The Lost Civilizations of North America?

reply to post by SLAYER69

I greet you Slayer69,
When i get a reel to reel I am going to find out myself and ever since then I been fascinated by them old stories, of the migrations back and forth, how some sacred areas where abandoned so quick that food was still on he hearths and such, many sound so unbelievable and the way they described beings that never been found to be in existence today, many call them myths with no proof.
Not to many full bloods like myself now a days, and many clans and tribes becoming absolute, extinct.
Awesome post and look forward to more like this.

If you have an interest in ancient civilizations and ancient buildings, I'd recommend watching the History Channel show Ancient Aliens. It has more to do with the whole idea aliens influenced humanity. However, they show a lot of ancient structures around the world, and is pretty interesting to take a look at some of them.

Edit: here's a video about that show. It's a bit long, but it is worth the watch.

reply to post by Lingweenie

You might want to take a peek at Slayer's thread history. He could probably host one of the shows.

ETA: On second thought. Maybe not. He wouldn't attribute near enough to ancient aliens. They'd boot him off the show.

Excellent Thread another area of the world largely under recongnized and sterotyped to death have nothing against nomadic cultures for they have their romantic appeal but that's certainly wasen't all there was.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Well I find this topic, SLAYER69, one of the most interesting. I watched the first video, and plan to watch the second one. I think in the first one they missed an important point. They talk about what peoples the colonies encountered and that these people were passed over as savages. What they really encountered was a native population pulling it's self out of a complete devastation. Not more than two hundred years earlier. 9 out of every 10 people died from disease. That will put a crimp in your social structure.


Looking forward to the second one and I hope it sheds some light on the reality of North America before Columbus.

Thanks for putting this up.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Awesome as always Slayer. I grew up in Ohio. The mound builder culture as it was called when I grew up was an everyday in your face kinda thing. There were mounds everywhere. As I grew older, I explored more of the caves and Flint Ridge in southern and SE Ohio. When I became a pilot, it was hard NOT to notice forms and structure from the air. (Long time ago-before strip malls were invented). The native culture was still there just below the surface if one was willing to look. Its been almost 50 years since the days when I used to explore the neighborhood on my horse, but I guess that says something right there doesnt it? The plane I learned in was open cockpit BTW. What kid owns his own horse nowadays, can afford one, knows how to care for and ride,etc, etc. Is there an app for that?

As I recall archeological digs into any of the mounds was a rareity, many were just fenced in in random places, twelve foot high and topped with barbed wire surrounding them. Of course, as a kid, we knew ways in and would find a way in or climb them. I havent been back there in years, but even as recently as twenty years ago there were still mounds fenced in surrounded by suburbs now, but was woods/farmland when I grew up.

Even the Historical museum in Columbus, which was pretty ahead of its time barely mentioned this culture. It is too bad so much was lost from the time of Desoto until the pilgrims landed. So much is missing. I have always expected some fascinating revelation about Native American culture to be revealed.

Tired and with flu now. S&F Will return to finish reading

I live in Cleveland Ohio
And in southern Ohio we have the Hopewell indian mounds
Ive done some research in the past about it
From what I remember they built the mounds to track the moon an the sun for farming , hunting and things like that
I also remember reading part of the site got destroyed for farm land or roads before public outcry put a stop to further damage and its a tourist site now.
I'm pretty sure there's a small museum dedicated to the Hopewell mounds
I've always wanted to see it person ,maybe this summer I'll take the family on a road trip

Thanks for posting
S&F

O ya I would have added pics or a link. If I wasn't on a junky uniden tablet

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Hi folks,

First time on here.

Regardless of what your views might be but if only from a historical perspective, look into what the Book Of Mormon tells us about the inhabitants of the American continent and how they got there. There are many answers to many questions posed on here.

If you want proof, it's there.

Cheers.

Of course there's accounts by the Mormons in their 'Book of Mormon' which some subscribe to. Dated later in time however.
Thats not to say that I subscribe to this, in fact I had always believed it a work of fiction originally written by a Dr. Anton as a Novel.

But I'm always keen to see if recent discoveries happen to correspond with any LDS claims relating to their ancient peoples that were said to exist.

reply to post by SLAYER69

I thought the "ancient canals" had been discussed before, along with evidence that what is being shown as "ancient canals" is actually modern (1800's onward) earthworks and river channels. I know that I've seen his work before and the posts that I saw were easily debunked by taking Google Earth (which he uses) and going back through time to view earlier satellite photos as well as looking at older topological maps and other maps of the area.

That said, yes, there are very ancient cultures and civilizations on the North American continent that you wouldn't be aware of unless you studied archaeology. I confess that I don't know much about them, myself -- I do know when I was researching the topic for a paper, that some linguistic evidence put the Chumash here as early as 9,000 years ago. They had a fairly organized culture and some highly sophisticated boatbuilding technology.

But I haven't kept up on Cahokia. Maybe after August...

reply to post by Byrd


Thanks Byrd

I think you are focused on only the canals and earthworks known from the 1800's onwards? while the video in question talks about many possible canals and other earthworks over many areas and quite a few covering vast areas. To imply they have all been debunked doesn't seem logical imho.

You don't believe there are yet to be discovered locations and earthworks from the Native population from pre 1800s?


As always though your input is very appreciated.

This is a great thread, thank you Slayer and others who are contributing.

I am interested in the engraved stone tablets that have been found over the centuries from mounds and other sites in N.A.

I am looking on the net for more info on these, but there doesn't seem to be much about translation. Just wondering if there has been much recent academic work done on tablets and what they say?

reply to post by passit


A great many artifacts have gone missing over the past 200+ years or so. Which is a shame. There are many in museums. I question just how much have ended up in attics and private collections where the present holder/owners of such objects have no real clue as to their true value to the history of the region in which they were first discovered.

S + F as usual, another great thread.

We have some mounds in south central Minnesota that are pretty cool. I plan to spend more time there this summer because I'm very interested in our lost ancient history. I was planning a trip to South America for this summer but my health has caused my trip fund to go to the Mayo Clinic instead.

What interests me most is that the Sioux have only been in MN for about 400 years, so they didn't build the mounds.

We also have the Kennsington Runestone, which interests me also.

Oak Island is another North American anomoly in that the entire island appears to be manmade.


As for the videos, I don't give much credence to the canal video. Most of what he is calling ancient canals would have been well above sea level during the ice age. I liked the first one though.

Originally posted by Blackmarketeer
Hi Slayer; an excellent topic, one which will generate pages of rich info, I'm sure. But before that, I do want to debunk the "ancient canals" alluded to in the video - they are modern creations.

From an earlier ATS topic: Ancient Canals in America

He seems to be assigning ancient origins to much later constructs. Some of these channels and canals he refers to were made in modern times. And from these negligible Google Earth images he's conjecturing "ancient pre-historic" civilizations. That is, plain and simple, very bad science.

He doesn't help his case but stating a "pre-diluvial America" (sic). I'll agree that there was a "biblical" flood, it occurred in Sumer perhaps around 2500-2400 BCE, the textual record of which was appropriated by the Hebrews for their bible, but there never was a single, world wide flood. America certainly may have enjoyed its share of floods and changing coast lines, but there has never been a "pre-diluvial" America.

If you want to see true Paleo-channels, Google that term, especially related to the Nile in Africa.

Interesting images presented on this site, but again, the majority of them are MODERN creations, not the handiwork of an ancient and lost civilization.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b464dc5edaa5.jpg[/atsimg]
dredgingtoday.com
"Dredging operation on the Kissimmee River channel between Lake Hatchineha and Lake Kissimmee"


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/caf6ace0257e.jpg[/atsimg]
dredgingtoday.com
"Dredging operation on the Houma Navigation Canal"

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ef3840bd122a.jpg[/atsimg]

This is clearly a dredging canal. The Army Corps of Engineers is responsible for most of these, without constant dredging these canals would quickly silt up. Within a few decades you would never know they were there. Some of these canals will stretch for miles, and some are abandoned. The siltation in gulf areas is rampant.

Biblical floods / antediluvian landscapes:

Of course the end of the ice age brought inundated coast lines, and impacted early mans coastal, river, or lake settlements. Doggerland vanished (who knows how many Neanderthal cave dwellings or settlements disappeared with that?), but this is straying into a straw-man argument. Displaying modern dredging canals and arguing that post ice-age flooding is proof of a vanished civilization doesn't really work for me.

I'm not arguing against the possibility of such, just that this guy is going to have to go a lot deeper than Google Earth images before he starts proclaiming an undiscovered civilization.

Not to toot my own horn but from a thread I posted a while back on ATS: Excavation of ancient Native American canal offers insight - gives a great insight into Amerindians canal building skills (at least in and around ancient Naples, FL). Hanslune made an excellent reply in that thread regarding the Tequesta, Tocobaga, Calusa, and the Hohokam people.

Cheers

reply to post by mglsite


These are Pipeline canals. I know because I work down in Louisiana and have dug some. The excavated spot on the side is a location for a Drilling Rig.

Mystery Solved

great thread Slayer! really enjoying this one!

one thing i would like to add is the similarity between native american mounds and earthen and stone mounds that are found all over ireland. the mounds in ireland date from roughly 4000bc. apparently the bones of the dead were buriend in these mounds and "cairns" as they are known in ireland, and through solar, lunar and equinox allignments the spirit or essence of these people (usually royalty or higher class citizens) was redistributed across the land through the structures and hills in ceremonial events. i wonder if a similar belief was held by the native americans.

i think its also worth mentioning the voyage of St. Brendan, along with many other irish monks, who apparently voyaged to north America long before columbus.

en.wikipedia.org...

"Possible link to North America
While the story is often assumed to be a religious allegory, there has been considerable discussion as to whether the legends are based on actual events, including speculation that the Isle of the Blessed was actually North America. There is a St Brendan Society that celebrates the belief that Brendan was the first European to reach North America. Tim Severin has demonstrated that it is possible that a leather-clad boat such as the one described in the Navigator could have reached North America."

Originally posted by Stewb
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Hi folks,

First time on here.

Regardless of what your views might be but if only from a historical perspective, look into what the Book Of Mormon tells us about the inhabitants of the American continent and how they got there. There are many answers to many questions posed on here.

If you want proof, it's there.

Cheers.

One of the large problems with the book of mormon as far as a history of north america in respect to, lets say, some white tribes being here.....is that this issue was a hot topic before Joe found his plates and all that went with that. It isnt as though Joe brought up the idea in a vacume and then everyone said wow. Believe it or not there was a French research society that looked into the idea as early as the late 1700s. The story told of a large white tribe living in Kentucky at one time was well known before Joe Smtih was even born.

reply to post by jimmccracken

Are you familiar with a Book called the Visions Of Eloh,supposedly it was the story of the Cherokee nation past down from oral tradition and put to paper in the Cherokee script after it was developed in the early1800rds and got translated into English in the 1980ts here is a little excerpt

.When we the (Cherokees) lived beyond the great waters back in the old country,the country was subject to great floods,first they build a great mound then decided to emigrate-they crossed on paths which later became submerged into the deep sea.
They settled and prospered until a strange race of men crossed the great waters and landed warriors who attacked the Cherokees. The Cherokees destroyed them with their clubs-and sent some of the prisoners back across the water in their canoes as a warning.
In a few more years another fleet of warriors came across the broad waters armed with bows and arrows,and landed on the shores.Again the Cherokees defeated them,and this time send the prisoners back in the their boats having set fire to their fleets with balls of resin.
At the seventh day one of the old wise men came out of the temple in the form of an eagle. he predicted that the warriors would not come for another seven years. When they did come again,the Cherokees were ready though many tribes lived far from where the battle took place. They had prepared poison in gourds which made the enemies faint,and thus they defeated the black invaders.And from that time till the white men came they lived in peace.

It is difficult to gauge what era this event took place,were the invaders Olmecs,Mayans or Aztecs or yet another group quite unknown? references to Black or dark-skinned warriors does not help much since dark-skinned people showed-up in their art.Now we have problem in trying to solve some ethnographic puzzles why are the invaders considerably darker than the Floridians and if we go further south we have what looked to be like white men with blond hair being sacrificed they arrived in skin boats like the Irish used to have and St.Brandon apperantly made use of.

White Men??


The men with the lite hair and skins came in boats the dark-skinned men are part of the community, let me state one thing the Black men need not be Africans in this case as the Luiza remodeled face put her type thousands of yrs back among the first Americans there are documented cases where continental Africans did make the trip I am not so sure if the above should include them.

Luiza first Amarican Brazil

Great ancesterss of the Olmecs??

Well with North America including Canada, I didn't notice anything about Canada here but I did find a piece of info about a ancient city along the north shore of Lake Ontario. Also in the page they mention a documentary called "Curse of the Axe' in which Ancient or midevil Spaniards had pre-contact before the Early Europeans. The Mantle people or Wendat(Huron) lived in the area for about 30 years, that's a really short time compared to other ancient civilizations.



Ancient NYC of Canada

Curse of the Axe