Christopher "Renegade Cop" Dorner: Was He Framed?

This mans death will be done by a drone and it will be televised or at least played over and over on the propaganda news outlets. This will be the justification of Drone use in America.

Again, I don't have a reason yet to believe that will happen, but if it does --

Let's just really hope it doesn't.

That said, the more I think about the timeline, the more it looks like a straight-up set-up on Dorner. It's the first actual confrontation reported which I mentioned in the previous pages that stands out to me, aside from the physical impossibility of getting Dorner in that darn backseat to commit the first murders.

From SUNDAY (the day Quan and Lawrence were killed) to THURSDAY (the day of the incident I'm discussing), Dorner does almost nothing at all.

We do not know where he was between Sunday and Tuesday.

On Tuesday, somebody with his ID checked into a Navy hotel, and never checked out.

On Wednesday night, possibly try to steal a boat and conveniently leave his wallet and his former commander's badge -- how and why did he have this? -- where they could be easily recovered and not, say, in the miles of water they could have fallen into instead.

Some speculate that Dorner planted the wallet himself as a false clue. The LAPD certainly have no problem planting evidence themselves. I call the boat incident a question mark for now -- all it tells us is that somebody wanted us to know (or believe) that Dorner was still active and out there. It happens to be the same night that he is named a suspect for the first time. Was the wallet integral to obtaining a warrant for his arrest?

So, this man who has declared open public war on the LAPD has, when he is named a suspect, so far supposedly killed two people assassin-style like he's some kind of magical, unrecordable car ninja, taking no credit at all for what is supposed to be an appeal to the people:

"The enemy combatants in LA are not the citizens and suspects, it’s the police officers." --Alleged Manifesto

And the most chilling quote of all, for me:

"I am the walking exigent circumstance you created."

We CTs could have a whole lot of fun with that one, hmm?

If it's a setup, the LAPD is getting anxious. He was supposed to try to run so they could catch him at the airport. Instead he just checked into a hotel and waited. They had to jack up the pressure, so they planted the wallet and named him a suspect.

Maybe that still didn't flush him out. Maybe he went into hiding as soon as he realized they liked him for the Quan/Lawrence killings.

Because the next time we meet him, it's in the weirdest confrontation I've ever heard of. Shortly after 1 AM Thursday "morning", one man goes up against a crew of LAPD, who are specifically there to be alert for this one man, takes out their vehicle but leaves just one of them with a minor flesh wound, and escapes the returning fire himself uninjured. The officers are "unable to pursue" due the the vehicle damage, according to the story -- and apparently also unfamiliar with the concept of "backup".

This is what really happens when an incident goes down on the street and the cops go looking for someone who fled: they send cars in every direction until they have the plausible area he could have reached boxed in and they close it off and start searching inward. And they find the perp, even when they're not already rage-tripping on being the guy who gets the kill shot.

That first incident happens in Corona. Thirty minutes later, Dorner appears again in Riverside, roughly 13 miles away. "Riverside police said two of its officers were shot in an ambush at an intersection...Dorner was named a suspect. Riverside police said they believe Dorner drove up to the officers' vehicle, which was stopped at a stoplight, and fired at the officers with a rifle."

At 1:00AM he can't do better than graze one cop's head when he's got the jump on them -- and at 1:30AM he has a RIFLE?

This is his last alleged appearance. The LAPD shoot two women in a blue pickup, and claim to be sorry, adding insult to injury. ONLY AFTER THIS INCIDENT does the LAPD release the Manifesto to the press.

Only after the LAPD itself shot some people did it release the manifesto.

Dorner's truck is found burning Thursday afternoon. The hunt moves to the mountains, the airspace is restricted, and then it turns out Black Rambo can also control the weather with his mind.

"270-pound, 6-foot Dorner..." could not possibly hide in the backseat of a car sufficiently so that two people could both finish getting in the car and closing the doors before they realized he was there.

He could have done it if he started shooting as soon as they opened the doors -- and why not, since that would be much bloodier and more public, which the LAPD tells us is what he wants.

He could have done it when they were outside the car, or hidden and shot them through the glass when they were in the car.

He could have waited in his truck outside the parking complex and hit them from there like he's supposedly done with the cops.

But none of that happened, because they were found inside the car only when someone noticed the driver's head slumped the next day. Which means no broken glass -- no open doors -- no blood. They were shot from the backseat.

He could not have hidden in the backseat, and there is no reason they would let him into their car. Unless I see it on tape, or find out some reason they would have let him into their backseat, I do not believe it is physically possible that Chris Dorner killed Quan and Lawrence.

MASSIVE anonymous LEAK!

"NOT TO BE PUBLISHED IN THE OFFICIAL REPORTS"

I haven't read it all. I bet we'll find inconsistencies.

leaksource.wordpress.com...



DORNER v. LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT

CHRISTOPHER DORNER, Plaintiff and Appellant, v. LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT et al., Defendants and Respondents.
No. B225674.

Just to note, I have tons of links to substantiate my factual claims -- I just haven't been constantly adding them, but planning to make one big post collecting them all. Anyone who wants to see a cite, feel free to ask and I'll supply it, meanwhile.

I've been trying to keep my brain out of "conspiracy mode". I've been doing a good job of it too. But, when I read this story and saw the different Manifestos, then saw that they were in Big Bear looking for him, the first thought I had was "So, this is how they're going to justify using drones on U.S. soil."

I sure hope I'm wrong.

Okay, I have, with the help of a genius friend (by the way, the writer Nick Mamatas is amazing, check out his stories and books, which have many themes relevant to our interests, particularly Under My Roof and his upcoming newest, a noir called Love is the Law, which explores the occult & other outsider subjects) finally worked out the only scenario in which Dorner could have killed Quan and Lawrence:

If he killed them somewhere else, and then put them in the car.

In order to do this, he would have had to accost them, and lured or threatened then somewhere he could do the deeds. Then he has no problem moving the bodies -- he could probably put one over each shoulder, and he's got the pickup truck already. He also has the keys to their car, since he has them.

So he leaves the bodies in the truck, takes the car to the truck, does the business and returns the car -- still has to swap out himself with a corpse in the driver seat, but a big guy like him could block practically anything he was doing if he was bent over the vehicle and rummaging inside. One quick lift and drop and Lawrence is in place.

Why leave him with his head slumped over the wheel, in that case, though? Could have been natural, just happened on its own?

More importantly, why do ANY of that when you've written a whole Manifesto about conducting a very public war?

There are a lot of unanswered questions about this case. You have the LAPD who it seems doubtful they wrote the manifesto themselves as it doesn't paint them in a good light at all!
Then he is supposed to be a college man yet his grammar is very poor in the manifesto.
He talks about injustice and morals and in a few paragraphs later he says he is saying he is targeting the innocent children and loved ones of those he thinks has wronged him.
He also says he wants to "CLEAR" his name but only a mental case would believe his actions will clear it!
The shooting of the two women in a truck( that looked like his) is probably due to some inexperienced police officers that is so scared (as he said he is going to kill all he can) I believe they simply panicked.
He seems like someone that is really narcissistic and feels that he has been such a nice guy all his life that the world owes him!
There has been hundreds of seemingly normal people that finally snapped when the super-human image they have of themselves are suddenly shattered when they are fired.
He seems to just be drowning in self-pity and is throwing a deadly 'tantrum'!.

Originally posted by jaws1975
Do you guys think that the LAPD added the extra crap on his manifesto to see if he would surface and make the correction, hence giving them a better chance of murdering him?

Yeah, it makes sense too, seems like he would be very angry they changed his message and would surely respond. It's worth a try anyways, then again the guy doesn't seem to be an idiot and in his manifesto he insists that any tricks like this wouldn't work on him.

LAPD announced today that they will re-open the case leading to Dorner's firing, in an effort to be transparent to the public.

New video surveillance footage from Irvine, CA monday morning shows him throwing some stuff in a dumpster- ammo belt, helmet, I guess some other stuff.

And Charlie Sheen has reached out to Dorner, urging him to turn himself in.

I just saw all this on ktla 5 news.

Oh, and wasn't his manifesto originally published on his facebook page? That's what I've always heard.

Originally posted by meggiddo2012
This mans death will be done by a drone and it will be televised or at least played over and over on the propaganda news outlets. This will be the justification of Drone use in America.

Honestly if they do it they will probably at that point use the Terrorist word a million times and then point out that they live among us...

The actual definition is "The use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims"

Tell me how declaring war on LAPD to clear your name is not using terrorist methods?
By the very definition of the word. That's their justification. All set nicely in place.

reply to post by CALGARIAN


All of Dorner's legal paperwork can be found here

I posted this link in another Dorner thread. Someone spent a LOT of time pulling all these court records. If we want to investigate this further at a later date and time, it might be prudent to pull these and save them.

I believe the info you posted is among the .pdf's on the site I mentioned above.

Just wanted to share a small anomaly in a news broadcast that I found to be strange. Check out this video on this local news site:

ktla.com...

Scrub to about 2:30 in the story and the graphic in the lower 3rd shows Dorners face with "wanted" below his face. In the video that follows, his mug appears on the left side of the screen, except the word "captured" is now showing in orange. Playing devil's advocate, I'll attribute this to a media intern that screwed up the graphic, but I thought its worth bringing this into the discussion...

reply to post by veritasmaximus
It's funny to me that the reporter passed on that the LAPD stated that they were going to re-open the case, and then to say that surely this will bring up some racial allegations.... totally side-stepped the whole abuse of citizens issue there.
Then it was interesting to hear at the clsoe of that video, the report state the one of the LAPD squad officers and he stated that they were chasing the "chupacabra" , that is the same nickname that Dorner said was given to Theresa Evans... either they are throowing that out there to confuse the general public or later they will all be saying we call everone that....

OTA: I just saw on KTLA.com that the LAPD stated that they would be giving the ladies that got shot a new truck.
I'm pretty sure they will be giving them a lot more than that but also started to wonder if, perhaps, they didn't want the ladies re-taking possesion of it and having them (or somebody who offers to inspect it) find illegal slugs floating around in it, you know the hollow tip or armor piercing kind. That shooting was just so over the top.

Originally posted by sepermeru
"270-pound, 6-foot Dorner..." could not possibly hide in the backseat of a car sufficiently so that two people could both finish getting in the car and closing the doors before they realized he was there.

He could have done it if he started shooting as soon as they opened the doors -- and why not, since that would be much bloodier and more public, which the LAPD tells us is what he wants.

He could have done it when they were outside the car, or hidden and shot them through the glass when they were in the car.

He could have waited in his truck outside the parking complex and hit them from there like he's supposedly done with the cops.

But none of that happened, because they were found inside the car only when someone noticed the driver's head slumped the next day. Which means no broken glass -- no open doors -- no blood. They were shot from the backseat.

He could not have hidden in the backseat, and there is no reason they would let him into their car. Unless I see it on tape, or find out some reason they would have let him into their backseat, I do not believe it is physically possible that Chris Dorner killed Quan and Lawrence.

edit on 9-2-2013 by sepermeru because: edit button is my best friend

So maybe Dorner is waiting in a corner of the parking lot. He waits until Quan or her husband is opening their door. He moves quickly and at gunpoint forces his way into the car, ordering them both to sit back down and shut their doors. He is now in the car with them, in the back seat.

Maybe he does this in the parking lot where they are later found. Maybe he does it somewhere else along their route and orders them (for some reason) to drive to their own apartment complex. Maybe he is interrogating them at gunpoint for some time. Or maybe he is wanting to meet someone at that apartment complex. Who would be there? Quan's father, Dorner's lawyer, could be there... The lawyer who just lost Dorner not one but two careers. Maybe Mr. Quan, Esquire doesn't show up, so Dorner whacks Quan's daughter and son-in-law.

Who knows. Bottom line is that LAPD is rife with corruption and has been for a long time. The scenario outlined in Dorner's supposed manifesto is entirely plausible to me. The biggest obstacle between us and the truth is the fact that the LAPD is intricately involved in the investigation which alleges their own corruption. If any of Dorner's accusations are true, then LAPD has done some serious housecleaning the past few days and any extant evidence has gone into the incinerator.

Originally posted by Magister
What if the daughter was killed to punish her father by someone (or some group) in LAPD? Her boyfriend is killed so there is no witness. Then Dorner's facebook page is hacked and the manifesto is posted to frame him. Dorner is killed after he checks into the hotel and his body is in a freezer somewhere waiting for the right time to be dumped. Or Dorner finds out that he is the suspect and runs.

edit on 9-2-2013 by Magister because: Changed "a suspect" to "the suspect"

I was thinking along those lines.
I do believe the whole scenario is a screenplay that's being enacted by the LAPD/GOV in order to reach some kind of 'effect'.
Problem / Reaction / Solution.

It could also be a feud between the LAPD and the Alphabetistas, of which Dorner could be an active agent...(voluntarily or not!)


Very good first post, Magister!

He just vanished so he had planning or help so now you probably got other military friends of his involved. Rambo's pissed and out for blood.

Im here on the other side of the world (australia ) and I came to ATS to get info on this case because there is NO news about it here which is VERY weird. I mean, we saw OJ fleeing in his truck live on news here... why arent we getting anything about Dorner ?

The godfather of my eldest daughter lives in Torrance and my second child was born in Lake Arrowhead (big bear area) so this case started to catch my interest, I read the manifesto (it appears most ppl commenting on FB have NOT read it.. or just read the bits referencing Anonymous) and it made no sense at all why this guy is pushing gun control so immediately i thought "PLANT" .. decided to see what ATS thinks.

DEFINITE possibility this is for the drones. If I had to bet my money right now thats where Id be putting it

Originally posted by nottelling

I've given my opinion in the other thread that Dorner's military service was 90% desk driving and powerpointing - nowhere near the badass navy commando he is trying to portray himself as. Until we hear something from someone who served under him or trained with him in the navy, all the talk about SERE and dems and unconventional warfare is pure speculation.

Here's a bit of a snippet about his police service by someone who served with him on the LAPD. I'm not prepared to link the source, so take my word for it or not.

So if accurate, that snippet gives us an idea of the man.

1. Shot himself? Jee-zus. However his Manifesto I believe talks about being in trouble for a "negligent discharge" while an LAPD cop. But to shoot himself? Take that as rumor material until proven, but - just wow.

2. Struggled with PT requirements - for police service? Yep, he was a donut-munching desk driver in the Navy - I can guarantee it. He's solid and muscular but has a fair amount of visible body fat in his photo. Any sort of prolonged cardio would be a problem for him. Lifting heavy things? Not so much.

3. He apparently wasn't very highly regarded by his colleagues - but that's also one former colleague's opinion and not really relevant to the case.

4. He lost his appeal to the LAPD over his dismissal and the loss of the appeal meant the loss of his military Top Secret clearance, making him redundant there too. You can clearly see from that alone why he'd be angry. Two careers and a future hinged on that LAPD appeal. Bummer for him. Not condoning ANYTHING he's done, but it's clear his life was ripped apart - very recently - and he's snapped. It will kill him and if he's in the right as per his manifesto then it's quite sad. However, what's sadder is that his LAPD and Navy psych evals didn't identify this side of his personality and nip it all in the bud.

No massive earth-shattering insights in this post, just a bit of extra texture to add to our individual opinions of the man, his grievances and his crimes.

Oh, almost forgot... he owns a whole bunch of NFA toys (from Nevada). SBRs, suppressors and there's chatter about demolitions materiel and equipment. This could get far more ugly than it is now.

There is a lot of holes in your supposed 'Texturing' of the situation to add to this overall dialog. In fact most of it does the opposite and is purely misinformation. Let me start off at your speculation that he is a deskpointer/powerpointer. Although i am sure he did do alot of that, There is much more he did as well. He said he attended NMITC (Navy Marine Core Intelligence Training Center) ..You can Google them for info but basically that command is the center for all USMC/USN intelligence training.. Since he was an officer, he would have went through NIOBC (Naval Intelliegence Officers Basic Course). Since he was in Cammies, he was with either a NSW or Expeditionary unit. This would mean he also would have went to the NSWIC(Naval Special Warfare Intelligence Course) usmilitary.about.com... . It is very possible (and highly likely) that the unit he went to would have sent him to many follow on schools. (Sere, Weapons Schols, Tactics, CounterIntel/Humint). I was an Enlisted navy Intelligence Specialist for 6 years and attended schools there, including NSWIC.as well as many other schools including Blackwater.
Im not going to go into what would be learned in the latter courses, but when he describes his use of various intelligence methods (image, open source, etc etc) he is absolutely right about how much of an edge he has, and the knowledge and training that he possess is quite scary. Anyone with an in depth understanding of LAPD tactics such as himself would be lethal. But not anywhere near someone who also has an in depth understanding and working knowledge of various types and levels of warfare/ various insurgencies, ttp's , HVT targeting expert.. Is a dangerous man that cannot be underestimated.
The claims also of him being a donut and out of shape are laughable. Nevermind the fact that he was (Or so i hear) a college football player, even the school that he went through at nmitc would have washed him out. Physically it is extremely rigorous. And so is the Daily PT at units who require these skillsets.
As far as him having "SEAL' and underwater demolitions skills, i would say that is highly false, I would also suspect that that quote never came from him but came from someone who just had no clue what he actually meant. Though it is highly possible that he DOES have comparable skills when it comes to tactics.
To sum all of that up, I would also say this man has to be highly competent, since judging by the way he wrote everything he is well aware of the skills he has and how to impliment them. I would imagine by now that the FBI has gotten in touch with NMITC and any of his reserve commands and is well aware the extent of his skillset.

Originally posted by veritasmaximus
Just wanted to share a small anomaly in a news broadcast that I found to be strange. Check out this video on this local news site:

ktla.com...

Scrub to about 2:30 in the story and the graphic in the lower 3rd shows Dorners face with "wanted" below his face. In the video that follows, his mug appears on the left side of the screen, except the word "captured" is now showing in orange. Playing devil's advocate, I'll attribute this to a media intern that screwed up the graphic, but I thought its worth bringing this into the discussion...

They must have changed it, it says wanted now....
The video of him dumping his ammo and ammo belt into the dumpster however shows to me a level of guilt....
In a way I feel sorry for him, he may suffer from PTSD and "may" have just snapped.....I also feel sorry for the dead and the women whose truck was shot at! They are gonna cash in!!! Cha Ching!!

This is a great thread by the way!