The Bible is the literal word of God, Discuss?

This has spilt over from another topic.

It seems there are two types of people in this world, those who believe the bible is the literal word of God, and those who believe it is historical allegory and metaphor. Within this last category there are two subdivisions, those who believe it�s a Christian document to be followed regardless of its origins, or those who believe it is a political tract using events and fabrication to exercise a form of control over the world, much as any religion has over all history.

I think it may be apparent from which viewpoint I am starting from. I thought it would be helpful to start a new topic so we can structure some good discussion, although I know we are dealing with beliefs it can become heated; let�s stick to evidence here, rather then hyperbole and conjecture, and indeed insults. I really want to have a proper debate where we can all air our views.

I have read the bible, and have studied it. I was a Christian in my early teens, and was confirmed in the Church of England. The sense of family and caring was great. But as I grew older and looked in to it more I began to see that it was founded on misinterpretation and historical inaccuracies.

This led me to study the bible in more detail, and although I laud its teachings on how to live with your fellow Man, I do not believe it can be taken literally.

The arbitary manner in which God�s word was decided by first the Council of Nicea, in 325AD. Where 80 gospels where considered for inclusion in the bible, and the different political factions supported there interpretations that legitimized there churches closeness to Jesus and God. They also decided upon the divinity of Jesus, bare in mind this is 300 years after he died. You must remember that in these times religion and politics where inextricably linked, priests weren�t just community leaders they were the link between man and God, so commanded huge power.

I think the bible is an important historical document but to interpret it as literal is both misguided and na�ve. Although I dont hold it against anyone all I ask is people approach this with an open mind, as they would any other thing in the world.
Peace

There's no possible way that it is....it was written by man and then re written and torn apart each time it didn't suit whomever was re writing it.

I am suprised no one else has stepped in to air their views...
I agree though Lady V...

Just give it time and you'll have the usual suspects here airing their views of the Bible both for and against....

The Bible is a great book that has lasted for thousands of years. It is a collection of stories, fables, and legends some older than Christianity repackaged to fit the need such as Noah's flood and the resurrection itself. It is a good read full of sex and tretchery and betrayal - the authors knew what would hook their readers. A boring book to follow wouldn't be as easy to accept and want to read. The litteral word of God, Nah. Useful and good at serving it's purpose? Yup.

A lot of the events can be actual things that happened - Noah parting the Red Sea can be explained by winds that push back the water to walkable depths, the flood can be a flooding of the only area the authors knew about and compared to old legend, ressurection is possible with the way people were crucified and herbs used (appearance of death, but not death), and so on. Many of the stories are likely based on actual events and goings on of the times, but it's not the word for word account of life 2000+ years ago to the beginning of time.

The Bible serves a purpose, though. It tells these interesting stories to hilight morals and to have the reader place themselves in the shoes of another. It teaches right and wrong through effective stories wether one is Christian or not. Kind of like the sitcoms of the 80's that taught kids not to lie, not to do drugs, not to steal, and how to be good people - think Family Ties, Growing Pains, and Cosby Show. Golden Books and Aesop's Fables practice the same concept of storytelling to get across moral points.

Everyone should be familiar with the Bible - even those who are not Christians. Why? How could I say such offensive things? Because it's become part of common culture. If you know some of the stories, you get things and references that others might not. When someone says "wash your hands of this" then you get the reference. It's the same argument for why a kid should learn Geometery or how to play an instrument even though they plan to be a Speech Therapist. It makes you a more well rounded person, and you understand so much more of the world around you. We shouldn't just stop at the Bible though, we should all be familiar with the religions of the world around us. I own the Q'ran, Bible, Wiccan books, etc. It's nice to understand what others believe, and all religions have some valuable lessons. It's also helpful to understand the things you DON'T believe in before making wild assumptions about others. A perfect example: the thread on Halloween being about satanism and Wiccans being compared to satan worshipping gouls - the opposite of what it's really about.

Interesting , realy vey interesting --- Hi to all -- oh my head !!??

The first word in the Bible is (in the begining ) or (au commencement ) ;

in fact the word is: BERAE#H = ALIANCE DE FEU = FIRE ALIANCE

Try srirals.eternite.com...

Good reading and good logic chapo

Has anyone ever considered that the bible is mearly one of the longest surviving book of stories in the world ? maybe there is some truth in the bible but maybe it is fictional....just an idea though

Originally posted by racos
Has anyone ever considered that the bible is mearly one of the longest surviving book of stories in the world ? maybe there is some truth in the bible but maybe it is fictional....just an idea though

That's pretty much what we've all said in this thread.

It might have some basis in actual events, but the Bible consists of stories and fables and legends, or rewritten and reworked versions of an older document.

Fiction can have a small basis in reality wether its people or a place or a personal interpretation of events.

You already know what those of us who believe in the Bible are going to say. We can't make you believe that the Bible is one of the ways God talks to us. You have decided to not believe the truths that are in it.

There was a christian scholar(Ravi Zacharrias) and an secular scholar debating the Bible and Christ and christianity and they discussed their views. The secular dismissed the Bible and Christ and what they were about as having no value. At the end of the discussion Ravi asked the man if he were walking down a dark street at night and a group of men came out of a door and began to follow him, would it make any difference to him if he knew the men were carrying Bibles and had just come from a Bible study. The man admitted that it would.

I am interested in what you say dbrandt maybe I should have called this thread, what makes you believe in the bible, surely not that someone just told you to. What in it makes you have faith? I am not here to shout you down I am genuinley interested. Please talk about your faith.

Originally posted by bigdanprice
Please talk about your faith.

OK, I was watching Biily Graham when I was about 6,7 or 8. He simply stated this that each individual's sins, and even one sin, seperates us from God now, and for eternity, and I can't pay for my own sins, someone sinless has to otherwise he would have his own to pay for. But God loved us so much that He solved the problem, He himself would come and live in the same flesh as a man and take the punishment for sin, my sin. God has to judge sin or He wouldn't be just. That was done on the cross and now I have to accept that. I have to give over my sin to Christ and let Him pay for it. I didn't want it anymore. I BELIEVE that. At that moment my dead spirit was brought to life by the Holy Spirit who literally lives in me. There was no fireworks or flashes of light to signify that an exchange had taken place. I couldn't have said this at 6 years old but what was there was the first step in a relationship with God. That first step is faith. I BELIEVED what God said was true about Jesus Christ and what He did for me, and all I had to do was believe. God tells us that without faith it is impossible to please Him

Now I didn't live like I was saved for another 20 or 24 years. I lived like I wanted.

Here's the thing that made God real to me. My mom found a lump in her breast and let it go for 6 months after finding it. She went to the Dr. and it wasn't good. She had to go for tests to see how far it had spread. There was a 2 or 3 day interval before the tests and I was concerned and constantly praying. One night there was a thunderstorm over my town and my 2 daughters would wake up and cry when it thundered. So I went into their room and laid down at the bottom of their bed so they could stop crying and sleep. I laid there for a couple of minutes and there was no thunder, so I got up and made it to their room doorway and it thundered, so I went back and laid down on their bed. I did this several times and each time I was not quite as far to their doorway when it thundered again. Until the last time. Now in between each time of trying to leave the room there was no thunder. Then the last time I had just begun to think in my head to get up and it thundered. It then occurred to me that God was trying to get my attention. So I said in my thoughts, God what are you trying to say to me. His response was not something I heard with my ears but it was an internal answer in my spirit. He said, "You want me to save your mom, then listen to me". That is when God became real. He's not just an "it" or "force" or "something" that I can manipulate. He's a real being. He's not a wooden idol that i can move from place to place. He's REAL. We don't use God, God uses us.

God is who He is and He's alive. That's when I found out that I needed to live for Him not against Him. No one and I MEAN NO ONE can tell me any different that He isn't real. And someday this faith that I have in Him will be turned to sight. I will actually be able to SEE GOD and TOUCH HIM. I went into my girl's room so that my presence could get them through their fear of thunder. God now has his presence with me so that I can get through my times of good and bad.

I know I've stated this before but I want to state it again. God is real. Look up real in a dictionary. It means verifiable, not imaginery. It also means being no less than what is stated.

My mom had both breasts removed and the cancer had not spread to her lymph nodes and she did not die of cancer.

Thanks for talking so honestly and openly about your faith, I find it remarkable and have great respect for you. Faith is obviously a powerful factor in your life. I know understand why you consider the word of God to be true, but my question is this:
What makes you believe that the words in the bible are the word of God? Is it just 'blind' faith or is it a genuine feeling that God has given you these words and expects you to follow them; and if this is the case what angle do you take on people like me saying hang on, these words have been corrupted throughout history and numerous translations? I mean really what do you think about the significance of things like the council of nicaea in your understanding of the bible being the literal word of God.

I must thankyou again for talking so openly, I think it is very brave to talk so openly and I have great respect for it. I really want to understand.

To take a Holy Book literaly, is just to read it as you would any novel.
To read a Holy Book and come to a spiritual understanding, is to come closer to God.
The way I see it, no one can teach it to you, you have to experiance it for yourself.

This is true of most Holy books, be it THe Bible, Koran, Toura et-al.

"One who goes off smiteing people or choping heads, misses point."

to catholics the bible is not ment to be taken literaly and on the other hand christians do take the bible literaly

Originally posted by racos
Has anyone ever considered that the bible is mearly one of the longest surviving book of stories in the world ? maybe there is some truth in the bible but maybe it is fictional....just an idea though

Actually, it isn't. We have much older stories and books of stories than that, including some of the Egyptian mterial and the Sumerian Enumma Elish...


And, 1Gov -- Catholics ARE Christians.

[edit on 24-10-2004 by Byrd]

Originally posted by LadyV
There's no possible way that it is....it was written by man and then re written and torn apart each time it didn't suit whomever was re writing it.

Your problem is the limitaions placed on God by your definition of God.
With your God it is not possible. With my definition of God it couldn't be any other way.

Hey BigDanPrice:

Which "god" are you referring to that has literal words to believe in, in the first place?

So many gods....so little time !!!!!!!!!!

Are you talking about that racist and outmoded god of the Old Testament---aka YHWH, the vicious xenophobic and inconsistent clan god of post-Exilic Israel?-----You know, the one who wakes up one day "and decided to meet Moses on the Road to kill him" for no apparent reason (hung over from all those Cannanite drink offerings?)

The same one who can't make up his mind about his name (Exod chapter 3 in the burning bush Myth) and who (for some strange reason I will never begin to understand) wants to genocide ALL (not just some of) the Amalekites and wants all the Girgu#es exterminated, or some other angry local nomadic desert clan-god of the Middle East with generations of crooked priestly scribes (with Lying Pens, as Jeremiah was fond of pointing out) who just hate it to pieces when the leaders go out and make bronze snake idols then put them on totem-poles, telling everyone that YHWH told them to do it, or whose own brother goes out of his way (and behind his back) to make golden bull-El gods out of spare earings, or when people just go out and eat bacon cheeseburgers or go pay a barber to cut their hair?

Please explain yourself a little in a little more detail if you would...and then you might get a plausible answer from the linguists among us, who know what a "text" is.......




[edit on 24-10-2004 by Amadeus]

I think I was pretty clear, I want to know what people find in the bible, old and new testament, that makes them believe it. What I have begun to find is that people find their faith and then approach the bible and interpret it from there.

It is obvious that God is reinterpreted in the new testament. Is it a different God? I am throwing the question out there but I would like to see it, for a change, in an environment where people can express their feelings without being shot down, I would like to see some logical argument to support faith and indeed a historlogical allegory interpretations.

Hope this answers your questions but any of your thoughts and/or feelings are welcome.

~``


....[size=16]In the beginning was the word...


~~~~~

Sorry, but to me all that follows is 'your' belief & faith....

enjoy & benefit in your choosen practices....


17:03 DST

Originally posted by Byrd

Originally posted by racos
Has anyone ever considered that the bible is mearly one of the longest surviving book of stories in the world ? maybe there is some truth in the bible but maybe it is fictional....just an idea though

Actually, it isn't. We have much older stories and books of stories than that, including some of the Egyptian mterial and the Sumerian Enumma Elish...

[edit on 24-10-2004 by Byrd]

I believe racos said it was one of the longest surviving. I'd say its pretty old considering its 2004. Those Sumerian documents you talk about are they in english? i'd be interested in reading them.

Which Bible?

Anybody who has a translated copy of the original unadulterated Hebrew or greek text, please contact me, the earliest translation I have found is from about 1500AD.

Until such time as we can ensure the integrity of the document, I believe the piont is moot...