Are you drinking the Kool Aid or making it?

Happy New Year, if, that is, indeed, what it is.

What prompted this thread was the title of another: What's your general conspiracy? That really got me thinking every time I logged on and saw it. So, I came up with three general conundrums, and then wondered if I should post this in skunkworks, expecting the flaming, etc., or where, as this is totally unsourced, other than from my own mind, yet not exactly a rant. However, it will require you suspend belief in your own mind, somewhat, to follow my logic, or lack, thereof.

Like most of us, I read many threads here, all parts of, pardon my analogy, a large quilt.....but the dissemination of the threads has us ultimately disregarding that quilt.... Then there are the threads that nod to the existence of the quilt covering us, seeking to shed light on it, identify and quantify it......mostly, to describe either where we are or what we are, within and underneath the cover of this. Such is the nature, analogically, of conspiracy theory. And then there is the reason for that cover, and even our discussion of it, identification of it.....and this being a conspiracy of silence, hidden truth, all its own, and the endeavor to expose the motivations of that.

The resultant questions are many and varied: Are we in a computer simulation? Is there a quantum computer, and are we a product and living and experiencing a product of that simulated, algorythmic produced "reality," manipulated by something or someone outside of it?

Or, are we in an alternative universe, defined by our perception of it, or another's, that which created it.

Or, is this real, and all there is? And all of CT's recognize the futility and hopelessness, and split into groups of the religious (for hope and to get out of bed in the morning and continue on), or the disbelievers, recognizing the impossibility of coincidence and accidental happening, and looking to science or otherwise for answers? We all search. Our struggle simple and at once, complex, and in that sense, poignant. Who or what could put us here, ask us to persevere, and watch.......surmising, assessing, judging, reaching what conclusions?

What I got out of Sandy Hook was this....how frigging horrifying. I don't know, frankly, if it happened or didn't, if it did before, and has again, if it was manipulated, acted out, whatever. What I do know, is the idea, my extrapolation of what it would be to be a first responder, or even a child there at the time, is absolutely frigging horrifying, or a parent, and you are telling me what happned to my child and where i should report to claim her/his body....... But this is the thing: if it is real or not, or happened before and this is a repeat, really matters. It is how we are assessing our environment and making our judgements, based on this ability to extrapolate, empathize. understand, and go forward. So what it is really matters, not to mention the simple loss of life and the horror of what may or may not have happened.
And above all, what really matters is we are living in a place where such a thing can happen, or can be manipulated or acted out---any of the above, are horrifying. And the idea that it might happen more than once....well. How about the idea of the consciousness in those children....was it what they were inherently born with, growing, assessing, naturally, or was it someone/something else placed there, using them as both a vehicle and a shield. And will I be flamed just for thinking or suggesting such a thing.

Which it is matters a great deal, as well. Because it informs what happens next. And also, if it happened already, and we are reliving it, then why, and this should inform the next step. But, without that information we are lost. And here, before I move on from this incident, I would like to say one thing. There is a great deal of criticism of people who tried to dissect what I describe above as being narcissistic in their endeavors, and disallowing and disrespecting life in a huge way by their attempts because of the huge, horrifying loss, actions, and sensitive nature of children being killed.

Let me point out here that the reason we all find this horrifying and sensitive is because we are talking about a focal, very important point that will be the bolster or source for one of my three theories later: the torture, pain, sacrifice of the most defenseless and innocent among us, the weakest, the least able to respond. This happening both alerts us, as well as blindfolds and gags us, with the very facts of it, for that reason. We cannot even explore nor discuss it, for to disseminate it, is to be the definition of insensitive to those who suffered, and the nature of the loss of innocence and life.

Having said all that, these are my theories, and I give them in an interest to find out what you think of them--so, if nothing else, I can determine, perhaps, where I am. But it is also not that narcissitic, for I would never wish to use great pain and tragedy in a selfish endeavor. But everything and everyone alive needs and deserves to know what we are, where we are and what is happening. Else, we cannot hope to proceed in any humanity or soul saving and respecting manner.

What I say there is huge. And let me explain.

These are my three positions (with a nod to the reality there may be even more possibilities.):

Due to memory: (bear with me and the ideas which many will find "crazy.")
Prison planet. A war on earth between good and evil was lost. In seeking to defeat and isolate evil, those with good intentions created, in fact, evil. We are not really in the Milky Way; we are, instead, in Andromeda. Reference, please, what Andromeda means here. A sub-species that cannot help but kill all life. The original planet sought to solve the problem of violence and agression, and aberrance by segregating those who seemed to act as afflicted in such a way. And thus, we are here.

Aliens came here at some point, began a breeding/control program of humankind. The Bible and religion was a product for control, isolation, divide/concquer mentality (ergo, other religions warring against one another). They perhaps knew that the souls of humans were essential to the energy existence of the universe, and therefore, sought to farm and control us, not wanting us to ever know our power or necessity, and also to occupy and manipulate us. Therefore, acts we see happening now have us disavowing our very own biology and existence, as they create a metallically structured world to take the place of the "natural" world, and thereby blame the natural world and justify their actions all at the same time. Think about it, my reference to the Bible above: Jesus died for your sins. Therefore, is he not the symbolic man, justified by his sacrifice for blame for all the sins of the universe, to foment life after?

Prehistoric man and his struggle, and informed morality of humankind is the evolution of progress, and the bible and koran and etc., was a real result, and somewhere along the way, another species came here and took advantage of all that, and created the manipulations, divisions, etc. that have us judging today.....they burned the Library of Alexandria so we would never know our own history, etc., manipulated us with metal and motherboards, etc., and continued to justify their existence

as I describe above?

Third possibility:

We are in hell. The Christian and every other religious dogma is totally true, and we find, the souls here experiencing this, now, even trying to determine neutrinos, time and here and now, are finally, completely, in hell.
And everything, language, nature, communication, the social condition of mankind, our struggle, pain, is just an experience in the burning lake of fire.

And the worst is this: realizing that, makes it even more so, so that even this realization and your experience, thereof, is a facet of your personal and palpable torture?

reply to post by tetra50


Oh, and my threads don't get read, really, because I am late to the party, and that alone should tell you something, but....for those unwilling who may become the fish among us, apply phoentics to the basic english language. The basest meaning is the one interpreted for those who have the power. Good luck...and stay safe.

reply to post by tetra50


Wow that's a read and a nice one at that...It's hard to subscribe for me personally to any one theory as none are based in any scientific fact...science in my humble opinion is theory as it changes as we expand our net of knowledge...I will say that I do not subscribe to a "prison planet" but religion or external intervention is certainly a possibility and along with that comes the natural process of evolution...

And Happy New Year to you!

Originally posted by chrismarco
reply to post by tetra50

 

Wow that's a read and a nice one at that...It's hard to subscribe for me personally to any one theory as none are based in any scientific fact...science in my humble opinion is theory as it changes as we expand our net of knowledge...I will say that I do not subscribe to a "prison planet" but religion or external intervention is certainly a possibility and along with that comes the natural process of evolution...

And Happy New Year to you!

edit on 1-1-2013 by chrismarco because: whoopss

Yes, i agree. though what i propose above is even the science of it may be predicated to support whatever those in power wish to support;

however, thanks so much for taking the time to read and reply.
and happy new year to you, as well.

But, to the point:but religion or external intervention is certainly a possibility and along with that comes the natural process of evolution...

what I ask here, is , if it is religion OR external intervention. They have vastly different implications and so does evoltution. All, very different. So, if you have truly assimilated what I have written, care to expound upon what
you, yourself, have delineated, and what that may mean, as that is the purpose of the thread.

I am still so looking for your, ATS's reply and thought.......

Tell me, please, where I am, and what it is all for, for I have worked hard, struggled much, as I am sure many of us have and do, and want to wake in the morning, knowing that there is both reason and hope....and if not, that whom I sleep here with, have also thought as much, and wondered and at least cared.....

the murder of children. the murder of us as a species. how many threads do you see here, responding to "breaking news," (and if it not breaking, but repeated, what would that mean to all of us and getting up tomorrow), and judging us all as a species as a result of what has happened>......

did it happen. is this the first time it happened? is it us that is the happening of it, or are we a manipulated group?
And what would that mean evolution wise?

The aether? I saw a thread in the last few days about the Aether. Yes, it obviously exists. But there is much that exists that has been hidden so that the "manuscript" for now, appears as it was needed, then.

ok. at risk of having a conversation with myself, but mostly, that is illuminating in these days and times. After all, we are all one, right

the aether: yes, it is the suspensory that we are suspended within. in the thread pertaining to such, neutrinos. Yes, they interact, though it is difficult for us to ascertain how as we do not now have the methods for measurement. This, however, does not mean there is no interaction with matter from neutrinos. We just do not currently have the ways to gauge this.

Just as we do not have the methods to gauge what, exactly,we are suspended within......as to, aether.
a word for the thing we cannot currently gauge, identify, etc.

this has much to do with this thread. do you see it?

We might, indeed, be inside the equivalent of a holodeck. The universe bears many resemblances to one. Just imagine every point of space-time being a "pixel" that can "display" any kind of subatomic particle or string. That's what I consider most likely. This can't be all there is, and it can't be the literal Hell even if it is rather hellish thanks to humans and their nature. I believe we're here to prove ourselves good enough to be made much more than we are, like probationary employees of a company who will eventually become Vice Presidents if they're good enough. If you prove yourself to be evil instead, you get "fired."

I just finished writing a post that says it better. It's very spiritual in a Christian sense, but if that doesn't bother you, check it out. I too wish more people would read my thread.

I think you're also confusing "consequence" with "punishment." If you were making a salad, would you just yank vegetables out of the ground and cut 'em up right into the bowl? Nay; you would first wash them off. Every salad ingredient is fairly filthy after it's done growing, through no fault of its own, so you wash them clean before incorporating them into your salad. God is making a salad in Heaven; he won't accept any lettuce or tomato or bell pepper or mushroom or onion that has dirt all over it. Jesus is the means of cleansing the ingredients, and, for some reason that even I can't explain, only a blood sacrifice does a good enough job of cleaning our souls to make them fit for inclusion in the Heavenly Host. Nobody would be clean enough without Jesus. That's why he set up the rules the way he did: he didn't want dirt or pesticides or worms in his salad.

Not even washing a carrot filled with worms will clean it enough, of course. Those are thrown away into the garbage, or left in the ground to rot and/or create fertilizer for later, hopefully less-rotten produce. And now you know what Hell is. It's not there to torture people. It's God's landfill, eternal separation from the salad to avoid "offending" it, and he had no choice but setting it up that way. What would you do with rotten veggies if you didn't have anywhere to throw them away? This is why we say those who follow Christ are "saved:" because they aren't thrown away.

Incidentally, all those who lived before Jesus were given a chance to follow him after his crucifixion. He preached to them all for three days while he was "dead," in whatever place the souls of the dead "sleep." We might even see Cain in the afterlife, with his sin of murder wiped clean, as long as he was repentant for that and all of his other sins.

If God didn't have sympathy for us, he wouldn't have sent Jesus down here at all. He's our cleanser. And I don't think I can make it any clearer than that.


signature:
There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves; lovers of money; boastful; proud; abusive; disobedient to their parents; ungrateful; unholy; without love; unforgiving; slanderous; without self-control; brutal; not lovers of the good; treacherous; rash; conceited; lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God... Have nothing to do with them. -- 2 Tim 3:1-5
My one and only warning to you all

Originally posted by Thought Provoker
We might, indeed, be inside the equivalent of a holodeck. The universe bears many resemblances to one. Just imagine every point of space-time being a "pixel" that can "display" any kind of subatomic particle or string. That's what I consider most likely. This can't be all there is, and it can't be the literal Hell even if it is rather hellish thanks to humans and their nature. I believe we're here to prove ourselves good enough to be made much more than we are, like probationary employees of a company who will eventually become Vice Presidents if they're good enough. If you prove yourself to be evil instead, you get "fired."

I just finished writing a post that says it better. It's very spiritual in a Christian sense, but if that doesn't bother you, check it out. I too wish more people would read my thread.

Here's hoping you don't mind my lifting your response in that other thread and posting it here. I found it that cogent to the discussion I was trying to raise, so obviously, I do not mind at all the religiosity of it. I do not object to religion at all. The purpose of the thread was to view religion as another "thread," or not---is it a thread in the continuum here, or the reason and purpose? So your response here was definitely important to this topic, as well as where you posted it originally. Thank you for your response and thought on the matter.

Also, I find it interesting that with your response here, you seem to be saying that, indeed, religion may be a thread or theme in this "holodeck," as you describe it, giving a nod, I assume, to the idea that what we are living through here is, let's say, remotely generated, algorythmically enhanced,as it were, and religion may be a trying factor......

Originally posted by tetra50

 

Here's hoping you don't mind my lifting your response in that other thread and posting it here.

I couldn't mind less.

Also, I find it interesting that with your response here, you seem to be saying that, indeed, religion may be a thread or theme in this "holodeck," as you describe it, giving a nod, I assume, to the idea that what we are living through here is, let's say, remotely generated, algorithmically enhanced, as it were, and religion may be a trying factor.

(Warning: thinking aloud ahead...)

Welllllll... applying the scientific method... the universe is something. It might be an illusion, but it's not nothing. If it is an illusion, then so are our bodies... but our consciousnesses can't be illusory. If you believe this story (and I think I do believe it), our minds are not inside our heads. Our brains do not think our thoughts. They're just... "biological modems," transceivers that pass thought and memory back and forth (visible on CAT scans). From where, though? Our souls/spirits. So where are they?

Religious texts, mostly the Gnostic and Apocryphal ones but the Bible as well, make frequent mention of a place where the dead "sleep." 1 Corinthians 15:20... "Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep." Luke 8:52... "Meanwhile, all the people were wailing and mourning for her. 'Stop wailing,' Jesus said. 'She is not dead but asleep.'" Etcetera. It's like the "limbo" of Catholicism (not that I'm promoting being Catholic; God forbid). Some clues to its nature might be found in near-death experiences; the "tunnel of light," through which the NDE participant sees dead loved ones calling to them. To me this is scientific proof that souls exist, though it doesn't answer where they come from, or where they stay while we're alive. But it definitely means the universe exists for some religious purpose. So.

Accepting that sub-conclusion as axiomatic, there must be a God, a Creator, who either resides outside this universe or literally is the universe. I tend to reject the latter; if God's true "body" lived here, every bit of matter would burn up from his infinite energy. So he's outside somewhere and letting just a fraction of his energy permeate the universe from end to end. Science calls it the "vacuum energy." It gives rise to all the fundamental forces, creates things like inertia, and energizes the strings that form particles. Matter is "frozen" energy. E=mc^2 after all. Every point in space-time has enormous inherent energy, any scientist will agree with that, but not infinite energy, or the equation would say "E=∞" instead and the only possible state of matter would be plasma and Einstein wouldn't even have been around to come up with the equation. So that's the universe explained; what about souls?

Well, what is a soul? I postulate that souls are merely information. Data. A computer program that thinks it's a real boy. When the body dies, that information gets moved to another "folder"... the place where the dead sleep. The body is a place too. So is a hard drive, or a DVD, or magnetic tape, or RAM, or a quad-core Intel Xeon CPU. It's the medium on which the information is stored or processed; it isn't the information itself. Souls must then require some sort of "computer" to operate, whether it's a physical brain or some other brain-like structure, and they'd also require a means to transfer the data from one to the other (like CAT5 cable or WiFi or fiber optics). A brain is a neural net, billions of individual storage cells linked together chemically and electrically with ever-changing interconnections. Those connections between the cells also help encode the information (but perhaps only memory, not consciousness). So what brain-like structures do we see around us?

Many scientists believe everything in the universe is connected to every other thing, and entangled photons indicate that no time is required for information to pass from place to place however widely-separated. "Distance is an illusion," they tell us. We could be, right now, using atoms in galaxies billions of lightyears away to think with, and our bodies are just remote-controlled robots that our information (souls) think is all there is of us. God would be the "Master Control Program," living behind a firewall. His true name is a password to enable superuser access. Jesus is a port through the firewall. Satan is a computer virus. That makes souls self-defining algorithms that choose to cooperate (good) or not (evil) with each other. By cooperating, we prove ourselves worthy of being incorporated into the MCP from whence we came.

And 5,000 characters isn't enough. I'm out of room. Why isn't ATS infinite...

reply to post by Thought Provoker


You present a puzzle for me, really. On one hand, when reading some of your other posts in other threads, you seemed quite religious. And BTW, I didn't want to cut right to it, earlier, but your post in the other thread interesting in its analogy. Just to say, I do hope God is NOT making a salad. But that very analagous scenario highlights what I find puzzling, not wanting to call you outright duplicitous at risk of offending and shutting down an interesting discussion, at the least.

For someone religious, I find it interesting that you would describe and compare our biology, and the neural net of our brain to RAM, and various computer technology. And our souls, you say, are simply data, our bodies the folder containing the data, and souls must be plugged into a computer to work.

So perhaps my conclusions of what you wrote are that the universe is a salad bowl, God is a vegan, outside our universe, making salad, and then by your descriptions of consciousness not residing within our minds, nor a product of our individual brains, we are clearly vegetables, in your assessment?

So, back to my OP, I guess you really mostly go with the idea that this is an algorythmic environment for the purposes of farming us, by God??? I sure hope my soul didn't come from a MCP. And I sure hope we are nothing as you describe, as at least for me, it would take the miracle out of life completely. I see the soul as much more than data, perhaps even the antithesis of it. Rather, a spark that makes all that synapse firing through finely tuned chemicals possible at all, that starts the heart ticking from the moment of our viable life...

Don't get me wrong. Much of what you wrote I find fascinating. Just, shocking though, from one claiming to be religious to see God as a master control program and our souls born of a computer, some mainframe somewhere, its own mainframe cathedral, I suppose.

reply to post by tetra50

Everything I wrote, from salads to computers, was analogy. A "parable." Jesus wasn't talking about real wheat and real weeds when he spoke the parable of the wheat and the tares. Many of his parables start with the phrase "The kingdom of God is like ____". "...like a man who sowed good seed in his field." "...like a mustard seed." "...like yeast that a woman took and mixed into about sixty pounds of flour until it worked all through the dough." "...like treasure hidden in a field." "...like a merchant looking for fine pearls." "...like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish." "...like the owner of a house who brings out of his storeroom new treasures as well as old." "...like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants." "...like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire workers for his vineyard." "...like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son." The kingdom isn't any of those things, it's like those things. And it's "...like a salad," too. We aren't vegetables. God's not a computer program. No parable is meant to be taken literally.

Our bodies (brains) don't contain our "data" exclusively, though. Souls aren't dependent on bodies to function; like any computer program, they can operate in many different environments. But in a sense, our bodies are like vegetables. If your soul continues on after you die, then it does not depend on a body; it only uses it temporarily, like a remote probe that wears out. The probe has its own memory, separate from the memory bank the soul uses, and they're kept synchronized (the soul contains a "backup" of whatever data's in the brain). While alive, the body thinks it contains the entire individual, because it can't access the soul aspect of the "program" directly. God is like a farmer, though, raising souls for a later harvest (wheat and tares again). If you're worthy, your soul's accepted, like a fresh clean ripe tomato. If not, your soul's burned, like rotted tomatoes in a landfill.

But since we all sin, we're all unworthy. Hence, Jesus, to make us worthy, like a firewall filtering spam out of your email stream. I hope this makes more sense now.

reply to post by Thought Provoker


Actually, I understood you. Parables, analogies, I alluded to what you wrote as analagous, and understood it as such. However, in my experience, one should be very careful of how we choose to draw our analogies. The end of that continuum of thinking could easily come across as I described.

However, I still find your comparisons as a Christian interesting, and your assertion that our consciousness is not a product of our brain, nor perhaps, our very thoughts. I think that some of my thoughts are the product of my individual brain, and some are definitely not, and coming from elsewhere, shall we say. From God, no....from someone's operation of a computer, perhaps.


And perhaps this is why I have an aversion to comparing or anagolyzing God and computer.

reply to post by tetra50

I know what you mean. Some thoughts are ours, some come from elsewhere. But what generates the thoughts? A blob of chemistry in our heads, or the soul? If it's the soul, the soul knows things we don't, and that explains why we have thoughts we never intended to have. People refer to "soul thoughts" as "being psychic" sometimes. Lives have been changed before by someone having a "premonition" to do something or not. Like someone who gets a wild craving for Taco Bell, then goes there, then meets the love of their life there. What caused the craving? It wasn't a conscious decision. Something similar to that happened to me (at Taco Bell). There's no explaining it, it "just happened," but was it an accident or was my soul guiding me? Or was it the other person's soul reaching out to mine? Or were both our souls colluding in the spiritual realms to get our bodies together? Or do we have the same soul, like entangled photons? There's no telling, in this life at least. I'm sure we'll find out someday; until then we can only speculate, like these guys:

First.
Second.

But it's fun to speculate. The only way to learn hidden truths is to uncover them, if possible. Whether it's my brain or not, figuring stuff out is a blast.

reply to post by Thought Provoker


Interesting links, for sure, and thanks again for the stimulating conversation, as well. As for souls, thoughts, brain activity....I would first like to say that to regard the brain as some kind of protoplasmic "blob," sells your physiology far short. However our bodies came to be, to study physiology is to learn the complexities and the true piece of art that the facades we inhabit truly are. The myriad ways that our organs, nervous, autonomic, sympathetic, etc. systems, circulatory systems, with their fine tuned chemical processes interact and relate to one another to accomplish the feat of our physicality is truly stunning... I think a case, as well, can be made that many of your "cravings" or even "hunches," come out of this functioning along with meeting a congruity with the physical environment we inhabit, all to increase survivability and optimum functioning. And then there is also the possibility that sometimes this comes from another place, as well. One of the ways of knowing the authenticity of one's brain production is sometimes the anchors in the environment and our response to them. And yet, sometimes I am quite sure that what has come through my mind has arrived from some remote source, but I never see this as my soul. Nor do I think we share the same one, as those I have encountered along the path are frequently diametrically opposed to who I am. Quantum entanglement of the identity of these souls, for sure, and I believe it to be a manipulated entanglement, because from all I have observed and experienced there is one here with us who wishes to be in total control of us, to own our souls, as it were. Identity is very important, in all its different facets, from the most surface, all the way to the soul. But I also think the soul is a compilation of far more than thoughts, much, much more. And the "veil" we live under here, at present, is lifted when we lose the miraculous shell of our body, and only then experience our essence in its entirety and all it has experienced and knows.

reply to post by tetra50

Yes, the intricate inner workings of Life are one of the reasons I believe in intelligent design. Even amoebae are too amazing to have come about by accident, let alone a human or the laws of physics. And DNA itself; a programming language with only four digits that can define the blueprint for making any kind of carbon-based life? Now that is miraculous. But I don't disbelieve evolution, either. Evolution would make a very handy tool for letting lifeforms sort of design themselves, adapt themselves to their environment, using the designed DNA language as a means of storing the working models. Natural selection takes out the ones that don't work, and the ones that do work persist. Until we hunt them into extinction. But the mechanism that enables evolution? Someone has to have invented that.

I'm not selling the brain short. I'm just saying it might not be what we... umm, "think" it is. If miracles like DNA can exist, why can't my soul be using, say, all the atoms in Betelgeuse as a neural network to think with? We don't know what's really going on. I just like to consider all possibilities. For all I know, the sun in the sky is the Son of God. It'd be a perfect place for him to hide: in plain sight.

Attributing psychic abilities to neurochemistry is equally as suppositional, too. Like magnetism, science can prove it exists but can't explain the mechanism behind it. With each passing year of advancements in our understanding of neurophysiology, it becomes more and more likely that psychic abilities have a non-biological basis. But so does love. Is love just a chemical reaction? I think that would cheapen it. Love comes from the soul; why not precognition and creativity and logic and consciousness too? Whatever causes one of them probably causes all of them.

I didn't mean to imply that everyone has the same soul. Maybe, like entagled photons, they exist in pairs. "Soulmates." People who can finish each other's sentences, for example. So in tune with each other that they seem like... well, "one flesh." But anything's possible. Sigh.

And you're right. The soul has to be much, much more than mere thoughts. So much more that I doubt it could fit into a brain. Now, a star? Maybe... Also think about the speed of thought. Technically it should be limited by the speed at which neurochemicals and electrons can travel through synaptic media, but it's clearly far, FAR faster than that. How often have you gone from zero to grasping the entirety of a massively-complex concept with seemingly no time at all required to do so? They say that to learn or memorize things requires actual physical changes in synaptic interconnections. Your brain gets a new little wrinkle in it every time more info is put into it. That physical change requires propagation time... but thoughts always seem instantaneous. Either the "new wrinkle" can travel back in time, or it ain't the wrinkles doing it.

And now you won't be able to sleep tonight. Apologies.

reply to post by Thought Provoker

I just like to consider all possibilities. For all I know, the sun in the sky is the Son of God. It'd be a perfect place for him to hide: in plain sight.

Attributing psychic abilities to neurochemistry is equally as suppositional, too. Like magnetism, science can prove it exists but can't explain the mechanism behind it. With each passing year of advancements in our understanding of neurophysiology, it becomes more and more likely that psychic abilities have a non-biological basis. But so does love. Is love just a chemical reaction? I think that would cheapen it. Love comes from the soul; why not precognition and creativity and logic and consciousness too? Whatever causes one of them probably causes all of them.

I, too, like to consider all possibilities. And in so doing, believe the "energy" that fuels our consciousness, of which thinking is only the tip of that big iceberg, is probably a multi-layered, multi-faceted thing, with certain features of it "natural," or "innate," for want of a better word, but undergoing some outside manipulation, to attempt to obfuscate, change and/or influence or even confuse, the course of development, discernment, and attitudes, and mix "identity."

And you're right. The soul has to be much, much more than mere thoughts. So much more that I doubt it could fit into a brain.

I wouldn't sell the brain short, due to its size. After all, we could well be a macrocosm or the microcosm, with cosmic implications. Or the other way around. Every small piece in the spiral, golden or otherwise, mirroring from the molecular level to the cosmic level. And the interplay between the brain and the environment is essential, and what physics also takes on, at those levels, as well.

How often have you gone from zero to grasping the entirety of a massively-complex concept with seemingly no time at all required to do so? They say that to learn or memorize things requires actual physical changes in synaptic interconnections. Your brain gets a new little wrinkle in it every time more info is put into it. That physical change requires propagation time... but thoughts always seem instantaneous.

The physical change in the brain you describe, I believe, is called an "engram." It is a physiologically based new pathway for synaptic travel, making new links and connections and associations from one area of the brain to another, to allow for a fullness of thought. This, in fact, makes quite a bit of sense to me, at least, as to how you describe one assimilation, to a whole reccognition of a pattern, actually seeing that instantaneously. As I understand it, this happens over time, obviously, more engrams, more associations and recognition on this level possible, even instantaneously, the more experience, information and resultant engrams or pathways and associations we have to build upon in that place.

Either the "new wrinkle" can travel back in time, or it ain't the wrinkles doing it.

Interesting observance, for sure, but I think this doesn't account for all the possibilities. Again, a nod to our interaction and possible affect on the environment, or even our dimensional experience.

reply to post by tetra50

Heya... Whatcha think about this? I just now saw it for the first time; I had no idea...

so, since I wrote this thread, pondering our existence as we all do, several days ago (though I've been pondering such for quite some time), there have been several threads, and interaction on my part with several members that expanded and enlarged my original question.

Perhaps I have decided to use this thread as a sort of journal.....

QMask put up a thread, in which I participated and follow still, about our bodies being the mechanism of enslavement and proof, of sorts, of a prison planet.....I invited him/her to participate here, but he/she is busy with his own. No offense, just sayin......

Then I discovered a thread, through QMask's, and if I don't mention the member's name who pointed me here, I apologize, it's only that I lost track while reading that turned me on to this: www.thenewearth.org...
Wow. Just wow.

Haven't read the whole thing, but what impressed me, and depressed me the most about it, was the idea that for longer than we humans can even count there has been an empire in place with control over our planet that thought controls everything in our observable galaxy, and has done business in this way, again, for longer than we have a calendar for.....

In fact, if you read this, you would find that it goes beyond the whole soul question, says that once our soul is set free from our bodies in our current life, our very souls, root consciousness are enslaved and hypnotized to return to a certain place where we will be given a new body and life as a renewed slave.....

I post this on my thread because it originally pondered the questions of hell, life beyond our scope on this planet, as we generally agree on our geography or not, and asks if we are somewhere else entirely, if the faith many of us put our energy into and the texts that back it up are original and authentic and about the very creation of life, or if this "life" came first, is more myriad and varied than we know and/or acknowledge, and in fact, we are held hostage, given a forged history, with said texts to enslave us and back that up, or if some other combination exists......

But I have to say, having discovered the read of 1947, and a nurse's "interviews" with Airl. a being who is a pilot, engineer, scientist, explorer, for a place and effort called "Dominion," who can recall her beingness for millions of years or more, and gave a very different history of this planet and how and why it is being used, much less whom is doing the using, and the opposing forces involved....none of it is good for us "is bes."
Give it a read, if my thread introduces questions that interest you. For the read would interest you, as well.

Originally posted by chrismarco
reply to post by tetra50

 

Wow that's a read and a nice one at that...It's hard to subscribe for me personally to any one theory as none are based in any scientific fact...science in my humble opinion is theory as it changes as we expand our net of knowledge...I will say that I do not subscribe to a "prison planet" but religion or external intervention is certainly a possibility and along with that comes the natural process of evolution...

And Happy New Year to you!

edit on 1-1-2013 by chrismarco because: whoopss

Took a while for me to respond to you, but I wanted to say, even at this late date, that you conflict yourself in an interesting way here, alluding to science as theory (quite true, as we seem to observe what we wish to here), and then going on to the idea of external intervention and that what comes with that is the "natural process of evolution." Obviously, you have your tongue planted in your cheek, for if there is or had been external intervention, then the process of evolution would hardly be "natural." And evolution, itself, would be--that is, defined in the accepted and strictest terms of today--not even close to what is at work.
Thanks for your reply, a little late.