Senator Byrd talking sense

www.iraqwar.ru...

"What I heard the President say also disturbed me. It may make for grand theater to describe Saddam Hussein as an ally of al Qaeda or to characterize the fall of Baghdad as a victory in the war on terror, but stirring rhetoric does not necessarily reflect sobering reality. Not one of the 19 September 11th hijackers was an Iraqi. In fact, there is not a shred of evidence to link the September 11 attack on the United States to Iraq. There is no doubt in my mind that Saddam Hussein was an evil despot who brought great suffering to the Iraqi people, and there is no doubt in my mind that he encouraged and rewarded acts of terrorism against Israel. But his crimes are not those of Osama bin Laden, and bringing Saddam Hussein to justice will not bring justice to the victims of 9-11. The United States has made great progress in its efforts to disrupt and destroy the al Qaeda terror network. We can take solace and satisfaction in that fact. We should not risk tarnishing those very real accomplishments by trumpeting victory in Iraq as a victory over Osama bin Laden.
"

Looks like some Americans understand the situation. I was impressed by everything this man had to say. Now if only the media and the american people would also wake up perhaps the US could re-establish some kind of legitimacy.

Never heard anyone including the president make these claims to start with...but then again. Sn Byrd lives in his own little world in his "modest cottage" as he called it in his last speech trying to sway the public into giving back tax cuts so he can have his lush slush fund.

I was curious as to what you think of his comments including the statements;

"There is no doubt in my mind that Saddam Hussein was an evil despot who brought great suffering to the Iraqi people, and there is no doubt in my mind that he encouraged and rewarded acts of terrorism against Israel."

and

"The United States has made great progress in its efforts to disrupt and destroy the al Qaeda terror network. We can take solace and satisfaction in that fact."

Those remarks I do agree with Byrd on but since his public show of racism, not many take him seriously anymore including his own party members. He was a member of the Klue Klux Klan and has made derogatory comments against African Americans. If not for that, he would have been held in high esteem by his party but he now lacks very much credibility.

directly supported Al Queda. Many of us know that he supported terrorism in general (a view even pointed out by Byrd in that speech), and for us, that was a good enough reason for him to go. I myself, am under no delusion that ousting Saddam affected Al Queda directly, but I do believe that terrorism in general just lost a wealthy benefactor...and I'm all for that.

astrocreep - Are you trying to say that because I didn't want this war, Saddam Hussein is my hero? Again? I swear, I'm getting f*king bored of this cr*p from you. I have stated clearly in the past that Saddam is a nasty piece of work. But we didn't go to war to free the Iraqi people, that justification came along later when it looked like Iraq didn't have the WMD / terrorist links that the US were looking for.

Gazrok - You may not have thought that there was a link between Al-Quada and Saddam, but I think a lot of other people in the US did. And just from watching Powell in the security council, he never once quashed that idea.

The actual groups supported by Iraq were the families of Palestinian terrorists. At least, that's all we have evidence of. A lot of Arabs would say that the Israeli's are currently practising state terrorism against the Palestinians, and the US pays all of Israel's bills. You've got to be careful when you start pointing fingers.

Al-Quada links would be significant, support for the Palestinians in their campaign against Israel isn't particularly surprising. The US have engaged in similar tactics many times in the past. (right wing guerillas versus socialist governments, etc.) But we're not really allowed to talk about that because the CIA did it, so the US didn't really have anything to do with it...

Originally posted by dom
astrocreep - Are you trying to say that because I didn't want this war, Saddam Hussein is my hero? Again? I swear, I'm getting f*king bored of this cr*p from you. I have stated clearly in the past that Saddam is a nasty piece of work. But we didn't go to war to free the Iraqi people, that justification came along later when it looked like Iraq didn't have the WMD / terrorist links that the US were looking for.

I think you might have jumped the gun on me there Dom. I don't think asking your opinion on a quote you first posted is accusing you of anything. I am merely trying to better understand your view on these points as I realize that not everyone has the same structured logic but since this seemed to really bring out the anger in you, maybe its best we just let this go. I thought that you might find a bit of information on Sen Byrd interesting as I grew up a in a neighboring state of his and have been subject to many of his speeches for years and am also in the same political party as he.

Again, I thought I would just get your view on the quotes and ask without comment other than I think I said I supported them along with Senator Byrd. I do not think anyone in the administration has ever made the accusation that Saddam was directly responsible for 9-11 nor did I make any suppositions about your view on him.

Maybe you would prefer if the site administrators allow you to decide whom has the privilidge to post to the forums and set the criteria. I may have my opinions but still attempt to maintain a civil tone. I think maybe there is issue of maturity here which might lend itself to the aggression I tend to unwillingly provolk from you. Perhaps these issues are more personal for you than I as you seem so determined that yours be the only opinion expressed ..to the point of defending yourself against accusations that no one has made.

Ok, apologies for going off the hook. I see you probably weren't trying to imply that I somehow love Saddam Hussein.

My opinion on the two quotes are as follows...

"There is no doubt in my mind that Saddam Hussein was an evil despot who brought great suffering to the Iraqi people, and there is no doubt in my mind that he encouraged and rewarded acts of terrorism against Israel."

Spot on. Note that he says that Iraq rewarded acts of terrorism (ie gave money to the relatives of suicide bombers), NOT "Iraq sponsored acts of terrorism against Israel"

"The United States has made great progress in its efforts to disrupt and destroy the al Qaeda terror network. We can take solace and satisfaction in that fact."

True.

No astro, I don't mind you posting, it just seemed that the first quote is one which I've also said in the past. You know that I don't like Saddam, and yet in the past you've made links between being anti-war and being pro-Saddam. There is no link between the two.

[EDIT] Also interested in what you had to say about Bryd. From what he'd said I got the impression that he was probably fairly left of centre, while also being fairly political. (After all, you can't point out someone else being political while you're a poltician without making a political point yourself ) What he said makes sense though. Any links to his KKK links? Sounds bizarre. [/EDIT]

[Edited on 8-5-2003 by dom]

Dom, no apologies needed. Looks like we are in total agreement on the quotes.

As for links to Sen Byrd, as a member of his party, you won't mind if I don't add anymore fuel to the fire as his comments were made a few years back and we'd rather just forget them and hope everyone else does too.

have a good one.

Just look at where Mr. Abbas was....

Yeah, Mr Abbas, retired for 17 years, now a leader of the PLO who has renounced violence on multiple occasions, and who the US promised not to arrest in an amnesty in 1993.

Not a great example that one...

[EDIT] Incidentally, we knew the guy was there before the war, but I never saw the US administration say that this was evidence of terrorist links. They only wheeled him out when they got desperate to show results... [/EDIT]

[Edited on 8-5-2003 by dom]

believe that one of the world's former "Most Wanted" terrorists has "reformed'. I don't forgive and forget so easily. Michael Jackson can say publicly that he doesn't molest children, but I don't believe that one either....

Originally posted by Gazrok
believe that one of the world's former "Most Wanted" terrorists has "reformed'. I don't forgive and forget so easily. Michael Jackson can say publicly that he doesn't molest children, but I don't believe that one either....

LMAO!

Yet the war only was victorious in symbolic ways. We haven't been able to prove that Saddam is dead or inactive in Iraq or not. The only thing we know is that we don't know what is going on with him. No one really knows what Saddam is doing right now, if he is even doing anything at all; for he could be dead, but who knows for sure???

So the victory against Saddam is clear. That victory being the fact that we took his dictatorship from his hands. We didn't stop him from getting it back though. So because of that, this war is only victorious in symbolic ways. For it is well know that Saddam is feared and he could be running an underground operation. For most of his activites were underground anyway. He is a former revolutionary 'hero' and he knows the tricks of the trade. So we can't dispute that this war is not an absolute victory unless Saddam is proven dead or no longer a threat. That is the symbolic way we beat Saddam. That is by showing him we can take his power away.

The symbolic defeat to Bin Laden is the fact that we can take his glory away. For it has been a long awaited destiny of Bin Laden's to be able to take the fundamentalist radicals of Islam and spread their indoctrination into the systems of Iraqi culture. For it is well known that Iraq is a strongly secular state. This is a crime in the eyes of the Wahhabi radicals. So we have been able to frustrate two major enemies of ours, but we haven't gotten rid of their wrath. The wrath they harbor is the fate we hold. We must not fan the flames, or else we are going to get burned. The next victories over Bin Laden will have to be swift and decisive to be effective to the world view and public opinion. They only need strike once, we must strike endlessly until everything is destroyed. The terrorists just once, us always. Is this not a threat????

Yeah it is, but it is the threat of ignorant politics. Byrd is one Senator in the system who understands this threat from ignorance. For no man who breeds ignorance is willing to salvage for his own. Byrd is not ignorant, and knows that he must look after himself and the saftey of others that he represents. He does that not only publicly, and regionally, but nationally, and internationally.

I praise Bryd for not allowing opposing opinions to sway his polices. He has a strong ideal that he believes in and he holds on to like it were his sons going to war. He will not back down to people he should face and he won't turn his back on those he should be facing. He is a strong arm politican. He has strength in his looks and his character. He is an all around good American. He has integrity, honesty, faith, guts, and wisdom. And he serves and serves and serves and serves and serves. He has done more than most politicans dream of. And he is ready to do more. He will not back down to anyone, because he has taken an oath to the people and to God. He is fighting for justice and always will be. He has my praise and my love.



God Bless Robert Byrd

let me sum this up for y'all:

senator byrd is just another example of how the demoncats are still wallowing in a pool of spite and jealousy that hasn't evaporated since the 2000 elections. this display of jealousy is sickening. bush made a wise decision to build off the emotional bond he's made with the american people; or at least 70% of them. landing on that carrier via jet was a BRILLIANT POLITICAL MOVE, period! the war on terror is in full effect and is working. also, iraq is no longer being dictated by saddam hussein. i'm not saying bush is pertect, but he is doing a lot of things right. if he can get a grip on the economy, he'll really be the man.

sadly, if he does boost the economy, liberals would still find something to bitch about.