Does the Royal New Zealand Airforce need a fighter wing?

Alien........what about straping the drunk Maori guy into a microlite, with a semi sober pilot. Then we could give him a really big broken bottle and possibly a cut down .22 rifle.

The only thing is we don't want the pilot and "weapons system' to start fighting with each other whilst in flight!

Originally posted by BillyTheCat
Are you serious about the Tornado????..........What time frame do the RAF have for selling these babies off??

- Check this out www.airforce-technology.com....

So, at least one full squadron becomes available in 05.

How many would NZ need?

I can't see the F3 being cannibalized for any parts what with the GR4's set to be thinned down too.

I suppose that we have been 'forced' to go for the bloody Euro Fighter???

- Hey, don't knock it.

The Eurofighter is our Eurofighter, we conceived it, designed and are building it.

Eurofighter Typhoon is a class piece of kit and a significant expansion of the RAF's capabilities.

[edit on 25-10-2004 by sminkeypinkey]

Well the US navy is retiring tis F-14 fleet, maybe you should look into it.

The F/A-18 A/B is also a good ircraft for NZ needs, Autralias got them and were retiring some for the Super Hornet so that could be an option. Excellent multi-role aircraft.

Originally posted by craigandrew
Mad American.......are you a sales rep for US Aerospace? NZ has less money to spend on defence than Australia does.....a lot less. If they had F-35 and only two pilots to fly it....they would still have to flip a coin!

OK - I was just thinking that for just 1 wing they might be able to get them, since the JSF is supposed to be very cheap.

I still think F-16's would be a good choice though

Originally posted by roniii259
Well the US navy is retiring tis F-14 fleet, maybe you should look into it.

The F/A-18 A/B is also a good ircraft for NZ needs, Autralias got them and were retiring some for the Super Hornet so that could be an option. Excellent multi-role aircraft.

If the F-14 was too expensive for the USN to keep in service something tells me that it might be too expensive for NZ.

The RAF was retiring Tornado GR.1b wired for Sea Eagle ASMs.

They replaced the Buccaneers.

They would be good for NZ. But again. Two pilots flipping a coin for the ride for what they can afford.

Hawks are looking better and better. Hey Helen Clarke goes and NZ buys surplus F-18s off the Canadians.......the RAAF can help them start up again quick time. Or one of the NATO countries with F-16s. The NZ left would have a stroke if they invited Americans to do it (no offense yanks)

Its a bugger about Tornado. Hate bloody beancounters. Its always this or that with them.

Tornado F.3 GR.4 and the Typhies complement each other, not compete with them. It wasnt the F.3s fault it never got to shoot down MiGs and Suhkois over the North Sea or the Gulf. Its like the F-15C - F-15E- F-16 package of the USAF...........except British Labour is so S**t scared of loosing the elections its trying to find vote money out of the bare bones of the UK Forces arse.

Sorry to see them, the Jaguars and the Shar.2s going. At this rate it will be the UKAE Wing of the USAF.

[edit on 25-10-2004 by craigandrew]

come on mad maori we arent that bad off at the mo..
at least with the sticks you mentioned.
we actually have one of the most respected modern armies around at the moment.
skill wise that is,
and now with the Billions spent on army equipment in the last 2-3 years we are getting up there with that side of things as well.
people knock the LAV's we just got but thats because the public seems to think its a tank.
its not meant to be a tank.
The RNZN has some pretty damn fine ANZAC class frigates to with 3-4 more coming.
they are built in aussie though which confuses me,
we have one of the most advanced ship building industries there is.
its small but very very good.
on the RNZAF side of things we have informal agreements with the australians that we maintain some very high standard Infantry Battalions,(which is what Australia is slightly lacking in, or so im told)and if we have trouble in this area of the world we will revert to Co-op type ops.
i mean honestly we arent gonna get no hijackers trying to fly a plane into the skytower are we!!!
think about it.
nobody hates us.
we did a good thing in Timor and he only people with any reason to be unhappy about that is indonesia.
and i think they need sorting out anyway.
Timor was not about anything to do with Islam.
so Islamic extremists shouldnt be dumb enough to think that had anything to do with them.
Solomon Islands was a good thing noboy hates us about that.
the people there are thankfull.
all of them.
nobody wanted war over there.
it was only about equal rights to government.
our Army engineers in Iraq were building hospitals, schools and water treatment plants.
a mate who was there told me a story about them playing a game of soccer with a bunch of locals.
our guys in Afghanistan are doing good things.
nobody hates us there.
trust i know.
i was there on Op Crib 4.
in fact Hamas has praised New Zealand about our strong stance against Isreali Int Officers operating in New Zealand.
it was a while before we managed to get thosebloody isreali's to formally apoligise for that.
but they did it.
and we still havent forgiven them.
so no.
i dont think that at this stage we need a fighter wing.
and the fighter pilots we did have were considered some of the best.
the only thing that was old about our skyhawks was the airframe.
all the gizmo's inside were all up to date technology.
the problem is that they are costing us just as much to keep them on the ground in woodbourne as they did when we were flying them on training flights through the Queen Charlotte Sounds!!!!

by the way Mad Maori,
What is your Iwi?

The only thing the world has any interest in here in nz is the haka lol...

Seriously though, as far as terrorism is concerned, they like to make the "big splash"....the "grand hit"....so to speak. Most of the big bad world don't really give a flying F*** what happens to NZ in the whole scheme of things! I've lived in UK for years, just returned to nz a couple of years ago. The terrorists strike where it hurts the superpowers the most......and I don't think Helen C's relationship with Bushy or Blair is worth the terrorists efforts. They hit where it hurts the warmongers the most.....and that ain't NZ.

Politically speaking, I'd rather see money spent on healthcare etc blah blah than on fighters that will sit around wasting space only to be dubbed obselete in years to come.

Just my 2c worth

what, just like the skyhawks are still sitting in woodbourne airbase gathering dust costing us $
i think we wouldnt even need these tax cuts both nat and lab are flogging to us at the mo.
if........
we managed to sell these skyhawks like they have been telling us they would for years!!!

and sanse.
we are not boring.
we are a lot more involved with thew world than you think,
trust me!!

I agree wardr08e, we are FAR from boring.....I was meaning in the eyes of those #$&@** terrorists, they'd consider lil ole NZ a petty target.

As for these fighters you're talking about....I don't know jack about them to be honest, being a girly, I don't tend to follow these things too much - what I do believe though, is that money wasted sitting around in hangers etc, is money that could be better utilised saving lives of people on waiting lists etc.

*grins* Geeesh, politics sucks doesn't it!

so where bouts in NZ you from?
i live in Wellington but im from Burnham originally

so where bouts in NZ you from?
i live in Wellington but im from Burnham originally

Im in Chch now, although from Wellington originally Only came back to nz a couple of years back and dang its good to be home.
We don't realise how lucky we are in this country. I guess thats where my "we're not interesting enough for terrorists" thoughts come from. I was on the exact same flight that went down over the pentagon - 4 days before 9/11. Sobering stuff.

Perhaps my rose tinted glasses might be naive, but the terrorists aim for the most impact (no play on words intended). NZ is just too small to be spending trillions on fighters etc. I could imagine Brashy debating with me about that - although it wouldn't be hard to rebut over the top of him lol

Picture Saddam Hussein sitting in his office contemplating the current crisis and drinking coffee... His phone rings…

"Kia Ora", would that be Saddam Hussein?"

"Hello, yes, this is Saddam speaking, who is this and what do you want?"

"Well now Saddam this is Rangi, and I'm ringing from the Lonely Arms Pub in Auckland, New Zealand, to tell you that we are officially declaring war on you"

"Well, Rangi," Saddam replied, "This is indeed important news! How big is your army?"

"Right now," said Rangi, after a moment's calculation, "there is myself, my cousin Toru, my next door neighbour Rua, and the entire dart team from the Pub. That makes eight altogether"

Saddam paused. "I must tell you, Rangi that I have one million men in my army waiting to move on my command."

"Heck!" said Rangi. "I'll have to ring you back!"

Sure enough, the next day, Rangi calls again. "Bro, its me again Mr. Hussein, the war is still on! We have managed to get the hold of some infantry equipment!"

"And what equipment would that be, Rangi?" Saddam asked.

"Well, we've got two tractors, a bulldozer, and the loan of Rua’s Honda 90"

Saddam sighed. "I must tell you, Rangi, that I have 16,000 tanks and 14,000 armoured personnel carriers. Also, I've increased my army to 11/2 million since we last spoke."

"Are you tricking me!" said Rangi. "I'll have to get back to you on that one"

Sure enough, Rangi rings again the next day. "Mr. Hussein, the war is still on! We have managed to get ourselves airborne! We've modified Ewen Smiths micro-light with a couple of 12 bore double barrel shotguns in the cockpit, and four bro's from the golf club have joined us as well!"

Saddam was silent for a minute and then cleared his throat.
"I must tell you, Rangi, that I have 1,000 bombers and 2,000 fighter planes. My military complex is surrounded by laser-guided, surface- to-air missile sites and since we last spoke, I've increased my army to TWO MILLION!"

"E mea, te riri nei au!" said Rangi, "I'll have to ring you back."

Sure enough next day, Rangi calls again "Kia Ora this morning', Mr.Hussein! I am sorry to tell you that we have had to call off the war."

"I'm sorry to hear that," said Saddam. "Why the sudden change of heart?"

"Well," said Rangi, "we've all had a long chat over a couple of Beers, and decided there's no way we can feed two million prisoners.

Kia ora katoa e hoa mai! Tino pai Netchicken, tino pai rawa!

That last post is simply beautiful Netchicken!

For me I thought the F16 wing was the way to go. Capable versitile plane that would have filled multiple roles for us. However having said that we must remember that in NZ this isn't a military or needs question. Such things are decided nearly completely on a political basis, how many votes will it cost/get me?. I won't worry about my views on that, needless to say I don't entirely agree.

How about Super Hornets. They are quite advanced but not that expensive. The are built for maritime missions and they can do just about everything. Interception, striking...
Can take out planes, ships, land units. Plus they are really tough and proven.

I guess they would be their best bet.

Switzerland, a neutral country, has fighters...

From a pragmatic perspective, I don't believe New Zealand needs a fighter wing (actually it was previously a strike wing) due in a large part to its geographic location.

From a personal perspective however, as a kid I lived on the flight path for Ohakea AFB exercises (from Ohakea to the east coast and back). Hearing the crescendo of a jet engine, running outside and seeing an A4 at 500ft scream across the top of your house - often followed or preceded by the Strikemaster trainers was a sight to behold! We saw not only the A4 and Strikemaster – and later the Aermacchi MB339 - but also Australian F18s and F-111s, Hercules transports and even a British Navy Sea-king en-route to its carrier!

I miss those days!