Are you drinking the Kool Aid or making it?

Oh and by the way, when you have time and are so inclined, please check out the other threa of mine: Thing one and Thing Two---it deals with much we discussed here and I think you would find it of great thought provoking interest. Take care, always

Having said all that, I would rather climb the tree of life and reach some nirvana, then live in this rabbit hole.

reply to post by tetra50


That is my point in regards to perception.

When deciphering truths with your inner dialogue one can actually change his way of thinking. I have done this since I was a little girl.

Focusing on what matters, what is truth to me, and kicking the rest out after much ponder.

From the time I was little I can remember KNOWING immediately something that was said or shown to me as wrong. In Bible class, a story that was told by my mom, and so on.

There are however many vulnerable people in the world who believe everything they see and hear. The TV is good for such manipulations. I personally have never watched TV much. Hardly do I because it is not something I find interesting. It does not seek to improve my intelligence but take it away by making me think about things that are simply a waste of my time.

Im a person who will go to the root and work my way up. If I find that I am in a "rabbit hole" it is only to relate to someone else that idea. In truth I see it as climbing the tree of life and deciphering from the root up.

Alice went down the rabbit hole and saw all the illusions. I want to take my time and see what are illusions and what are truths.

The evident facts I mentioned are not seen out of rose colored glasses, they are mere facts.

Lets take one and expand....

There is a system in all things. Thats a fact, is it not?

reply to post by MamaJ

Yes, there is likely a system, but actually a multifaceted, multilayered system, sort of like a spiral, layering of systems, one upon another, so that real truth, even facts are almost impossible to discern. And I suppose part of what I addressing here, is where did this layered system which no one can penetrate come from, nor find who "controls" it, much less its inception.

reply to post by MamaJ

That is my point in regards to perception.

When deciphering truths with your inner dialogue one can actually change his way of thinking. I have done this since I was a little girl.

Focusing on what matters, what is truth to me, and kicking the rest out after much ponder.

and

Alice went down the rabbit hole and saw all the illusions. I want to take my time and see what are illusions and what are truths.

The evident facts I mentioned are not seen out of rose colored glasses, they are mere facts.

Yes, but is anything you mentioned here "evident facts," really. Are just a result of your perceptions after regarding and considering what you observe as "reality," which, of course, may or may not be at all. That to me is truly the point of Alice's story. Although what she experienced, saw and dealt with seemed to be illusory, her journey to find an escape route was no less real than say, my need to get my car repaired today because it isn't behaving appropriately (joke intended, here, in case it wasn't obvious.)

The only way, truly, to differentiate between what are illusions and what are truths is perception, as you started your reply with. But perception, itself, is limited, as any two people may see the same thing quite differently, and then perceive its meaning and actuality differently, as well. Any trial lawyer will tell you eye witness testimony is the absolute most unreliable. This illustrates just that about perception, and how tenuous it, in fact, is.
And this means that "reality" is really only a result of our perception of it, as I believe you kind of stated, there, already. And obviously, experiencing the same or different, all humans have varying perceptions.

One thing that was discovered while they were searching for the Higgs Boson and other particles difficult to detect, or "nail down," as virtually existing, is that they tended to find them, "see" them whenever and wherever they expected to. This says a lot, I think, on a physics level, even, about perception, and how just our observation and expectations that accompany our observations affect the perception we have of what we call reality.

Hard to wrap one's mind around, and if totally grasped, can virtually unhinge one's mind, once accepting the idea that our perception of a "concrete, solid" foundation for the world via our perception of it, that is, ideas we accept as facts because of how we perceive and are inculcated and taught to perceive (if only because everyone we encountered as children while we learning about the world, saw it that way) might have been misinformed all along, only agreeing that this was the reality of life, because, well, everyone knows that, silly. Don't take insult at the way I phrased that, but it is a common response in discussions amongst four yr. olds, pondering the reactions and actions observed in nature, that seem, well, real, and therefore, obvious. And this is how we reach, evidently, the idea that something is fact, or at least, the litmus test we utilize to accept it as such.

I hope you see what I am getting at here. I'm not sure reality is anything even close to what we believe it is, and belief, by the way, is a whole other matter here, but plays directly into what we consider fact, and therefore, reality. But, the "fact" is, none of that may be true at all. And this place we live in may be totally designed, layer upon layer, to make sure we never truly determine what the reality is, the truth is, and one thing I know for sure, after all these years, is a fact is one of the hardest things to define of all things.

Again, I address this in my other thread, Thing One and Thing Two. Hope you'll have time to give it a gander.
Thanks, as always, for the discussion.