University Is Useless

reply to post by definity


As someone who is finishing up a degree in Computer Science I can tell you that these crash courses that teach you how to program are only good for understanding how to program. You don't need to learn a specific language to do it. I took C++ in highschool and then Java in college. The entry level courses were the same except for the languages we used. I can also say that those classes mean diddly, any yahoo can take those classes and learn how to do basic computer programming. You need to take classes like Algorithm Analysis, Database Design, Programming Language Theory, Operating System Design, Networking, and heck might as well throw in a Programming Language class that teaches you more than just object-oriented programming (what you are trying to learn).

On top of this, you have to take math classes and such as calculus 1 and 2 and statistics. I also took a class called Discrete Mathematics which was taking many concepts from deductive logic and applying them to math (boolean algebra, truth tables, etc).

Even if you were to knock out all the useless gen ed classes you are still looking at maybe 2 and a half years of study in just computer, math and even science classes. Then you need to try to get an internship so you can build your resume or try to get work on an open source project.

Learning how to become a programmer by self teaching extremely hard and I know I wouldn't have been able to do it. I'm pretty sure that most people who aren't geniuses would fall into this boat as well.

reply to post by definity


I have a software engineering degree myself although I haven't worked in that field for a good while.

Knowledge of a single language like C++ might not qualify you for a lot of jobs, even more so today then when I was doing it.

Most jobs want you to know a whole range of things within the area and a lot of the "peripheral" modules that you might think are not useful are there to make you able to code things from start to finish i.e.
Systems analysis and designing the code to a suitable standard using object oriented design (rather than hacking at a keyboard),
Human Computer Interaction so that people can use your program interface in a logical way and structured testing of software to make sure the code you produce actually works as intended.

If you have a job in mind that you want to come from it then I would have a look at junior or trainee roles in that sector and see what they are looking for

If I was young again, I'd do what my oldest son is, work restaurants odd hours and pay for it without going for the student loan, spread it out over a few years longer, and then take the thing I really wanted, art for 4 years, and then 2 years counseling, and hypnotherapy, so artist, and art therapist combined. He's taking physics. This is what I'm encouraging my 13 year old, who is very talented, and was told by art teacher he could get a job for the police doing likenesses, his skill was significant and marketable. I've told him he's going to university too.

It just depends on what your dream is. Some things don't require it, some things can be worked around or you can say. 10 years to get a business going well and credentials, and if its started small without debt, may not make much but won't indebt you, or 10 years going to school and spending money at it. No matter what you do, you still put in the learning curve, either in your business or in the education business. Just settling for working long term as a labourer is not my idea of what to do.

Its your own business and trying to encourage that all people replace all the monopolies with small ethical businesses and only buy from each other.

Oh well I have decided to take the plunge, I will only live once and at 26 I don't want to be the oldest guy their since the majority of freshers at uni are18!


I got an interview at Aberystwyth university for there 5 year software engineering course 1 year sandwich and then last year I do a master degree, I will most probably choose Hacking and Ethical Countermeasures...

Thanks fro the help guys.

reply to post by Tardacus

Trade school, community college, internet course, as someone else already said you don`t need a degree a certificate is good enough.employers just want to see a piece of paper proving that you have some kind of formal training.

I dont know anything about the US in terms of education system or work situation.
However I am lead to believe the temping/contractor game of Labor hire is global.
In Australia vocational skills are not enough for the these recruiter nitwits or their superiors whom monopolise the job market in Australia as i would assume UK is very similar where OP is posting from, infact we get crap load of their Recruiters in Australia its one of their avenues to getting their immigration VISA approved.

As a programmer it is expected that you know what you see when you have a DFD diagram in front of you. That you know how to precondtion your functions and plan your projects. This is system-building. Programming a language? This is something that is expected for you to learn yourself. I learned Pascal at the university. Never used it though. But, that was never an issue. As long as I could learn myself C++, Java, Python, LUA, JS, PHP, C# and any other things the computers would throw at me it didn't matter what program I coded in in university. Some times I can face strange script languages that are specific for a certain program. There might be libraries that are specific for a certain companies and certain context. Knowing the various license-types is also good. Some legal knowledge is good when you code. There are some rules concerning copyright and patents any programmer should know about.

If you REALLY want to show that you know C++ a simple course ain't going to cut it. A degree is preferred because it shows you're a team-player. If you want to show your future employer that you know the language, donate some code to one of the open source projects out there. In that way you will show you're a team player as well as having coding skills. You can download Linux and donate to GIMP, Firefox, Libreoffice or any other major project. There are plenty of mundane tasks that needs to be done there. Correcting comments and trivial stuff. Most of the big projects will have a list for new-comers to begin with when they start coding. Learn how GIT works and do some networking. That's the way coding is done today. In major organizations you won't use GIT but you'll use something of the same kind. Good luck.

Many have mentioned Degree is useless. i Disagree.

Degree is useless when you want to get a job instantly, because a certificate will get you one faster...

Now here is the catch... a certificate will NOT let you advance in your field.. a degree will. with a certificate you will always be a low tier worker.

I work in pharmaceutical laboratory.. i personally know this. People with Diploma and certificates are hired faster but kept at a limit... only way to break that barrier is university degree(it will soon be masters, because the environment is flooding with bachelor degree, unlike 1990 where it was quite rare, Master's degree might be the new bachelors).

My advice is too see the future, how many will be graduating from programming, and how is the future for it.... getting degree and having too many people with the same degree will not make you something unique and rare.

You can just skip school and get the certifications, but it will ultimately mean $20k less per year over your lifetime -- and possibly more. Fewer people are getting degrees these days, which means in the future, the question "do you have a degree" may be the difference between a job and no job (because foreign nationals who come to the country (here in the US) generally do it on a work visa and have degrees.)

What I did was get the degree AND then applied to work in the computer labs at the university. Got experience, got work cred, got the degree, got money.


But I'm lots older than you. At the time I did this, the difference in men's wages and women's wages was considerable in most fields -- except for the field of computer science.

They are useful in ''liberal arts'' department. It depends on lecturers.

I understand from perspective things are quite different from most areas as my country provides everybody with free higher education.

What I can say is college useful in many ways but everything is dependent on how you learn and what you decide to learn, as nowadays college has set priorities on quantity instead of quality.

I am honest, I have not the highest average grade. It is quite low, around 75%. Although that is also not my main goal. One thing is understanding something, other things is just knowing it by heart. Most examinations tend to evaluate your memory instead of understanding. That is one of the reasons for my lower mark. I do not see a point in learning everything by heart. I just try to understand things and learn to apply it.

That is why I have been constantly working since my first year in university and it is a huge bonus in my field.

What I believe universities to provide (at least during Bachelor studies) is the general structure of the field, basics.

These basics can be used well when developing you understanding of your field. Internet is huge. There are millions of pages in every field and it is extremely difficult to choose the best options from all that assortment. After getting hold of the basics, it is much easier as you do not need to build up the structure of the area on your own. I am constantly taking up new textbooks, new knowledge in my area, at the same time getting my degree and getting practical knowledge in my workplace.

Without going to university I would probably never have the skills I have currently, just by studying from online courses.

reply to post by definity


You are right; here in the UK they want to see you having a degree. I have guys on my floor with a degree in history but they did evening computer programming courses and managed to get in. The best once are with a degree in computer studies.

I've told my kids that trying for a 4 year degree, right out of high school, is useless. There are many out there with college degrees who can't find a job in their chosen field and have no prospects in sight. I've told them to go to a vocational school and get a usable talent. My wife is an RN, makes very good money and it only took 2 years to get it. Really trying to encourage them to go after something that has the quickest return and potential for advancement. Then they could go back and finish, with some money in their pocket and not rely so heavily on grants that may not be there when the time comes.

Degree must have it or not what i have experienced is that degree is good to achieve. If one is thinking that he can get instant job after the degree then it is useless. If it would be that bad then why would a number of person is going for it.And talking about the computer degree it is very good indeed. This is the age of technology and if get one i.e computer studies then you will realize how worthy it is.

whether this has been said or not ill say it anyway. I agree with this topic because I believe success in the workforce is more of a "how motivated and efficient are you?" sort of thing. In other words if you show a lot of effort in the workforce you can climb up the ranks.

So while I may be going to a university I find most of my time there pointless

Originally posted by droiddna
Degree must have it or not what I have experienced is that degree is good to achieve. If one is thinking that he can get instant job after the degree then it is useless. If it would be that bad then why would a number of person is going for it.And talking about the computer degree it is very good indeed. This is the age of technology and if get one i.e computer studies then you will realize how worthy it is.

Degree is always worth to achieve.

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Originally posted by definity
So I decided I want to go University but even though I am not the typical 18-20 range. At being 26 seams like I'm old but I'm not it turns out after asking a few people, infact far from it, well in regards to going to uni!.

But unfortunately I haven't found the course my mind desires, you maybe asking yourself what course does the posters mind request.

I want a course that is a Programming course Computer Programming obviously, but every one I have checked has a lot of STUPID counter parts to it. I want a simple C/C++ Course but apparently that is not possibly and I have to learn about 15 other things with which is I actually calculate the time I would spend on this course compared with the rest it would be about 1 semester. Which any coder out there know you can learn hardly any language in 1 semester. Any one know of some pure Programming courses?

I know your gonna say well it takes some personal study as well. But I want a course that is purely programming, the only one I can find is game programming and to me that is useless.

Any ideas?



yes I know some of you are gonna say UNI is a pointless wastes of time and you can study the same stuff at home for none of the price, but it turns out people in the UK don't just hire people who say they can program. I need a DEGREE!

Ekk. UK might be tough. Here in the States, we have small private business and technical schools. You should try and see if any technical schools exist in Britain.

being sixty years old, i would suggest to get into a field that is going to be around for a long time, a degree having to do with oil or gas will keep you employed, and will pay pretty good. an electrical or mechanical engineering degree will always provide you with a good paying job. if you can't afford to go to college for a 4 year degree, people will always need someone to do their plumbing, commercial or residential, and you can't be replaced by a machine. look for a profession or job that people will always have to have someone to do it, and that can't be outsourced or replaced with a machine.