evil, itself.

reply to post by Quetzalcoatl14


You are defending satan himself love.

This is exactly what hé would say.

tell me -
i suppose you have no children yet ?

answer me -
what would yóu do,
to can take out the murderer who holds a knife to your child,
without risk he kills your child ?

hm ?

reply to post by Lone12


No, you have zero evidence absent a tribal document from several thousand years ago to justify the killing of the Caananites.

You have no evidence of how they really were, only that they weren't Hebrew.

You have no evidence of anything.

But, because you dearly want to believe in this "holy book," you absolutely have to justify the passages where genocide is included. If you were to question it, your book wouldn't be so holy.

The only thing evil here is people across the world still justifying exploiting, suppressing, and killing people of other groups and belief systems.

and now, please, take it a bit broader:

see the ' child' as ' a nation '
in this case: the young Israelite nation, inbetween the Wolves of nations around,
who were Giants - offspring of satan himself.

Please remember again the murderer hostaging your child.

Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl14
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Okay, well, it seems like we can talk then. So, I was raised a Christian, with the view that both the OT and NT are the unaltered, perfect representation of God's truth. In the example of ancient OT genocide, I do not blame God for this happening.

However, once I began to read the Old Testament, I came to the conclusion that:

1) I believe in God in general
2) I do not believe that the God of justice would order genocide for all men, women, and children.
3) Therefore, these passages represent the ignorance, tribalism, or even racism of this ancient tribe we now call the Hebrew or Israelites.
4) These passages do not represent what God really wanted.
5) Thus, the Bible is not without error and is NOT the perfect representation of God.

This is one example, among several. We have to educate ourselves on everything, and then, using our God-given minds, make judgements. Just like, many people pronounce judgements on Hinduism or atheism. Before you assert that I have no right to judge the Bible or God, or that God "confounds the wise," realize that anybody could make that argument from any other belief system religion, or lack thereof. Such a statement does not answer fundamental questions.

edit on 26-2-2013 by Quetzalcoatl14 because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-2-2013 by Quetzalcoatl14 because: (no reason given)

I understand what you are saying with this. Here is the thing. You will never find that denotative truth you are looking for apart from knowing one thing. You can look into all ideologies and books. I have done this. You can look at all ways and modes of thinking when it comes to virtue. You can examine all areas of knowledge, yet you won't find the axiom apart from paradox. There is only one axiom and the broad picture the Bible paints is unified. If we say that God lost control of his Word, that would not be entirely inaccurate. His Word is the Son. The Bible is a record of this with all the good, bad, ugly, pleasant and joyful truths. It hides nothing. This is one of the highest truths we find. The very highest truth is the will of God to give and receive only. Love is the fulfillment of the law, a lesson the Son had to demonstrate to have the words of the Father ring true.

And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."

Our father is Adam. When Jesus said, "I and the Father are One," what did he mean? Not what you might have thought at first. Jesus is not God, yet is the only begotten of creation. We are all part of that one loaf. It was baking and 2000 years ago, it was finished. The heel of the loaf crushes the head of Satan.

Genesis 3

14 So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this,

“Cursed are you above all livestock
and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring[a] and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.”

If you don't get it now, you will. Faith is both our faithfulness to God, but also his to us. His word is true, even if it is not the easiest to read in places. God is still Good. The Son is grown. As Christ is, so shall we be.

reply to post by Quetzalcoatl14


You are right.
I wave you goodbye then.

and i wish you luck with your syncretism
wanting to have an utopian society, an Osiris new world one,
because you choose to deny the existance of a higher dimension.

Goodluck
with your Brave New World.

- but *i* refuse to be part of it.

reply to post by Lone12


Not to antagonize you, but your example doesn't work.

According to the Bible, the Israelites came from Egypt into the land of Caanan and conquered it. They were the "wolves" or the "murderers" in this case, the aggressors. In this case, the Caananites were invaded by a foreign entity and were thus the victims or "childs" as you prefer to use.

It is very "Orwellian" or "Brave New World"-esque of you to turn things completely around.