injustice in law will not be over come by lawlessness

Originally posted by XPLodER
reply to post by beezzer

 

Instead of replacing bad laws with good laws, why not just get rid of the bad laws?

All suspected crimes already fall under existing laws. We just don't have anyone with the stones to prosecute.

SnF

with a movement of people pushing for just laws, and a following of what good laws look like,
the bad ones will become self evident

xploder

Agreed. But we still need people to enforce and prosecute the law. Just look at Eric Holder. Our top law enforcement official. He's the example!

I just wan to add, we can have all the best laws on the books, giving no quarter to bankers et al.

But if we don't have the people to prosecute and enforce, the we're still in the same mess.

reply to post by XPLodER


Explanation: If Aaron wasn't soft, then why didn't he man up and take the justice that was about to be served to him?

Personal Disclosure: Under other circumstances I would wholeheartedly agree with you and I would have loved to have meet Aaron and shared a moment of peace with him!

BUT TIME IS UP! GAME OVER MAN! AINT NOBODY GOT TIME FOR THIS BS FOR 1 SECOND LONGER!

Stop whinging and start swinging your fists or and GTFO! :bash:

reply to post by beezzer

Agreed. But we still need people to enforce and prosecute the law. Just look at Eric Holder. Our top law enforcement official. He's the example!

the head of the criminal justice department of the DOJ stood down yesterday after the airing of a documentary.

public pressure is the only thing these guys understand.

you do realise he was council for the largest wall street banks before he become head of justice?

xploder

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I see your points. It is a shame that we do not have higher voter turnout each election year, but it isn't a law that everyone has to vote. These people are exercising their freedoms by not voting just as much as the people going to vote are also exercising their freedoms. Maybe if we put forth better candidates then the puppets that are put forth now, more people would turn up to vote. I can't say, I can't speak for all those people and why they didn't vote.

However what I can speak to is that regardless of how many people show up to vote, it doesn't give the people elected to office free reign to run wild. It appears to be almost a vicious cycle. Few people show up to vote for the next guy because most of the people in America are discouraged with their choices. So as an effect some dud gets elected to office and does a bunch of unpopular things. This further disheartens the public and shows the politicians that they can get away with this behavior. The politicians take more and more and the voters grow more and more apathetic. At some point you have to break the cycle, but how? The system is locked into an infinite loop of self-destruction. Fighting the flow of the cycle is futile. The people at the top and with the most power to implement change obviously don't want anything to change. Eventually, you are going to have to seek outside methods to right this capsizing boat.

Originally posted by XPLodER
reply to post by beezzer

 

Agreed. But we still need people to enforce and prosecute the law. Just look at Eric Holder. Our top law enforcement official. He's the example!

the head of the criminal justice department of the DOJ stood down yesterday after the airing of a documentary.

public pressure is the only thing these guys understand.

you do realise he was council for the largest wall street banks before he become head of justice?

xploder

I was not aware of that!

I would say that public pressure, not political pressure, is the more effective. But then again, I trust a politician about as far as I can toss a jeep!

Originally posted by OmegaLogos
reply to post by XPLodER

 

Explanation: If Aaron wasn't soft, then why didn't he man up and take the justice that was about to be served to him?

the only way to win that game is not to play

Personal Disclosure: Under other circumstances I would wholeheartedly agree with you and I would have loved to have meet Aaron and shared a moment of peace with him!

i never meet aaron but i am an information activist, may he rest in peace and light

BUT TIME IS UP! GAME OVER MAN! AINT NOBODY GOT TIME FOR THIS BS FOR 1 SECOND LONGER!

Stop whinging and start swinging your fists or

and GTFO! :bash:

i do things in a very different way than you,
ill continue doing things may way,
and in the spirit of aaron and other peaceful non violent activists world wide

we will not forget HIM

xploder

reply to post by Krazysh0t

(I just know it'll come as a system shock here..but I respectfully disagree..lol)

These people are exercising their freedoms by not voting just as much as the people going to vote are also exercising their freedoms.

There is no law to vote. I'd never have it any other way. A vote forced is a worthless one and we have enough totally uninformed votes as it is without adding that factor to the precious few who do bother to show up at all. The freedom exercised here is the freedom to let the system run itself though. It will too, as we've watched. Gleefully. It's not pretty when a Republic 'runs itself', is it?

Maybe if we put forth better candidates then the puppets that are put forth now, more people would turn up to vote.

That's the whole key right there. Those who ONLY vote in the national ballot have already forfeited 90% of the race and their own ability to change the outcome. It's down to the lesser of the evils...and it's getting to be the norm.

At some point you have to break the cycle, but how? The system is locked into an infinite loop of self-destruction.

We do have to break it. Absolutely. There is nothing locked about it though. That's the impression very deliberately given and then repeated until it's believed among the public at large and it feeds even more disillusionment and apathy, making for an even BETTER situation to those in power and those who put them there.

Fighting the flow of the cycle is futile. The people at the top and with the most power to implement change obviously don't want anything to change.

Convincing you of that has been the greatest victory the political class of this nation have ever pulled off and they've had near total success with it. You CANNOT fight by force. The system has insured that's suicidal to the extreme without numbers the apathy will never support. You "can't" change it from within because we've ALL been conditioned to believe it's all just out of the reach of any normal person.....and by election time, it sure is. So the image is reinforced every time it comes up. The illusion.

Now in all honesty, I'm not some wizard of the ways of Washington. FAR FAR from it...though I WILL understand every stinking level of this mess by the time I graduate University with a Masters in it. I had no IDEA how the system actually worked vs. how media and politicians led us to believe it worked before Ron Paul's campaign people gave a training seminar on Caucus and how it *REALLY* works. Then I spent a good deal of my own time learning beyond that before feeling SO strongly I changed my major from Graphics to Political Science.


However, BOTH parties would like to leave people thinking the Primary and Caucus systems are stuffy "party business" or even closed to the general public participating. NOTHING could be further from the truth and in fact, THAT stage is where better than half the election is won or lost. Right there...and before the official candidate selections are even made on a national level. So in general terms? We've lost this fight without even realizing what the MOST CRITICAL battle even was!

Did you get the Caucus system explained in High School civics? I sure didn't I saw the word on flow charts and read the merest mention of the BASICS of how it works in relation to everything else...but again, always with the impression it was deep party business and if smokey back rooms existed, that was where they could be found.

The fact of the matter is.....if citizens stood in even a fraction of their LOW voting numbers at the stage where participation REALLY matters, we CAN take this thing back. It won't happen in a single election. Too many seats cross elections in flipping them all. It would take 6 years of concerted and sincere effort.....but anyone who says it can't be done should look into the part of the system I refer to here. What one finds may come as a shock.

What I learned from Dr. Pauls people and then confirmed by experience of the caucus itself and my own research had and still DOES have me pissed enough to spend years more in school in MUCH more difficult courses than graphics ever would have been to make damn sure I do all in MY power to see change come...without killing people as some (perhaps not you) seem to JUMP at as a first choice.

reply to post by OmegaLogos

"There is no justice in following unjust laws. It's time to come into the light and, in the grand tradition of civil disobedience, declare our opposition to this private theft of public culture."

- Aaron Swartz

there is no need for violence when you stand in the light,
be the change you want to see

copy right and patents are the opposite of what they pro-port to be,
in most cases they reduce culture to a cost benefit calculation that cares little for culture and more for power.

information is like a lit candle,
it can light millions of candles without losing brightness,

if you charge for that service everyone lives in darkness.

xploder

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


democracy is a thing that requires participation
culture is a thing that requires an audience
freedom takes a culture of democracy
and requires participation by the audience

xploder

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


You know I've seen you posting around here a lot and I've come to respect all of your posts as well thought out and rationale. We see eye to eye on many issues but differ on a few. But I am ok with that as we are both human and rarely do two humans see eye to eye one everything. Having said this, you have my full support in trying to change something. I too would prefer a bloodless transition as opposed to a violent one. If you were to run for office, I'd most definitely vote for you (provided you don't become corrupted by the very thing you are trying to stand up against).

However I am a veteran of the armed forces. I will always keep the violent course of action close at hand, because sometimes the peaceful approach just isn't enough to get the job done. But even during the course of war, there should always be the peaceful voice to bring us back from the brink.

reply to post by Krazysh0t

Thanks for your words on that and the feeling is mutual for respect of your positions and approach to this.

Disagreement need not relate to respect and it certainly takes nothing from it here. So, with respect, I'd offer this as what is perhaps the best I've heard for describing my general sentiments. While it doesn't cover all of them and not precisely...particularly the lines as he retakes his seat, it covers mine closely enough to offer it here.

For those not interested in the preamble and who haven't seen this before, the relevant part begins a 1:20 and runs to the end. For those who have seen it....listen to it again. It's a damn fine speech, even if those who crafted it for this could never have considered it may some day come to fit outside this context.

The feelings and sentiments of a Patriot

Should all peaceful efforts fail and should, God help us, this nation fall into serious unrest and civil strife for the second time in it's history, trouble won't find me hiding or turning the other way to escape it. In the end, some things are worth fighting and, yes, dying for. In the ultimate question, what we are discussing in this context is at the top of a very short list. I simply won't do a thing to help see that come or to support it's start. Nothing in even a passing way.

I'll leave it with this thought though and in a general way. There is more than one on here and elsewhere whom I disagree with and have had lively debates with that I'd also be proud to stand with, should that day ever come where it's time to stand and seek change in that final way.

reply to post by XPLodER


ok your post is very long and im not going to read it maybe later i kinda got a headache but judging on your title i agree use it ppl while it lasts please not just on the internet let it manifest into your everyday life

Do not be fooled by a belief that progressives, leftists hate guns.
What they hate is guns in the hands of those who are not marching in lock step of their ideology.
They hate guns in the hands of those who think for themselves and do not obey without question.

reply to post by XPLodER

Only when Anonymous is willing to fire the first shot.

And you know what? They never will. Their only power is anonymity (herp). They make soft blows against companies with no real damage done and then leave twelve year old kids to take the blame.

reply to post by madenusa


Sorry sir.

I'm a progressive and I love my right to bear arms. I think for myself, and I see many conservatives who don't actually have critical thought.

Obviously i want the good with everything, but Id rather see the world with nothing, then the bad with everything.

reply to post by XPLodER


In MHO, if everyone had stood up for their rights. Such as in America, if they had of stood up for their rights under the constitution they would have not gotten into the mess they are in now. Same with every country. We, as humans, who can think for ourselves, whom know what our rights are and whom understand the wrong doing by the government in all spectrums, should have understood, and stood up to keep the rights and truth.

We have became complacent in this life. We are lead by the nose as the msm, government etc, etc. and we are just now coming to a point of waking up. But my question is, Is it now too late to wake up? Those who have not awaken, what will it take for you to open your eyes and see the truth that is right before you daily?

We need to unit and take a stand for the truth, rights and humanity before it is taken away from us.