Progress on the Electric Car front

It sounds like some progress is being made on the Electric Car front.

Recently, General Motors North America President Mark Reuss said that the next generation Chevrolet Volt will be a lot cheaper. He also had this to say, and I quote:

"We will see the day when we have an affordable electric car that offers 300 miles of range with all the comfort and utility of a conventional vehicle."

Here is the link to the source article:
Article at AutoBloggreen.com

Personally, I am very exited about the progress being made on the Electrical Car front, because of the environmental impact, and breaking the dependency on fossil fuels.

I am curious to hear what other ATS members think about the advent of the Electric Car.

How much must electric cars still improve before you will seriously consider getting one?

reply to post by QMask


If I could get 300 miles of everyday driving while running AC, and it wasn't so small I can't fit in it (I could not physically get in an RX8, for example, and the Miata is an exercise in torture), and it was reasonably priced for a car I'll only be able to run in town, and I won't be buying a new $12,000 battery pack two years down the road, I'd consider it.

If it's sort of hybrid-ish in that I could put fuel in and go more than 300 miles, it would be a big plus.

I bet you didnt know that the first electric car ever sold was in 1898!!!!!!!!!, by ferdinand porsche to an english aristocrat. The tech has been around for over a hundred years but has been suppressed.

reply to post by Elvis Hendrix


Hi Elvis Hendrix,

No, I did not know that.
But I do own a copy of the movie "Who Killed the Electric Car?" by director Chris Paine.
(I was so impressed by this movie, that I bought my own original copy of it on DVD.)

Anyway, in this movie, they do talk about the very early electric cars a bit. These early electric cars were on the streets way before any internal combustion engine cars.

This movie at IMDB

reply to post by Elvis Hendrix


I just searched on YouTube, and I see that this movie is available on YouTube nowadays.

The movie: "Who Killed the Electric Car?"

reply to post by QMask


cheers matey, il def watch that. hey what about stan myers or miers i cant remember how to spell his name,
they poisoned him for his efforts. Its a nice world we live in eh?

Check out the technology developed on batteries. There is a new battery called liquid metal battery and if it takes off which I think it is then there should be some progress on electric cars.

I also like the work done with cars than run off of compressed air I think they can get 2 or 3 hundred miles off of a full compressed tank which would cost about $5 bucks in electric to fill.

Cars such as Tesla ones are almost mature technology already, no much different in capabilities from conventional cars. The downsides are mostly higher cost and not enough chargers. However I think its pretty clear that electric cars are the future.

reply to post by Maslo


The problem with Tesla Motors is that their vehicles are still way too expensive for the average car owner.

I love the fact that Tesla Motors as a company exist, and I believe they are working with a plan.
Hopefully, Tesla Motors will have more affordable cars on the market soon.

reply to post by QMask

Recently, General Motors North America President Mark Reuss said that the next generation Chevrolet Volt will be a lot cheaper.

GM also predicted self driving cars at the worlds fair in the 30's.
GM also said the American public didn't want fuel efficent cars in the 90's.
GM also said the Volt would change the fortunes of the company.

When GM talks I tune out.

reply to post by QMask


If the charging infrastructure for the Tesla was in my area and they were cheaper, I would LOVE to have one.

reply to post by Gu1tarJohn


I believe the charging infrastructure will come.

Tesla must have a plan to start producing more affordable electric cars in the future.
But I agree with you, the current Tesla is just awesome.

I have watched some of the videos posted by the few Tesla owners on Youtube.
I would also LOVE to have one.

I've been following the Tesla story for some time now and I think they are set to be the real game changers in the auto industry - mostly because they are NOT connected with Big Oil or the Internal Combustion Engine industry. Nearly all other electric car manufacturers already make ICE cars and their offerings so far are nothing much more than "compliance cars" - made to comply with one or other of the State requirements to reduce average overall emissions!

Yes, there WAS a battery technology capable of outperforming all but the new Telsas and it was developed by Stanford Ovshinsky some 20 years ago. Chevron no longer own it (look in Wikipedia for the latest updates on "Patent Encumbrance of Large NiMH Automotive Batteries") but they sure do control it!

Here's the deal: according to Stan Ovshinsky (check youtube for his interviews) the original battery he developed for GM's EV1 took the car 201 miles! GM said "too much" and limited the capabilities!

Now, I know that most people say that NiMH is old tech, but NiMH and Lithium battery development started at almost exactly the same time. Chevron did a very good review of battery tech (now why would Big Oil be concerned about electric cars?!) and concluded that NiMH was the best bet as regards ease of use, safety, and cost.

Then they buried it!

So the world forgot about NiMH - except for the billions of rechargeable AA and AAA cells sold every year.

In the intervening years since Stan's first generation batteries we've come a long way --- NOT.

The First Generation Toyota RAV4-EV used Panasonic's EV-95 battery pack (an improvement to Stan's original battery) that was specifically designed for electric vehicles. Panasonic developed the engine management unit and battery control unit and sold the whole deal as a package to anyone who wanted to build an electric car.

About 700 of the original RAV4-EVs escaped the crusher when the Auto companies successfully overturned California's Zero Emission Directive, and most of these cars are still being driven today with very little servicing, more than ten years later! Some of them have driven more than 150,000 miles. That's some Road Test!

The crazy thing is that the original RAV4-EVs with their first generation NiMH batteries actually outperforn Toyota's new RAV4-EV - and that one uses Tesla's drive train!

Bottom line: we need a cheap, reliable electric family car (not a golf cart or 2-seater please!). Lithium batteries are getting cheaper but they are still pretty pricey for any decent range. NiMH could be a very good answer because the tech is mature (but stagnant for the last ten years thanks to Chevron), the batteries are ultra-reliable, MUCH easier to control than Lithium technology, work over a wider temperature range (Panasonic claimed -30C to +70C) and withstand full charge to deep discharge better than Lithium as well.

As far as I know they are also very much safer and far less fire risk - Dreamliner anyone?!

Panasonic got scared off when COBASYS (the battery division of Chevron) sued them for $30 million for making the EV-95s, and even the Panasonic department dedicated to NiMH development is now majority owned by Toyota. Crazy or what?

Yes, Lithium batteries are lighter than NiMH for a given power but not necessarily smaller! And in an electric car the weight is less important than in an ICE car. Mostly it affects the accelleration (more mass to move). But a heavier car also regenerates more charge to the battery when it slows down so the weight is partially offset by this.

Another factor? Lithium batteries are unhappy if they are continuously cycled less than 30% State of Charge or more than 80% SoC. It shortens their life expectancy. Tesla recommends charging to 77% on the Model S unless you really need the full range. NiMH can run 10% to 90% minimum all the time meaning more available power from a given kWh battery size (this is from Panasonic's data sheet for the EV-95 from 1998). Suddenly the advantages of Lithium are not so great.

Any thoughts out there about this? I want to see Tesla succeed in the electric car market but I also want to see cheaper reliable tech for the masses. Could we have NiMH for the basic family car (look how much NiMH AA batteries have improved and got relatively cheaper in the last 15 - 20 years - we could have had that with the bigger car batteries as well) and Lithium for those who want ultimate performance (at a price!). How much control does Chevron still have?

Lots of things to think about ....