To Muslim members of ATS: What do you think about Mali?

reply to post by cody599


the original question : "Are mainstream Muslims willing to fight against Al-Qaeda having their own entire "safe haven" country?? "

Well, if the Malian army comprises of muslims, then its obvious that muslims are willing fighting against al-qaeda. Also, note that Mali is 90% muslim.

Mali army retakes key towns from rebels

Also in the OP

Can you all give us an idea of how you would recommend this being STOPPED? Or, will your 1 billion followers just allow such a thing??

You can stop a "criminal", but you can't stop "crime".
Similarly, we can stop a "terrorist", but we can't really stop "terrorism" which is a tactic.

So just because we can't stop terrorism, doesn't mean the 1 billion allow it, as you are trying to imply.

Originally posted by cody599
reply to post by logical7

 

Getting back on topic.

Are there any muslims on ATS that could educate us as to the original question ?

the original question is "what muslims think about Mali?"
the answer is, "its complicated"
no muslims like whats happening in Mali neither the nutjobs nor the france intervention. The OIC will talk on the issue to resolve it. But france dint wait and even got backing from UN. Wouldnt it be more appropriate to let UN forces go in?
Does france have a right on Mali just because it colonised it once?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

as you are trying to imply.

I am not trying to imply that, Skorp! I said I don't know much about it except Al-Qaeda wants a safe-haven stronghold there....
I wanted to know what Muslims think about them having their own "country".

I have not followed the story, only glanced at the headlines. I don't know the demographics of Mali (didn't even know where it was!), and I'm not aware of their resources, economy, or culture.

I am asking sincere questions of my fellow ATS members, for insight and information that best comes from individuals and not from MSM.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Why are regular muslims being scrutinized every time al-qaeda makes the news?

Because the "news" have linked the two since forever.

Its not like they any affiliation with al-qaeda.

Okay, see!! This is "news" to me.....
thank you for clearing that up.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Its not like Christians and Jews would approve of muslims who speak out against al-qaeda. Fortunately, the Koran teaches us...
And never will the Jews or the Christians approve of you until you follow their religion.

THAT ^^^ is a misconception. The Koran teaches you WRONGLY. Now we're gettng somewhere with this thread.

The West thinks that "Muslims will never approve of us (the West) until we follow their religion." And that isn't just Jews and Christians, you know. "The West" is everyone who isn't Muslim! That's a big difference.
But okay, thanks for letting me know how you see things.

reply to post by wildtimes


i also just got a thought,
what if the "al-Qaeda" card is just a justification.
What if the rebels are actually fed up citizens wanting to overthrow their weak & corrupt government which is incidentally a puppet of France too.
Why is mali army being trained by France, even USA from as back as 2005.
There is a lot of vested interest of west in keeping this government in power.
Mubarak in egypt was good with west but people were fed up with the corrupt government, leading to an uprising.
What if Mali is the same, just an armed uprising and Al-qaeda just taking it as an opportunity to find a sympathetic home later if they help the Mali rebels to overthrow the government.
Just my thoughts.

reply to post by maes2

maes2,

THANK YOU for your explanation. THAT is the kind of answer I had hoped for; for someone who knows Islam to address the Mali crisis for me.

Madam, what do you mean by muslim world, those corrupted governments are as muslim as western or eastern governments are Christian or humanist ! these were just my personal views, not the muslim world's.

Again, THANK YOU. I entirely agree that corrupted GOVERNMENTS are to blame for most of the world's troubles. I suppose I was hoping some "regular Muslims" would shed some light on how YOU ALL see the world's troubles.

Again, thank you.

I am trying to get some insight from insiders as to what "Islam" and Muslims are all about --- I'm learning that they are a very diverse group.

reply to post by maung

Moving on, with more injustice toward muslim community in the world, they gain more support from people. Israel and US politic oftenly used as fuel. They have they own media, underground media that show evilness of the western to muslim society, with good naration and abundant proof of picture, video or even witness.

THANK YOU AS WELL, maung!!!

You explained it very well, and I appreciate that more than you know. I would give you APPLAUSE if I could for this post.

What I am learning (and without ATS members willing to explain I would NOT be learning) is that the worldwide media --whether underground or mainstream --- manipulates us even more than I had thought. And I'm not a youngster; I'm middle-aged, with an advanced Western education...

while your post makes me sad, it also HELPS ME SO MUCH, and I appreciate it.

MODS!! APPLAUSE TO THIS MEMBER!!!

reply to post by logical7

A similar question to you what are americans doing when drones are killing civilians, familes, kids in pakistan? What were they doing when afghanistan and then iraq were bombed with tons of depleted uranium!!?
Do you think these actions wont bring consequences ultimately? Who will suffer then? Americans. Right? The big shots bullies will be safe in their bunkers.

We are PROTESTING THE WAR. We are speaking up to our government, and telling them we don't WANT THIS for ourselves, our soldiers, or you all!!!!

Do you see how complicated this gets? We have 18 suicides by VETERAN SOLDIERS every day!!!!! That makes me SICK!!!

I deplore war, and I see how TPTB are pulling the strings to keep us all "afraid" and "misinformed."

Thanks so much for clarifying some things here, that is why I asked!!!

reply to post by wildtimes

Do you see how complicated this gets? We have 18 suicides by VETERAN SOLDIERS every day!!!!! That makes me SICK!!! I deplore war, and I see how TPTB are pulling the strings to keep us all "afraid" and "misinformed." Thanks so much for clarifying some things here, that is why I asked!!!

i see it. It makes me very sad to hear about suicides, they were good humans, so couldnt bear to be cruel and ultimately thought it noble to die than to kill another innocent.
And they are made to fight not for the country but for corporate profits, the patriotism is just a mask.
The average people everywhere are generally good, americans, muslims, christians etc but its not in the best interest of world powers, power seeking nutjobs and corporations etc to make them like each other Or God forbid!! Understand each other. The weapon industry and now the anti-terrorism industry is too big to get out of business. I have heard stories of anti-terrorism companies approaching a peaceful place to sell survillence cams etc and when local government denied, a car bomb exploded a few days later and soon the company got a big contract!
When i sometimes ponder over everything going on, it makes me puke with disgust and anger.

reply to post by logical7


log7,
I think that our dialogues here over the last several weeks have made a difference. I know they have made a difference in my understanding. An open conversation between two people of different upbringings, able to discuss our differences in a civilized and curious manner....

THAT IS WHAT the world needs more of.

Let's keep working for the good cause - and thanks again for your openness. I hope I have cleared up some misconceptions of "the West" as well....
although I'm only one very small speck of life on this planet -- at least we've reached out to one another here. And that's a start, eh??

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by logical7

 

log7,
I think that our dialogues here over the last several weeks have made a difference. I know they have made a difference in my understanding. An open conversation between two people of different upbringings, able to discuss our differences in a civilized and curious manner....

THAT IS WHAT the world needs more of.

Let's keep working for the good cause - and thanks again for your openness. I hope I have cleared up some misconceptions of "the West" as well....
although I'm only one very small speck of life on this planet -- at least we've reached out to one another here. And that's a start, eh??

Sure! Its a pleasure to talk with you and exchange ideas. Looking forward to more..

reply to post by wildtimes

The West thinks that "Muslims will never approve of us (the West) until we follow their religion." And that isn't just Jews and Christians, you know. "The West" is everyone who isn't Muslim! That's a big

You are starting to sound like an average anti-Islamic Christian fundamentalist.

I'll give you an example...Muslims ruled India for centuries.They could have easily converted all Indians to Islam. Yet, India is 80% Hindu even to this day. Why is that?

Your idea that every Muslim is intolerant of non-muslims is seriously flawed.

To the original question:

"Are mainstream Muslims willing to fight against Al-Qaeda having their own entire "safe haven" country?? "

Generally, yes. Al-Qaeda have their priorities all wrong. They are trying to expel the West from Muslim lands, but killing Muslims to do it by blowing up markets, killing innocent Muslims in their homes and forcing people to fight against supposed "infidels". I find this unacceptable, and having another "safe haven" for them will just create more problems because they are trying to reach their objectives through violence when all it's doing is making innocent people suffer.

Al-Qaeda needs to accept that this war will never end, that they're doing exactly what TPTB want them to do (And profiting from) and that it's now time to negotiate peace. Not for themselves but for the entire region. The region needs peace most of all. For God's sake, Al-Qaeda, put down your weapons and allow the people there to have some peace in their lives, to allow their countries to prosper and to allow their children to grow up without seeing their loved ones blown to bits by you or Western forces.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by cody599

 

I guess I would say the non-extremist, tolerant and, gentle kind? The moderates? Those who practice peacefully and allow others to live unmolested; who are fine with other faiths existing alongside them.

Yes, the Crusades would be an example of the Roman Catholic Church's atrocities.
Thanks for acknowledging the question, cody!

I am glad to see you called it correctly roman Catholic Atrocities many always say Christian Atrocities. The RCC is not the true church anyway. the true church is a spiritual body not a political religious entity that controls the wealth of the world.

reply to post by MuslimSkeptic

Hi there!
Welcome to ATS!!!

Thank you so much for your contribution. This has been (and still is) a very interesting thread, in my opinion.

I hope you take the time to read through the other responses and add more of your thoughts.


~wild

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Skorpion!
You know better than that!!!

I am the furthest from "fundamentalist" that a person can get. And you should know that, from our previous interactions.

I started this thread as a follow-up to a couple of other threads that were ongoing. I asked for input, and have been open about my "impressions" and limited understanding of Islam.

I don't HATE anyone; and I'm not "anti-" anything EXCEPT VIOLENCE. I thought it might be worthwhile to open a dialogue so that those of us who are NOT MUSLIM can understand, as I said in the OP, how the Muslims -- yes, the REGULAR MUSLIMS -- view the things going on in their part of the world -- or at least in that part of the world where the strife is so violent, daily.

Why are you trying to portray me as something other than an educated, open-minded, but poorly informed observer -- because all I have besides ATS is the MSM's input !!!-- of things I don't understand, and am asking for help understanding????

Who do you want me to ask??
GHA....

EDIT:
YOU were the one who said the Koran teaches [you] that Jews and Christians will never approve of you. I am stating that I disagree with that!!!

I'm not even affiliated with either group - !!! But I do know that there are MISUNDERSTANDINGS about each other, and that is what I'm trying to uncover. So we CAN understand each other, get rid of the "beliefs" that make us think we are each other's enemies, and MOVE FORWARD.

I'm really disappointed that you would try to wedge me into any "fundamentalist" group at all.
Booo.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by sk0rpi0n

 

Its not like Christians and Jews would approve of muslims who speak out against al-qaeda. Fortunately, the Koran teaches us...
And never will the Jews or the Christians approve of you until you follow their religion.

THAT ^^^ is a misconception. The Koran teaches you WRONGLY. Now we're gettng somewhere with this thread.

The West thinks that "Muslims will never approve of us (the West) until we follow their religion." And that isn't just Jews and Christians, you know. "The West" is everyone who isn't Muslim! That's a big difference.
But okay, thanks for letting me know how you see things.

In that case the Qur'an is teaching VERY wrongly. It seems to be making the mistake that many people also make - lumping everyone together in like, but separate baskets, fostering mistrust. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy if allowed to run unchecked.

I can tell you, with not a shred of doubt in my mind, that Christians and Muslims can get along VERY well, if allowed to - or if they ignore consensus and seize the opportunity for themselves, reclaim their OWN power outside of the basket their fellows have allowed themselves to be herded into, like so many sheep for the slaughter.

It requires a degree of respect, a quality that appears to be lacking in both camps. People who allow themselves to be herded into the basket also allow other folks, those in control of that particular basket of sacrificial lambs, to also issue opinion for them, neglecting to think for themselves. They can have no more respect than they are issued, and sadly that demonstrates to my mind a supreme lack of respect for even themselves - how then can they respect anyone else in order to get along? That's true of many Muslims, and equally true of many Christians. They believe what they are told to believe about others, rather than finding out for themselves, and in the process gaining and giving some much needed respect.

WITHOUT that respect, the end result will eventually be the burning of all the baskets around the inhabitants, until nothing remains but a single charred corpse, the lone "victor".

WHY do many Christians think they have a peculiar responsibility to "save" me, even if I want no part of their sort of salvation? Why do many Muslims feel a pressing need to convert me to Islam, even if I wan nothing to do with their conversion? Why can they not let me, and every other Christian, Muslim, or what have you live in peace? It's because of what their "leaders" tell them, the opinions that are issued to them.

Once you get beyond that, get to a place where you can live and let live, where you think for yourself without having to have a "leader" issue thought to you, and tell you what to think, life gets a lot better. When you see the "other" for what they are, people, capable of deciding for themselves what they want, and willing to face the judgement on their own account when that comes, then respect is allowed to blossom, and people can get along famously. There is no need for me to "convert" any Muslim any where on the planet, or any Christian either. They are adults, able to think for themselves and willing to bear the consequences of their decisions in the hereafter. Likewise, there is no need for any of them to convert ME to their brand of religion, as I also am an adult, able to think for myself and bear the consequences of my actions.

So then. Think for yourselves. Let power hungry "leaders", just itching to create more "followers" using YOU as their agent, languish. See people for what they are, and accept that they have their own minds and decisions. Allow each to go his own way, unfettered and unbound, and watch the animosities fade away. So YOUR religion is "the best"? Good for you! Enjoy it, but allow me my own. To attempt to convert me tells me that you consider me an inferior, and there then is no respect there, in either direction. It only ends in pain for all.

When that day comes, when people can let other people just BE what they want, we can all get along, and get along VERY well.

Jump out of the basket, think for yourself, and let the "leaders" be cast adrift to survive on their own devices, rather than yours. Instead, enter the path with the rest of us, each going his own way unmolested and resting as he likes, yourself included.

Then there will be peace.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
You are starting to sound like an average anti-Islamic Christian fundamentalist.

She was relaying the Western perception that Western people feel Islam won't accept non-Muslims. A perception.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
I'll give you an example...Muslims ruled India for centuries.They could have easily converted all Indians to Islam. Yet, India is 80% Hindu even to this day. Why is that?

Someone needed to pay the taxes?

Early in its history of conquest, Islamic rulers actually discouraged conversion to Islam by conquered people. Non-Muslims paid higher taxes.

According to professor Paul Brians, Professor at Washington State University, some Muslim rulers of India were fanatics who destroyed many Hindu temples but who were vastly outnumbered by the Hindus. They couldn't convert or kill them all.

Link

It should be remembered that Islam also didn't rule all of India. A powerful independent Hindu kingdom existed in the South even at the time of Moghuls. Islamic rulers were however very successful at converting Hindus in the North of India and at various times many Hindus were converted by the sword.

As a footnote:

Surprisingly, during the Crusades, conquered Muslims were always allowed to retain their Islamic religion. In the 13th Century a drive was made to convert Muslims to Christianity but this was entirely peaceful and largely a failure. Part of the problem was that the penalty for leaving Islam was death, as stated by Muhammad in numerous Hadith.

Link