Going off the fiscal cliff is the cure to what ails the US

My prediction, it will not drag down the economy. In fact it will be good for the economy.

When I read this article, I ask, what is the downfall?

nymag.com...

Significant tax increase on the rich, tiny tax increase on the rest of us. Sounds fair to me.

Half the cuts will be to military spending, and the rest will mainly hit corporate welfare and subsidies for illegal immigrants and their employers.

Fed employees getting laid off, and probably state as well. Welcome to the club.

Hopefully all the pork barrel projects slipped in by corrupt members of congress get cut first.

If congress fails to act, Obama gets to decide what is cut.

In other words... Fiscal cliff = Facing reality.

We are living in a bubble where someone can watch TV for 40 hours a week and stay fed at expense of another. In a healthy society/culture one has the drive to help his neighbor, which in turn will fill his heart, and in turn his belly.

I sure do love the idea of everyone paying more taxes for a debt they had no hand in creating.

It astounds me people are going to be completely compliant and allow more of their hard earned money to basically be confiscated to pay a rampant governments debts.

I wish I could rack up tons of debt and demand everyone else pay for my recklessness.

Legal robbery. Proud to be an American.

I think I'd let you tell the 10's of thousands losing their jobs Wednesday morning about how it's actually a good thing for everyone else and they need to suck it up and deal with it. Err.. Given a fair % of those being thrown into the street are contractors for the Department of Defense? I'll stand wayyyyy back as that one gets explained.

Personally...I don't have the heart to try and find upsides to what the CBO itself states will kick the unemployment back over 9%. You're the first one I've seen say a full, unmitigated fall with full impact will be a good thing. Well... Maybe the second.. A couple politicians in Washington seem to think so to. One each to the sides.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Just the recent nail in the coffin of Obama's amerika.

reply to post by cconn487


I am all in favor of eliminating the income tax. The fed gov should collect its taxes from interstate and international commerce, as it should be.

The average worker already pays far too much in tax on gas and sin taxes, and every other place we can be gouged.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


If we should be afraid of cutting military contractors from the government teat, then this country is even in bigger do do than I thought.

In fact, if that is the situation, then we need to cut them off now and for good.

But don't kid yourself, most of them are nothing but beaurocrats.

reply to post by Happy1


No, it's just another nail in the coffin of neocon Ameerica.

The red states are the welfare states.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Happy1

 

No, it's just another nail in the coffin of neocon Ameerica.

The red states are the welfare states.

lol i live in California and its nowhere near a red state but it sure is one hell of a welfare state

reply to post by poet1b

That's the difference. Some look first to see who they work for before wondering if they deserve any sympathy or compassion. I simply see more American men and women who likely have families and kids ...but won't have a means to support them in a couple days. No joy in that....nothing to feel good about. At least not for me. They may be D.O.D. contractors now but they're just another statistic of someone or a family out of options and out of work in an economy that isn't the least bit forgiving of either right now.

At least deliberate cuts done in a controlled way could be understood...but to know you've lost it all because you simply didn't get a deal made in time? Wow... I'm not sure how I'd feel beyond devastated.

I still hold the hope they're playing games here and pop a last minute solution. It'd be cheesy and downright infuriating because so many suspect this is a show and they have a deal in the back pocket already ...but otherwise? That unemployment report due in Feb. is going to be a real barn burner.

reply to post by digital01anarchy


Not where I live in CA. You can't afford to live here on welfare.

How red is your county?

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Hopefully, if one was paying attention, you've got a store of food for many months, a way to heat your house, some cash on store ( the stock market is going to crash), and some common sense to see your way through this gov't imposed apopcalypse.

Every month I pay my mortgage I wonder, is this going to be the last time I bother? If there is a crash, why pay your mortgage?

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by digital01anarchy

 

Not where I live in CA. You can't afford to live here on welfare.

How red is your county?

what freaken planet are you on? just look once at a political map to see how wrong you are. Anyway if your going by county not red at all I'm in a sea of blue, California was once a red state and during that time it had the second largest economy in the world now its a blue state and has one of the biggest deficits of any state

I said this before the bailouts and I will say it again, it has to crash to change. The "Fiscal cliff" is only here because some people don't want to increase the debt limits and keep on borrowing and printing money to cover the expenditures of a goverment gone mad. We cannot keep going on the path we are on, our credit rating has already been downgraded. If they vote to increase the debt ceiling it will be downgraded again. Confucious say when one finds oneself in hole...stop digging!

Obama said if the deal is not completed, the blame will fall squarely on the shoulders of the GOP. Well, they are the ones who don't want the debt limit increased, because it is already more than our GDP! It is obscene to keep going down the rabbit hole of endless credit. How will it ever get repaid?

We stand to lose our status as the reserve currency, and this was manufactured to be by a gov't that can't pay for a pinto, so they get a ferrari on the same credit card. If I can't pay for my Pinto, how can I afford a ferrari? I tell you I cannot, and neither can the goverment who thinks they can keep on printing money and devaluing that same currency every time they do. it CANNOT continue in it's present state.

The incredibly expensive wars we keep on waging are dependent on credit to keep going. My parents taught me to be financially responsible. It shames me to see our gov't borrowing beyond our means to repay and heaping the burden of this on the shoulders of my children, who will labor under the increased taxes because of it for the rest of their lives?

When the crash happens, maybe they won't have the money to pay social security to every illegal immigrant who can find a DSHS office while americans who worked all their lives get denied. Maybe they will see the fallacy of letting illegal immigrants vote and get drivers licenses despite their lack of ID. Maybe they will see why they should not give immigrants business loans that americans get denied for! Immigrants do not have to pay taxes! Why not I say? WHY NOT? If they are working here, they should be paying here just like the rest of us poor suckers who keep on working so people can sit around and smoke dope all day and watch tv while they laugh at the guy going to work across the street!

The system is broken, and I say we should hold the senate and the house of representatives and the supreme court and all the Federal reserve too for treason against the USA. The are all complicit and worked to gether to bring this on us, and the taxpayers will bear the burden for generations to come. Let the madness stop here...

Please, for the love of god, just collapse already. I'm tired of hearing about it.

Some people need to learn how to let go, we need to let go to fix the problem. We're trying to hold onto a faulty system that has run it's course and you can hear the death rattle.

I've said for a while now, a phrase that half-heartedly explains why we need to regress before we can make any beneficial changes, "You can't mold dried clay." This speaks volumes to me. People are so abundantly over-zealous towards the structure of our society and they need to let of that fantasy. It's like a 5 year old making a big deal about not being able to make his clay bowl symmetrical after it's already been put in the kiln. Let go, make a new one, yes in this scenario, the consequences are more dire than just reshaping some wet clay.

People are going to get hurt, people are going to die, if you're not aware... that is part of life. Get over it. Death is really not that big of a deal, it's something I deal with all the time, it hurts but it is not the end of our world, and the human race will keep on progressing, just be happy to have a had the time with loved ones when you did.

I'll follow up that cold-hearted statement with, we need a thinning of the heard, the inner heard is getting too comfortable relying on the outer heard, it has made us stagnant, we can no longer move the heard, and the fields have gone dry here. Now, before I seem to be with our cognition, I must state that this is the harsh reality we all need to face, not just a few, but all of us. The strong need to quite propping up the weak, the weak are useless and hold humanity back, if they can't make it, then they loose the race.

Alright, I'm done with all the analogies.

reply to post by Coopdog

I dont know as much as i should about the American economy,national debt,fiscal cliff-but what you say makes a lot of sense-and from what ive been reading on this site,its become apparent to me that sooner or later,something's got to give,sooner or later.It just seems to me-your government is building a house of cards,its getting higher+higher..As for the immigrant issue,i do feel its only fair+sensible that if you work in another country,you should be taxed by that country that gave you an income,and propably a better standard of living that you had in your country of origin.I used to have an online friend, Mexican American,his parents were immigrants,but he was born in LA.Well,he told me straight up,as long as he can get his unemployment benefits,its free money,yayy! +he could pay a small amount to the relatives he who took him in after his own mother threw him out because of his drug use+lazy shiftlessness-and sit in the park smoking dope and going to raves.Needless to say,the friendship floundered-i got tired of telling him that he had to find a job+stop being dependent on relatives,and hearing nothing but excuses and "Oh the f**king guvment OWES ME,cuz they such a bunch of greedy evil assholes" I told him thats exactly why he should not depend on Any government,being a healthy able-bodied young man-that :-) didnt go over so well,im afraid.

I grew up in a welfare social security state. Maybe that jaded me as a man who has been working his ENTIRE life to make ends meet. In the town I grew up in, you get social security for being an alcoholic or an addict! You get social security for your kids because they are adhd! There are many people there who have 4-6 kids because they get more on their welfare checks for every one they have! They brand their kids unable to work before they are in the 2nd grade!

This is a fantasy for drug addicts, it is a nightmare for the working fools who have to keep paying for them all. My hometown has been overtaken by heroin and alcoholics, and God help me I love some of them, and I have supported some of them as their lifestyle killed them off, but the goverment does not owe them anything! I will be flamed because I just said something in another thread about not turning your back if an addict or an alcoholic needs help, but that is not saying I think they should have a free lifetime ride on the back of the taxpayer. I may have to eat crow and go retract that statement alltogether because I misspoke myself and made myelf the hypocrite I was accused of being.

I believe in being responsible for your family and the people around you. I believe in working hard to pay my debts and help others. However this is my choice, and should not be done through taxing me to death to support the ones who chose to make a lifestyle out of a welfare check. Universal healthcare is not that, it is universal tax increases, because there is no free lunch, and somebody has to pay for it all. What will happen when people like me decide wow, why am I doing this, I am too tired to keep working, I need some social security and food stamps myself. TIme for me to lay around and do nothing and get paid.

Oh wait, I would lose my home, I would have to get a low income apartment. I would have to give up my animals, and my freedom to play music and make racket till 3 am if that is what I want to do. Right, so I will keep working, because I like my life, and I like having a home to bring my relatives into in their time of need when those times come. What was I thinking? Who would take up the slack if we all jump that fence? Oh yeah the goverment can just make more money to pay for us all...while we have the reserve currency anyhow...

Welcome to the "Tipping Point"! Just what Obama and his handlers need to further cripple the nation. We are poised to witness an economic collapse like nothing seen in this country before. The value of the dollar?? What dollar?

Tick Tock goes the clock and my money says Obama will have one hell of a smile on his face when he sips his champagne at midnight....

reply to post by Raxoxane

Sadly, I think you got a very good look at the core problem here. When all is stripped away and all the little issues or political chaos is removed to see what lies at the bottom ...there are but a couple issues in my view. I mean for what has really brought us to a point where I'm not sure we DO recover in any way fit for the description. You saw it and said it right there.

The Government OWED him because they were greedy ..so being lazy, living off the work and generosity of others and sucking off the system despite having no actual physical need to do so.....is killing us outright.

It's not terminal if the ratio of workers to people taking stays in the black, so to speak...but that ratio is shifting the wrong direction and just as the biggest whammy of all is hitting. Baby Boomers are retiring. Thats been a bomb talked about for at least 15 years, although buried under the back to back nonstop crisis mode that has defined the last several years now.

I have absolutely no problem with society supporting 3 classes of people....but ONLY 3 classes of people. The very old, the very young and those flat out unable to work by physical or mental issues (at a point any average person can see the issue at hand). Anything else needs to be strictly time limited for a reasonable period everyone can agree on for life's little catastrophes which befall just about everyone once or twice in a lifetime.

The problem now....everyone who can simply qualify, regardless of challenge or actual need ..just qualify by paper requirements..is effectively "retiring" at whatever age they are to start the benefits. Ummm... People can't retire in their 20's and 30's on Gov't support and expect a nation to last very long.

reply to post by digital01anarchy


I live on the planet not dominated by right wing radio shows that poison your mind.

When CA was the 2nd largest economy on the planet, it was a blue state, and the economic powerhouses of the state of CA have always been blue, represented by Democrats.

Just like everywhere else in the country, including Texas, the tech centers/economic centers vote blue.