Ignorance is wise...

" I know that I know nothing "

nice original post

reply to post by AthlonSavage

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
So perspective determines moods and feelings.

It's possible that it can, yes. It is not certain if this is ALWAYS the case though

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
Is not then it a superior condition for a person to have a perspective which can be changed as easy as changing channels between TV channels, so always to chase the best feeling.

"Superior" seems to be an ambiguous word here. What do you mean by superior? Superior and which way? If Superiority means feeling good, then I would think it is "superior" to change your perspective into whatever feels good - but none of it automatically means it's Truth - and we can not be sure if the perspective is actually certain.

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
And what is the best feeling is it 100%i ignorance of morality to have pleasure in its more depth and intense forms.

It depends on how you define "best". If "best" just means "feel good" then yes.

None of this is certain since "best" and "superior" are also just perspectives.

reply to post by arpgme

It depends on how you define "best".

Mental - winning, successful in control.
Physical - Lust, sexual.

I know it seems this conversation is solely between you two and maybe I'm missing something but the last response surprises me very much.

Although I know it is what many feel, it is CERTAINLY not what I would describe as "best"

Just sayin.

reply to post by AthlonSavage

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
Mental - winning, successful in control.
Physical - Lust, sexual.

That is your perspective. Some may say nothing calmness is mentally "best" or that silence is mentally "best", some may say "health" is physically best.. there are different perspectives from many...

Originally posted by AthlonSavage

So perspective determines moods and feelings. Is not then it a superior condition for a person to have a perspective which can be changed as easy as changing channels between TV channels, so always to chase the best feeling.

I find the concept of superior and inferior relative. Even my own preference changes - sometimes I enjoy my ability to form a perspective which stimulates the moods and emotions I desire experiencing.
But sometimes the pleasure I experience is more of a mental one than sensual. It stems from the experience of control, of mastership and power over my experiences.
That includes the power to choose from the whole rainbow of emotions- including the darker ones like sadness, grief, loss......even .in my self created "negative" experience, a part of me finds pleasure as well.

And what is the best feeling is it 100%i ignorance of morality to have pleasure in its more depth and intense forms.

Best being relative, I guess, if you prefer sensual pleasure... but it seems you included the experience of mental pleasure in control and power in another post...? (I'll look again to see if I am not mistaken)

Using my concepts of morality, I can create perspective which can create feelings and moods, a part of me likes that!
I can make myself feel "positive" when my acts conform to my morals, make myself feel "negative" when they don't.
So that mental part of me values having morals for that creative purpose.

On the other hand, sometimes I prefer complete powerlessness, complete receptivity, no control whatsoever, just sensual input, so then I do not apply the morals. (and looking at how popular Fifty Shades of Gray got, I'm guessing I am not the only one... )

editted to add- yes you did! you wrote:" Mental - winning, successful in control. " see, having morals and "rules" of right and wrong for yourself is part of the tool box of the Mental for its pleasure seeking! )

reply to post by arpgme

That is your perspective. Some may say nothing calmness is mentally "best" or that silence is mentally "best", some may say "health" is physically best.. there are different perspectives from many...

Oh your no fun sometimes but i do see your point!

reply to post by Bluesma


Bluesma would it be fair to sum up everything your described by saying that for the life of a human being there will always be a fine line between pleasure and pain?

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by Bluesma

 

Bluesma would it be fair to sum up everything your described by saying that for the life of a human being there will always be a fine line between pleasure and pain?

Perhaps , yes.

To my mental being,
both are good, as long as I chose them and made them happen.

To my physical being,
either can be good, as long as I am free to simply feel/recieve them intensely, instead of having to judge and choose them.

Can't tell you which one of these desires/preferences are "superior" though....they seem pretty equal in value to me!

(but I think it explains why things like victimization exist in this world... why beings with unlimited power choose to be victimized. Even choosing not to choose is a choice.

reply to post by arpgme


Freedom is Slavery

Ignorance is Strength

War is Peace....

Thread is [snip]

No star, no flag

reply to post by ErtaiNaGia


It seems to me that you are just having an emotional reaction due to the use of certain words. Did you actually read the original post? Will you actually address the points there or just call the thread negative names?

reply to post by NotAnAspie

I know it seems this conversation is solely between you two and maybe I'm missing something but the last response surprises me very much.

you could just be riight still you wouldnt know how difficult it is speaking to this one at times.

reply to post by arpgme

It seems to me that you are just having an emotional reaction due to the use of certain words. Did you actually read the original post? Will you actually address the points there or just call the thread negative names?

Oh, you want to GO then?

By all means... let's GO.

OP:

Deny ignorance?

It is better to Accept it because whether or not it is "denied" it will still be there.

You want us to accept ignorance, instead of denying it, because ignorance will always be with us?

You are forgetting the fact that through that application of knowledge, ignorance can be transmuted to Enlightenment.

If you believe you are ignorant, then you are wise because you are understanding your limits.

This is patently absurd.

Wisdom is not ignorance, it is knowledge.

Specifically, of people.

If you believe yourself to be wise, then you are ignorant because you do not see your limitations.

And this is stupid as well.

You are trying to equate "Be free of knowledge" to "You iz teh spiritual advanced human!"

And it is foolish.

One who understands that they know nothing, is more wise than one who thinks they know everything.

YOU ARE CLAIMING THAT YOU POSSES NO KNOWLEDGE, AND YOU ARE COMMUNICATING THIS CONCEPT USING A KNOWLEDGE OF WORDS.

If you think that believing yourself to be UNIVERSALLY IGNORANT OF EVERYTHING makes you wise, then you are clearly not wise.

Ignorance is bliss because it frees you from illusions

Did you REALLY just say this?

Illusions are the *RESULT* of ignorance, you shill.

I have seen dozens of posters, Just like you, claiming that we should embrace ignorance, because it is "Wise" or some other bull[snip] excuse like that.

And I have denied every last one of them.

You are no different, you pretend to be this really deep thinker, this spiritual being....

All you are saying, is that we should become ignorant morons, drunk on the illusion of their own "Wisdom" and "Perfection" by rejecting Facts, and Logic.

You are just a carbon copy of greater disinfo agents, reading from the exact same playbook.

Respond to me, I dare you.

reply to post by arpgme

Deny Ignorance by Embracing That You Are Ignorant
www.abovetopsecret.com...

There is no Truth... But That Which We allow
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Reality Is An illusion Taking Place Inside Our Brains And Nowhere Else
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Is there such a thing as too much knowledge?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Is wisdom and knowledge from the devil?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The Truth Is A Lie
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Intelligence: The Disease
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Yeah.... I know your kind...

You don't just embrace ignorance, you actively PROMOTE it.

Pretending that you have some deep and mystical wisdom that exists solely because of your LACK OF KNOWLEDGE.

You pretender, You fake, You phony....

But I know why you are really here.... You are here because you are trying to convince other people that Ignorance is some form of spiritual enlightenment.

– This man, on one hand, believes that he knows something, while not knowing [anything]. On the other hand, I – equally ignorant – do not believe [that I know anything].
-Plato

– So now I do not know what virtue is; perhaps you knew before you contacted me, but now you are certainly like one who does not know.
-Socrates

I am wiser than this man, for neither of us appears to know anything great and good; but he fancies he knows something, although he knows nothing; whereas I, as I do not know anything, so I do not fancy I do. In this trifling particular, then, I appear to be wiser than he, because I do not fancy I know what I do not know.
en.wikipedia.org...

Way to take a non-existent quote out of context.... All for the purpose of trumpeting the cause of ignorance.


You certainly are ignorant... but this does not make you wise.

Wise:

3. possessed of or characterized by scholarly *knowledge*



Ignorance:

1. *lack of knowledge*



Ignorance =/= Wise


/thread

reply to post by ErtaiNaGia


Are you serious? Or is this just sarcasm? (Online I often can't tell)

Do you really mean to say that you do not agree with the proposed concept by the OP about "denying ignorance",

Or do you perhaps misunderstand it...... or something?

It seems fairly clear to me that as soon as one asserts " I am not ignorant" or "I have no ignorance." on any subject, that means their receptivity to any further information on that subject is closed.

Denying ignorance, therefore, can be quite stupid, as we are never at the end of knowledge, there is always more to learn and what we know now may turn out to be false or twisted tomorrow, as new evidence comes in.
Denying your ignorance is an illusion, and the minute you close to receptivity, you begin to make your ignorance grow.

Maybe you could help me understand how you see this differently...?


(and do you often click on threads that do not interest you, just to post that sentiment?
Why?)

reply to post by Bluesma


Yes, it seems you understand the idea I was trying to express.

By believing that we "Know" there is more likely to be a carelessness to learning and being aware. Just saying "I don't know" leaves the possibility open.

Even if you claim to "know" a situation, you don't really "KNOW" if it will be as you say. Unforeseen circumstances can happen so nothing is certain.

One thing that I realized is, by saying "I don't know" I place less expectations and therefore am less disappointed.

I'll take a thought like "Today I'm going to do this..." and turn it into "Today, I may do this..."

Then when it starts to rain, or for some reason it doesn't happen (whatever it may be) there is less disappointment as I didn't see it as an absolute "certainty".

reply to post by ErtaiNaGia


EraiNaGia you getting a bit animated and completely over shooting the mark with your responses to the OP. Basically the OP is saying, although mabey not so eloquently i admit is that if a person is mature they wiill know they dont know everything and that their lack of knowledge is partly due to the biases of how they see the world. Them biases for example belief systems we are brought up with, influences we receive everyday of our lives that shape our opinions.

The OP is expressing the idea a person who is aware they have biased formed limitations has a certain wisdom compared to people who have these biases but are not aware of them, nor even willing to acknowledge them.

Be free of knowledge again the OP is conveying the idea that having less knowledge will reduce naturally the amount of biased information we hold. If you read literature of people who have spent years chasing spiritual enlightenment you hear a common theme; where they explain that a person who has little education can sometimes be closer to wisdom and spiritual enlightenment than so called Guru masters, as they have never tried to describe or make a pretence as to what spiritual enlightenment is.

You should apoologise to the OP your responses were not fair at all and very rude. Ok she doesnt write eloquently so what.

reply to post by AthlonSavage


Yes, and EraiNaGia is the perfect example of that bias happening. Because the word "Ignorance" was used in a positive sense, immediately the emotions/biases kicked in before understanding my definitions of "ignorance" , "wisdom" as used in The Original Post. He automatically assumed what I was talking about. Or at least, this is what it looks like happened, from my eyes, but I could be wrong, nothing is certain.

Let me paraphrase again for others who may now be reading this thread.

The "ignorance" talked about here, is the "not knowing" not the denying of reality that is appearing before you. Memorizing statistics and what appears to be "facts" is "knowledge". The "wisdom" I am talking about is being able to understand that nothing is certain to not fall into assumptions and allow new experiences (present - knowledge - not memorized facts that may change with time and become untrue).

To understand that I don't know everything - or that I can not be 100% certain of the things I know, is wisdom.

So in THIS sense - YES! Ignorance is indeed Wisdom.

By the way, I am a male.

I agree with the op 100%, I've been thinking and saying similar things for years, we know nothing, we don't know what's on the corner of the universe, it could be something we cannot comprehend in our lifetimes, I for one will never claim to know the secrets of the universe, maybe I know a few here and there but compared to all there is to know I know nothing, I don't know, it's just a human competitive instinct that makes some people blind to their own limitations, they want to be the best of the best and aren't good at hearing the news, that they are a microscopic piece of intelligence, that has worth, but is too limited to 'know' what's at the edge of the universe for example, no one knows, I'm open, having no firsthand knowledge on the subject, anything could be there, we equally know very little about the universe and how it works.