Is america a nation of terrified people ????

reply to post by bellagirl


Yes, I understand that. It is what it is. If someone chooses to fret and worry about everything the MSM tells them, then I suppose it doesn't matter where your aunt lived.
I didn't realize that Australia was so tranquil with barely any crime. I was under the impression that they were becoming a huge police state just like America is.

I don't know, I guess you could say people live in fear, under it all this is still the wild west.

I live in a small farm/hunting town so owning guns is a way of life. those that live in cities I believe own guns out of caution rather than fear, it can be a kill or be killed environment at times, so ive heard.

I don't own any firearms but I will defend the right for others to own them.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by Afterthought
reply to post by bellagirl

 

Yes, I understand that. It is what it is. If someone chooses to fret and worry about everything the MSM tells them, then I suppose it doesn't matter where your aunt lived.
I didn't realize that Australia was so tranquil with barely any crime. I was under the impression that they were becoming a huge police state just like America is.

i was not saying that we dont have any crime. yes we have crime. we have had many shootings in sydney over the last couple of years...BUT...if you are not involved in bikies, middle eastern crime etc then you really dont have anything to fear. they are only shooting each other

but where we are very very different is that we dont have our government raising and lowering the threat of terror all the time, we dont have body scanners at airports, we dont have home invasions like you guys do etc. and thats the guts of the first post. it was a question is the fear now become a generational thing and getting worse creating the situation where those out of fear resort to gun ownership etc.

reply to post by bellagirl


Forgive me, but what are bikies?
If you're meaning people who ride motorcycles, I worked in a few biker bars and I've never seen one pull out a gun on someone. Although I did have a biker give me a rather large knife as a tip.
I never went to work fearing that I was going to get shot. People need to realize that you can't control everything, so why scare yourself over what might happen? I heard somewhere that most of the stuff we worry about never happen anyways. It truly is a waste of energy worrying about stuff that may or may not happen.

Where i live owning a gun or several is basically carrying on tradition. Hunting and fishing are huge passtimes here. They fill your freezer and you have fun as well. People here do not buy guns out of fear. They have always had guns and no real fear because of the fact.

reply to post by bellagirl

we dont have our government raising and lowering the threat of terror all the time

Really? Why are they purchasing a bunch of drones then?
www.theherald.com.au...

Originally posted by Afterthought
reply to post by bellagirl

 

Forgive me, but what are bikies?
If you're meaning people who ride motorcycles, I worked in a few biker bars and I've never seen one pull out a gun on someone. Although I did have a biker give me a rather large knife as a tip.

I never went to work fearing that I was going to get shot. People need to realize that you can't control everything, so why scare yourself over what might happen? I heard somewhere that most of the stuff we worry about never happen anyways. It truly is a waste of energy worrying about stuff that may or may not happen.

bikies are organized gangs just like the hells angels, nomads, bandidos etc. for years they were involved in the tattoo industry, drugs, security etc. you never really had anything to fear from them unless your were involved in crime. About 10 years ago there was a major shift and middle easterners became involved and joined the different bikie gangs on mass. in the past you could never leave one group and join another. it was unheard of. now they are swapping all the time and fighting for territory. family used to be off limits but since the middle easterns became involved families are fair game with many many drive by shootings of each others houses.

reply to post by bellagirl


From what you've described, it sounds to me as though the Aussie police and government have sent in agent provacateurs to shake things up. Maybe this isn't true, but I really don't put anything past the governments who are pushing for a nanny state. Although some people are more comfortable living with the illusion that the government will keep them safe.

Originally posted by bellagirl
thankyou so much twosides for actually getting what i said. i was worried that the first reply would be an attack.

i really am just trying to understand what is happening. i have had many fights on here over gun debates etc and instead of just attacking...being a smart ass..or ignoring other opinions..i am just trying to really understand.

edit on 31-1-2013 by bellagirl because: (no reason given)

I do not think your trying to understand, I have explained it, and a couple other people have explained this, and your still convinced Americans live in fear.

Obviously this has been taught to you well, because your not changing your view, or appearing like your learning....

Or this is just a troll thread, to go on and on about a question your asking, yet really its an illusional statement or your opinion...

Hopefully it will lose traction and I can stop seeing a sloppy written sentence on the top of the forum..

Nothing personal..

Nothing to see here people move along

The people might not be terrified, but the Government is.

Beware the Russians, Home-Grown Terrorists, Communists, Homosexuals, Educated Women and if a Gunman is on the Loose - Stab him with Sissors.

The main reason that we believe in the 2nd amendment is to protect ourselves from our GOVERNMENT

Talk about living in fear- you prove the OP's point.

I am a lot more worried about tyrannical business people than any government.

reply to post by bellagirl

so here is my point.....is the whole gun debacle and mass shootings just a reaction from a population who the majority have lived with fear for years and years ????

No, its just a polarizing topic people can take sides on to gain more support for other things the party offers.
I mean down over there they banned guns shortly after the Port Arthur massacre and that guy was inspired by a school shooting in Scotland and shortly after that there were more gun laws passed to.
Gun debate and shootings is not just an American thing, just because the entire world stays up to date on the good old USA does not mean that these are just American issues. The only difference is that in the US firearm ownership is a right.

does your government keep you in this constant state of fear with the whole lowering and raising of terror alerts ????

Honestly I have never met anyone that takes those threats seriously. The news would say what they were when they were new and even then it was a joke.

are the media to blame ????.

Why? They're reporting on the subject has inspired some. But you can't really blame the media.

for the last few months it has seemed that here on ATS and other places it has been a fight between the US and the rest of the world.

Not really, from what I have seen its mostly just the typical Euro-barge stuff.

i will be honest...we just dont get the whole gun/violence thing. here in australia i can go to the local pub and walk home at 2am laughing and chatting all the way home with friends without the fear of someone shooting me because they think im about to do a home invasion..steal their car...rob their house etc.

Im sure there are neighborhoods that people would not do that in. I would walk down my street anytime of day, a mile away is not the same story. Statistics are cool though
www.ncpa.org...

We are cautious....you wouldnt walk around on your own in the early hours of the morning on your own without being aware of where you are and who is around you. were not stupid. yes we have security doors on our front doors to stop breakins if your not home or that you can lock and leave the solid door open while letting the breeze come through. but we dont live with that constant fear of getting a home invasion..robbed..raped..assaulted..we dont keep guns so we can rise up against our government.

so in conclusion.....are americans living in a constant state of fear that leads them to keep and carry guns ???

No
Most people don't carry guns around, you can get a permit to carry but its rare.
Over here only people living in ghettos have those security doors.

What's to be terrified of, if the economy busts, it won't be as if it has never happened before. We got through it in the thirties, and it happened a couple other times here in the US also in the time we have been a nation. It happens to most countries. It's not the end of the world.

Who is afraid of guns, I think they should lock up the nuts.

Originally posted by CB328

The main reason that we believe in the 2nd amendment is to protect ourselves from our GOVERNMENT

Talk about living in fear- you prove the OP's point.

I am a lot more worried about tyrannical business people than any government.

A) You're on ATS, so i would assume you knew there is no difference between Government and Business.

B) Youre not afraid of our Government...but you're afraid the Government won't protect you from 'business people?'

C) look at history. Who has a record of killing millions upon millions upon millions of people: Governments or business people?

It is very ignorant and short sighted to believe that the American government will never fire upon or arrest ordinary citizens. And as i already said, this may not happen tomorrow, next month, next year or even next decade, but the fact is still that we must preserve the chance to defend liberty.

It is very ignorant and short sighted to believe that the American government will never fire upon or arrest ordinary citizens

You are much more likely to have someone in your family accidentally killed by your guns than any chance of the government shooting you.

Originally posted by bellagirl


...above 50 lived through... the cold war... nuclear attack and the... cuban missile crisis, the korean and the vietnam wars etc.
...between ages of say...30 - 50. ...middle east with the first iraq war in the early 90's and then a fear of saddam for a whole decade

till the 9-11 attacks and the afghan/iraq war. ...generation of teens to 30's. terror alert being raised and lowered...airport screening...
add to that the last 20 years with violent video games/movies and news footage becoming much more graphic...
...fight or flight. chemicals are released into your body which determine if you stay and fight or you run for safety.

so here is my point.....is the whole gun debacle and mass shootings just a reaction... fear for years and years ???? does your government keep you in this constant state of fear with the whole lowering and raising of terror alerts ???? are the media to blame ????. has all of the above led to a feeling of "every man for himself" thus raising the crime levels ????

so in conclusion.....are americans living in a constant state of fear that leads them to keep and carry guns ???

You quite accurately lay out the backdrop but forget (or do not know) the motivation. Throughout American history we have two forces at work, prepare for the worst and hope for the best. Each war prepared/conditioned us for more war. While the troops evolved into one of the best fighting forces this world has ever seen, someone at home always had something to say. Whether hippies, artists, college students or activists their was always someone reminding us "this is wrong." Not afraid to fight or not afraid to not fight. Live free or die I think sums it up.

We have been desensitized to blood and gore, force fed real violence and tragedy from the media and had our "inalienable rights" poked and probed with a needle. In my personal opinion, I'd bet most urban and rural citizens have the fight response while suburbans are probably scared #less.

To answer your questions directly: yes, probably, absolutely, a.k.a. individualistic society.

Fear is not why we bare arms. I would need a whole thread to explain why, but basically our forefathers knew alot more than we give then credit for. They knew we would eventually be subjugated by our own government because, as I've heard it said here, history is forced to repeat itself. They wanted us prepared to fight any threat to human rights including our own government.

We are not all one type. We are redneckz, and businessmen, cowboys and yankees. Most of us teach gun safety and practice discretion. We know which areas are dangerous. Most of America is quite nice and relatively safe at the moment. We are pretty much like all of you just with guns.

reply to post by bmmark

We have been desensitized to blood and gore, force fed real violence and tragedy from the media and had our "inalienable rights" poked and probed with a needle. In my personal opinion, I'd bet most urban and rural citizens have the fight response while suburbans are probably scared #less.

Not true at all, in an "urban" area when gunshots are heard people get down or go inside.
In the suburbs when gun shots are heard people go outside and say "was that a gun shot?"

When I left my country, I was a young mother, and I learned a new concept about childrearing.
For me, I had been conditioned with the belief that from a childs birth, the role of the mother was to make this human independant.
But I learned other peoples had this concept of "securization" - that it was essential (and was highly the mothers role) that the child start early years developing a sense of security.

A sense that they have a safety net, an unconditional force of love and protection and support, from the world around them. It might only be the mother who provides that at first- but being the first representation of "other", not self, or the exterior world, her providing that can create a lifetime background sense of security and trust in the world and others.....before the paternal type education begins to teach them independance and individualization later.

In my own case, I have come to the conclusion that because my mother was a typical american who believed only in paternalization, independance, and individualism, that is why my social skills, emotional intelligence, and basic ability to open and trust others is underdeveloped.

I'd like to have the trust in the world I see my husband have. But I probably never will. I learned the world is a harsh place, freedom is inherent- the only limits in the world is death which could be around any corner for me and no one is going to help me foresee it or save myself. I need to be always on alert. Because I am totally free.

Some people in the US want to have guns because they want them. Its our right, its our individual business, not our neighborrs, not our co-workers, not our government's and most certainly not anyone from another country.

Personally, I don't like guns. I fully support responsible people having them, they are just not my thing. I do however like my freedom and the reason the gun issue is so inflamed is that in the minds of many, including myself, guns represent our freedoms as Americans and it would appear at numerous levels that the government is attacking them individually.

The US was founded on individual freedom and states rights. There is no way that both have not been significantly eroded over the past several decades with the trend dramatically accelerating. In fact, the one bright spot in the political arena currently is how governors are stepping up and taking a stand for their own state constitutions.

As I said above, I don't like guns. I assume that there are folks who don't like the manner in which I exercise some of my rights. I would hope we would both fight for each other's.

I believe this intense debate about guns is about a whole lot more than guns. It certanly is for me. Its about our progressively eroding freedom.

reply to post by CaticusMaximus


I would challenge you to provide sources for your ASSUMPTION that the founding fathers intended the 2nd Amendment as anything other than to assure a domestic/citizen militia. Not for vigilante justice but for the common defense against foreign threats. You can carry that on to say domestic threats as well, the government perhaps, but you cannot say that was the original intent without any documentation.