Homeopathy is 'rubbish', says chief medical officer

Originally posted by Unity_99
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Gov one saying the placeba affect is a real problem for studying meds, especially psychiatric ones.

Actually it says ONLY psychiatric ones, not especially. There is no placebo effect for curing HIV. The placebo effect is solely a 'mind over matter' effect as you put it. Is there any wonder why psychiatric disorders have high instances of the placebo effect?

Many diseases can not be cured by a placebo effect. Allopathy can help. Homeopathic remedies are 100% placebo effect, and thus will never work. The post is not about allopathy being perfect, it is about homepathy being rubbish. It is.

Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by VeritasAequitas

 

Pointing out how bad mainstream medicine can be doesn't validate homeopathy.

Proof that other alternative forms of medicine are effective also doesn't validate homeopathy.

Intelligent life does exist on ATS.

reply to post by VeritasAequitas


I've read plenty about Linus Pauling and after his Nobel Prizes there isn nothing whatsoever in his or his partners "studies" which convince me that he wasn't fudging all or at the very least part of his studies.
In my opinion he was doing that because of the carrot dangled in front of him.
In that respect I cannot take any of his studies on vit C seriously at all.

Typical of quack therapy his website is awash with stories and testimonies. Nothing concrete at all.

Sorry to burst your love-in with dear old Linus but he ended up a fraud irrespective of what he had achieved decades before.

So in summary my pompously arrogant friend, you've been duped.

reply to post by Pardon?


Says the opinion of...Nobody.......Linus credentials speak for himself....I mean they give Nobel Prizes to just about anybody right? Stories and testimonies don't count as evidence? Oh boy

I guess people with Nobel Prizes just like making stuff up, huh?

Typical of people here to attack the people with opinions rather than the messages with fact...

Enjoy your non-existent pixelated fame guys...

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by Pardon?

 

Says the opinion of...Nobody.......Linus credentials speak for himself....I mean they give Nobel Prizes to just about anybody right? Stories and testimonies don't count as evidence? Oh boy

I guess people with Nobel Prizes just like making stuff up, huh?

Typical of people here to attack the people with opinions rather than the messages with fact...

Enjoy your non-existent pixelated fame guys...

edit on 31-1-2013 by VeritasAequitas because: (no reason given)

edit on 31-1-2013 by VeritasAequitas because: (no reason given)

As the old saying goes, you can have your own opinions but not your own facts.
And who's after fame? Certainly not me.

Keep on mentioning the Nobel prizes. Personally I don't care what awards people have when I'm reading a study. I'm more concerned about the study itself.

People get stuff wrong. He did as it was out of his field.
Deal with it.

Just as a footnote, didn't he die of cancer?

reply to post by NavyDoc

huh?
how did you get this from what i said ?

SO conventional medicine is suspect because products are sold but homeopathic medicine is good even though they sell prducts?

imho, conventional medicine has been suspect since penicillan hit the market shelves.
so, you could reasonably say my opinion is biased.

however, the commentary you quoted didn't include an opinion of either.
i was dissing the source for a lack of 'data' to review.

what does that have to do with selling products ?
i don't buy homeopathic products, i make my own.
then again, i haven't been stricken with anything serious enough to have to choose between treatments.

look, all i can say is it works for me.
as anecdotal as that is, it still applies.
sometimes, i don't consume it, i bathe/soak in it.

and the last time i had to go to the clinic (couple yrs ago), the treating physician hadn't even heard of my ailment ... forget the fact that i've been dealing with it for over 25yrs.
(probably longer than he was old)

point is, i was prescribed an anti-nausea med and sent on my way ... the soaks and bottles upon bottles of water brought me back ... not the dr or his conventional band-aid.

i suffer from a female condition known as endometriosis and there is no known conventional treatments for the flare-ups ... it's been decades folks ... where's the medicine ??

for the record, i'm not searching for physiological sense, i'm searching for relief and so far, homeopathy, natural diet, vitamins and a host of activities helps.
i haven't encountered a single conventional treatment that works, yet.

reply to post by Pardon?


CANCER HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ATHEROSCLEROSIS STUDIES I AM TALKING ABOUT......There are numerous studies proving the benefit of Vitamin C to Heart Disease, even more so with the IV and Liposomal kinds...That is also why you don't use just Vitamin C, but a whole list of other nutrients and supplements....Ever heard of Hawthorne berries? Anthocyanins? There are lots of things you can do....Putting a stent and calling it quits is not the way to go....That does nothing to address the root cause of the problem as a whole...

Not after fame? Doesn't matter, your word still isn't worth anything compared to people who actually have experience in the medical field, and I'm not just talking about Linus Pauling....However, did you miss that he was a Biochemist? Do you know what Biochemists' do?

Yeah c'ya.....I seriously think you are just trolling...You've failed to address any of the statements regarding Vitamin C to heart disease, and just keep bringing up the cancer...

While you are at it, do you know how many people on chemotherapy die of cancer?

Homeopathy: Founded in the 19th century, a practice that is based on the concept that disease can be treated with minute doses of drugs thought capable of producing in healthy people the same symptoms as those of the disease being treated. This principle is similar to the concept behind exposure therapy for allergies, but the amounts of active medication used in homeopathy are so small as to be almost undetectable. Scientific studies of homeopathy have returned mixed results. It is considered alternative medicine in the US.

www.medterms.com...

i'm glad i looked up what homeopathy was before commenting and i must say it doesn't seem any different to what the big pharm companies push for in flu vaccines and venom antidotes.

i do love though, how big pharma and big medicine always put down herbals when everything they have and their very beginning was and is still today tied to plant, fungus etc. based medicines.

"Hey those plants only work for us, the big pharma people, you can't be using it for yourself" lol


wanted to add that i believe a lot of what occurs in the "placebo effect" is what really needs to be studied further and i have a feeling it will be tied to stress and it's effects on the human being. when you can bring down stress levels healing has a much better chance of taking place and the opposite is true as well. given continued high stress condition's, we become very susceptible to illness. just a theory though as i don't know if it's been thoroughly studied and documented as yet or not.

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by Pardon?

 

CANCER HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ATHEROSCLEROSIS STUDIES I AM TALKING ABOUT......There are numerous studies proving the benefit of Vitamin C to Heart Disease, even more so with the IV and Liposomal kinds...That is also why you don't use just Vitamin C, but a whole list of other nutrients and supplements....Ever heard of Hawthorne berries? Anthocyanins? There are lots of things you can do....Putting a stent and calling it quits is not the way to go....That does nothing to address the root cause of the problem as a whole...

Not after fame? Doesn't matter, your word still isn't worth anything compared to people who actually have experience in the medical field, and I'm not just talking about Linus Pauling....However, did you miss that he was a Biochemist? Do you know what Biochemists' do?

Yeah c'ya.....I seriously think you are just trolling...You've failed to address any of the statements regarding Vitamin C to heart disease, and just keep bringing up the cancer...

While you are at it, do you know how many people on chemotherapy die of cancer?

edit on 1-2-2013 by VeritasAequitas because: (no reason given)

I've already agreed that there has been some promising results with vit C but it's still very early days yet.
However your comparison with stenting was and still is quite ludicrous as I've already said.
Also,your understanding of atherosclerosis is quite flawed. I think you need to do a bit more Googling....
As for the root cause, typical of someone like you to hint that it's singular rather than multi-factor and by inference easily prevented and/or cured.

My "word" is good enough for me and the people who I advise. I'm more than happy with that. What I don't feel the need to do is to produce studies which have results built around an already decided conclusion. Whether you're medical or not, doing that is not helpful for anyone.

I know very well what biochemists do, my first degree and job was in biochemistry.
There's no way any biochemist worth their salt would initiate a study like Pauling did at all.
My second degree and current position is in cardiac physiology so it irks me somewhat when Internet experts like yourself pretend to be all knowledgeable about a subject when it's perfectly clear you just regurgitate "information" without full comprehension or experience of the topic.

I don't know the exact number of people who die of cancer whilst on chaemotherapy and I doubt very much that you do either although I'm sure you'll throw some random number at me. There's a hell of a lot of people who are saved by chaemo though, far more than you'll be willing to accept I bet.
I do know how many have been cured of it by vit C therapy though. Exactly zero.
I know that as there is no irrefutable evidence to say otherwise.

One last thing though, you really need to chill out.
Stress isn't good for your heart.

Originally posted by LittleBlackEagle
i'm glad i looked up what homeopathy was before commenting and i must say it doesn't seem any different to what the big pharm companies push for in flu vaccines and venom antidotes.

Seems similar but it isn't. Vaccines involve inactive pathogens and antidotes involve small doses of toxins in healthy individuals to create antibodies. Homeopathy is microdoses of toxin being administered to an unhealthy individual.

These patients already have toxins which have already triggered their immune system, if it isn't compromised. What difference does adding a molecule or two of a similar toxin to the body going to accomplish?

i do love though, how big pharma and big medicine always put down herbals when everything they have and their very beginning was and is still today tied to plant, fungus etc. based medicines.

"Hey those plants only work for us, the big pharma people, you can't be using it for yourself" lol

The thread is about homeopathy and not other types of alternative medicines.

wanted to add that i believe a lot of what occurs in the "placebo effect" is what really needs to be studied further and i have a feeling it will be tied to stress and it's effects on the human being. when you can bring down stress levels healing has a much better chance of taking place and the opposite is true as well. given continued high stress condition's, we become very susceptible to illness. just a theory though as i don't know if it's been thoroughly studied and documented as yet or not.

I posted a study of it along with homeopathy and allopathy in St Petersburg in 1829-1830 in this post.
The "placebo effect" did better than both.

Originally posted by LittleBlackEagle

Homeopathy: Founded in the 19th century, a practice that is based on the concept that disease can be treated with minute doses of drugs thought capable of producing in healthy people the same symptoms as those of the disease being treated. This principle is similar to the concept behind exposure therapy for allergies, but the amounts of active medication used in homeopathy are so small as to be almost undetectable. Scientific studies of homeopathy have returned mixed results. It is considered alternative medicine in the US.

www.medterms.com...

i'm glad i looked up what homeopathy was before commenting and i must say it doesn't seem any different to what the big pharm companies push for in flu vaccines and venom antidotes.

Please explain how it is similar? As I already showed most homeopathic remedies are 100% water. Once you reach 13c dilution level there is literally ZERO active ingredient left. Not even a single molecule. Many homeopathic remedies call for a 30c dilution. 100% water. Now. Vaccines work on the premise small doses of the Flu virus will trigger the response so the body will be ready if a large dose (infection) occurs. Antidotes are produced using the venom in question, but the antidote is NOT the venom, it is the antibodies, and is NEVER created by a sick individual. The homeopathic equal to a vaccine is adding a 2nd virus to the first that causes similar symptoms. The homeopathic equal to venom is to use more venom. Although as I have shown, the 'remedy' is actually just water, 100% water.

i do love though, how big pharma and big medicine always put down herbals when everything they have and their very beginning was and is still today tied to plant, fungus etc. based medicines.

"Hey those plants only work for us, the big pharma people, you can't be using it for yourself" lol

What does that have to do with homeopathy? Nothing. Herbal remedies has nothing to do with homeopathy.

reply to post by Pardon?

As for the root cause, typical of someone like you to hint that it's singular rather than multi-factor and by inference easily prevented and/or cured.

As typical of someone like you to assume and draw flawed conclusions; I've never advocated that any disease was due to any one singular factor, and have studied multiple aspects of Atherosclerosis, for instance it's relationship with the Thyroid, and Parathyroid.