ObamaCare: The costs

I feel that the cost of ObamaCare is something that's not very understood by us all.

healthreform.kff.org...
First, let's use this calculator see how much the health care will cost for the average household (2 parents, 2 children; 5 person family is not average since the total fertility rate is 2.1) making an income of $44,389.

Okay, they'll pay $2,500 while the government will pay 3.4 times as much with $5,400. $2,500 is pretty cheap, but look at how much the government is paying.

Next, let's see how many of these families it will take for the government to have to pay $1 trillion.

$1 trillion/$8,500 = 11.7 million. 11.7 million families. That's a lot.. no, that's only 15.2% of America. Now think of that debt getting higher and higher annually. The future doesn't look too good.

How much does it cost to buy all those weapons of war, aircraft carriers an all the ships for support, tanks planes, and the million other expensive weapons and missles? Or all those "contracted soldiers" at 60-100,000 dollars a year per mercenary. What kind of country do we live in when people complain more about helping each other than going broke killing people?

Get you priorities straight!

reply to post by LoneGunMan


I definitely agree we need to cut spending for those by a ton. We still need to find a cheaper way to make sure everyone has access to health care. Maybe cutting military spending would balance things out, but I don't know a ton about how the spending is done throughout the programs and such.

reply to post by LoneGunMan


Security always comes first.

Without that everything else is pointless.

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
How much does it cost to buy all those weapons of war, aircraft carriers an all the ships for support, tanks planes, and the million other expensive weapons and missles? Or all those "contracted soldiers" at 60-100,000 dollars a year per mercenary. What kind of country do we live in when people complain more about helping each other than going broke killing people?

Get you priorities straight!

As a matter of fact... Combined costs of the Afghan and Iraq wars as of 2011 came to right around $1 Trillion on overall cost. That represents about 100 billion per year. The D.O.D. spends out between 600-900 Billion over the same general period, per year. (10-15% actually went to war costs....and the majority of what remains went to Research/Development and procurement ... i.e. Defense contractors)

By 2017...the Medicare/Medicaid programs will exceed 1 trillion combined total and SSI, in addition, will add a further 1 trillion or so.

So.. Yes, we have a Department of Defense that is out of control. We also have decades of criminal mismanaged Government funding to support (or NOT support) medical and social program costs. You know what gets me tho?? The thread is about the Affordable Care Act, not DOD mismanagement. What does one have to do with somehow justifying the wrongs of the other? DOD just makes a bleak situation even worse ..not somehow justified.

Originally posted by Hopechest
reply to post by LoneGunMan

 

Security always comes first.

Without that everything else is pointless.

We could cut our defense program by 50% and still be safe. We just need to stop sticking our noses in other peoples business and start minding our own.

Originally posted by catswithbigpaws
I feel that the cost of ObamaCare is something that's not very understood by us all.

Let me stop you here. Because you state that then go on to talk like you know about the bill, while you talk about things you don't understand.

The government isn't going to be paying for most people's healthcare. This is a fallacy that is being perpetuated by republicans non stop. It' just not true. Most health insurance will still be covered through employers, which has been the case for a while now.


You're using that tool very ignorantly.

I don't think we need to cut Military Spending but how about all the PORK SPENDING, Here is a list of some of the great things we spend money on.

MY: Personal favorite is the Deer Underpass
www.foxnews.com...

2012 Government spending your tax dollars:

102: Protecting a Michigan insect collection from other insects ($187,632)

101: Highway beautified by fish art in Washington ($10,000)
...
2: Solar panels for climbing gym in Colorado ($157,800)

1: Grant for one Massachusetts university for "robobees" (miniature flying robot bees) ($2 million)

GRAND TOTAL: $4,891,645,229

I really am at a loss for words about this program...well...almost.

I disagree with it and I have since it started. It inflates costs and all positives and negatives aside, it is demanding that citizens buy a product from a private corporation or be penalized in the form of higher taxes. I have a big problem with that.

To me, this is cronyism at it's finest. You, Joe Public, must now buy a product from a for profit company. Said company will be able to alter it's policies and premiums at will to insure their profit margins...also, keep in mind that all insurance companies are backed up by securities (you know, Wall Street). Insurance companies invest in the market and that is how they can accumulate the cash flow to pay off policy claims (well, theoretically). So, now that you HAVE to have this product, the GOV has basically propped up an entire industry, protected it from competition and put a constant cash stream into the hands of their backers...the securities. Must be nice!

If the POTUS really cared and wanted healthcare for everyone, he should have pushed for a single payer (socialized) system. But he did not. Instead he chose to prop up a private industry and their criminal backers on Wall Street. Is this totally shocking too anyone?

The soft hearted will say it's better than nothing and I disagree...freedom is better than being forced to buy a product under threat of punsihment.

For what it is worth, our insurance is through employer and it costs about $600.00 a month for 3 of us. It's not the greatest but it works in a pinch.

My problem has always been what I stated above ...this "spreading the pain around" by making everyone carry insurance to prop up the industry is just BS...as long as healthcare and "life" is wrapped in a for profit package...we will all lose and there is nothing anyone can do about it now...I would say try to stay healthy but you are forced to pay for the insurance so I say...use it...often. If they are going to make you pay for something...get your money's worth out of it.

reply to post by 19KTankCommander

Your list is... umm.... mighty lengthy. Yeah... Lengthy... and I'm sure that's truly just a fraction of what is there to be seen if someone drills THAT far down into line item levels of the budget. I only went down to the agency/department level and it took me literal weeks. I never got near that level of outrage. (sigh)

In a list of brain freeze though, a couple brought me up short, even by these standards.

77: Retrofitting light switches with motion sensors for one company in Arizona ($800,000)

76: Removing graffiti along 100 miles of flood-control ditches in California ($837,000)

Just HOW many light switches can one company have, anyway?? I actually looked. Industrial level motion/light switches are roughly $100, so.....for some unknown reason, the Government spent enough to buy 8,000 of them? Yeah... Oookay. How many corrupt bureaucrats does it take to change a....Oh nvm.

...and the graffiti 'wars' in California would be funny if not so tragic a thing to see money wasted on within a state already in such bad shape all the way around. Over $800,000 to clean it and what? 6 months? less? ..and maybe $800 in spray paint to make use of the generously cleaned surfaces all prepared for another artist. Ugh...

Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by Hopechest
reply to post by LoneGunMan

 

Security always comes first.

Without that everything else is pointless.

We could cut our defense program by 50% and still be safe. We just need to stop sticking our noses in other peoples business and start minding our own.

I know that but that was not the point I was responding to.

There are some people that believe we need to put domestic programs above national secuity ones and that would be a mistake in my opinion.

reply to post by 19KTankCommander


I don't really see a problem with any one of those. More importantly, I don't see any source material you've linked to so that I don't have to take your word on what any one of those is.

Nevermind, I found it: Presidential Chronicles 2010-2012

Originally posted by catswithbigpaws
I feel that the cost of ObamaCare is something that's not very understood by us all.

healthreform.kff.org...
First, let's use this calculator see how much the health care will cost for the average household (2 parents, 2 children; 5 person family is not average since the total fertility rate is 2.1) making an income of $44,389.

Okay, they'll pay $2,500 while the government will pay 3.4 times as much with $5,400. $2,500 is pretty cheap, but look at how much the government is paying.

Next, let's see how many of these families it will take for the government to have to pay $1 trillion.

$1 trillion/$8,500 = 11.7 million. 11.7 million families. That's a lot.. no, that's only 15.2% of America. Now think of that debt getting higher and higher annually. The future doesn't look too good.

edit on 24-2-2013 by catswithbigpaws because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-2-2013 by catswithbigpaws because: (no reason given)

If the point is to be informed here.

The cost of healthcare in the US has risen an average of 150% every ten years for the last two
decades.

Couldn't be that some people are ignoring this fact and pretending that this trend is new???

America can blow up the Earth hundreds of times over.

What more do we need?

reply to post by 19KTankCommander


And that pork, is part of the reason why the US has always been at the forefront of technology
and culture, investing in things that corporate America deems to be unsavory.

Second those funds, go from the government, to people where they are spent out in the economy
and recaptured by business owners, those funds are part of economic activity in America anyway
you slice it.

Originally posted by Ghost375

Originally posted by catswithbigpaws
I feel that the cost of ObamaCare is something that's not very understood by us all.

Let me stop you here. Because you state that then go on to talk like you know about the bill, while you talk about things you don't understand.

The government isn't going to be paying for most people's healthcare. This is a fallacy that is being perpetuated by republicans non stop. It' just not true. Most health insurance will still be covered through employers, which has been the case for a while now.


You're using that tool very ignorantly.

Seems to me you are the ignorant one. You are not paying attention to what is happening, workers are being fired, employers are eliminating insurance coverage or reducing workers to part time, rates are going up even faster than ever. These are all a result of Obamacare.

When people lose jobs, can't get fulltime work, or find an employer to give them insurance, than yes the governments share of healthcare expenditures will be going up. Will they be paying the majority, maybe not right away but with healthcare going up 10 - 15% a year and gdp increasing at most 2% a year it is inevitable that yes nearly all will fall on the government within a very few years. Well it actually won't because the government will no longer be able to borrow a dime, and therefore will be unable to pay for a large portion of it, but that is another discussion.

The idea that companies can continue to absorb 10 - 15% increases every year in health coverage or will when there are alternatives for labor outside the country is absolute stupidity. I know liberals want to claim healthcare is a right, and the government should provide it, and that's all well and good in theory. Here is the problem that liberals seem to have an incredibly hard time comprehending - there is no free lunch, money does not come from thin air, and the government only gets its money from the labor of its citizenry.

Our medical system costs are double the rest of the industrialized world, and our system is guaranteed to collapse. The system has leaches at every level, the insurance companies, lawyers, hospital chains and other providers, drug companies, state government. Obamacare is adding additional federal bureaucracy to the system, and getting the IRS involved, to take their cut to make a ridiculously inefficient system, even more inefficient.

This country is in really, really bad shape, and the main reason is 95% of the population has no clue our way of life is not remotely sustainable. We are competing against the rest of the world, our education system sucks, our work ethic is eroding, and more and more people feel entitled to government freebies which are a myth, every freebie makes the country weaker. People, and especially liberals are in for a very rude awakening.

reply to post by catswithbigpaws


My Prediction...

You will get a letter from your insurance, It will explain that your current plan, the plan you chose to fit your individual needs, does not comply with Obamacare and thus had to be cancelled. It will say that you shouldn't worry because you have been automatically moved to a new plan that does meet the new Obamacare requirements. The details of your new plan are just excellent. You are now covered for a bunch of things you don't need, like mental illness and substance abuse inpatient treatment coverage. The result of the requirements will cause your deductible to go from $1500 up to $2500, that's 66%. Your limit on annual out of pocket expenses will go up from $1500 to $6350, up 323%. The best part! your monthly premium went up from $139.50 to $229.19, an increase of 65%! you get to pay MORE for something you don't even need; isn't that just wonderful... remember when our fearless leader said if we like our current plan we can keep it? LOL

You know what chaps my ass? The idea of a goddamned tobacco surcharge making Americans who use tobacco doubly boned by the freaking idiots in DC. What in the blue everloving hell is the damn $1.00/pack federal plus $4, $5, $6+ per pack tax the states levy supposedly for? Weren't the same worthless trolls in Congress calling for those taxes to pay the health costs of smokers some years ago? Why just tobacco? It may increase the costs FOR SOME users, but then so does promiscuous sex, alcoholism, extreme sports, the average American's diet, etc. While I'm not well versed in the treatment costs or procedures involved, I'm willing to bet that a case of the HIV is not cheap to treat. I also know from personal experience that MRIs and the like on injured joints along with orthopedic surgery are VERY expensive, so maybe while they're stressing over the dip in my lip they should also take a peek at the weekend tennis player that blows out his knee trying to backhand a hard return.

I get government run healthcare from the VA. Best care I've ever had in my life. In fact, if I'd been still enrolled in a private for-profit healthcare insurance plan in November of 2011, I would have either died or been permanently crippled as my doctors waited on approval for an MRI. The VA owns their own MRI, and the thing was waiting for me when I got to the emergency room. The doctors are all real doctors, and they're okay with the salaries they get as VA doctors. What's missing is the Wall St. investor profits that depend on me not getting the care that I need, when I need it.

Screw the stock traders. Let them make money off someone else's misery. I'm just sorry that you folks have to fight HMOs for your treatment options. I have been living since November 2011 on bonus time, and with no loss in functionality, and I know that it wouldn't be this way if I hadn't enrolled in the VA's government run, single-payer healthcare system. I'm so glad that a pal of mine talked me into enrolling when he did.

proximo

Seems to me you are the ignorant one. You are not paying attention to what is happening, workers are being fired, employers are eliminating insurance coverage or reducing workers to part time, rates are going up even faster than ever. These are all a result of Obamacare.

Actually, these are all the result of an employer trying to get out of having to give anything at all to his/her employees. Period. If an employer has 50 or more employees, he has to cover them, but he/she gets a tax break to help defray the cost. Any jerk who punishes his/her own employees as a result of this healthcare insurance law doesn't deserve to have employees that give a sh*t about his/her economic success going forward.

This movement, by some employers, to reduce their own employees hours, while expecting the same productivity from them, and blaming it on Obamacare, is the worst example of what's happened to the American entrepreneur in recent decades. It used to be that a business owner had pride and character, but this new generation of crybabies are a disgrace to the institution of business and entrepreneurship. Baby boomers and their crybaby kids. What a joke.