First time gun owner here (shotgun), Ammo and Storage questions.

I can't afford a safe for my ammunition, so I tend to keep it hidden in the oven away from the kids. I keep the gun itself in a magazine rack: the kids are too young to read now, so they won't be looking in a magazine rack.

reply to post by winofiend


I will agree that it is not a wise decision to operate a firearm without any firearm experience. However, purchasing a firearm with no experience is not a problem. As long as the owner educates himself/herself in the firearms operation and general firearm safety before using the weapon.

There is a right way and a wrong way to use a tool. Firearms are a tool, whether you like them or not, and must be respected first and foremost.

I love guns, and I have a healthy respect for them. The fear of guns usually comes from a lack of experience with them. I don't fear them, however, I do fear some of the crazies that get their hands on them.

reply to post by madenusa


while you may be right about the op, who knows,
but if the op is serious, they will seek training
and get the experinece safley they need.

But if your notion that someone standing in my house
after we are in bed and the doors are locked is murder,
well so be it, i see it is a threat to my family, while my
kids are skilled in using guns, i dont trust them to have
the ability if said intruder would have a gun and i took the
time to wait to find out.

I'd take my chances any day with a jury and see what happens
sure beats the heck out of taking the chance they are there to
make a phone call and end up with 4 coffin's.

The intruder knew the risk's when they broke into the house..
or at least should know.

although i have to fully disagree with your last statement.
there are many times lethal force would be justified.

Originally posted by lambs to lions
reply to post by severdsoul

 

I won't lose my tactical advantage trying to estimate their intentions for being in my home.

No justification using lethal force.
Sad but true happens everyday trigger happy, you shoot, they live, you get sued...
They Die you have to show least amount of force possible...
Where I live i wont use 911 they take to long they sometimes call back,lol
Im just trying to help the OP that never had a Gun...
we dont lock our doors,no street lights, if the Dogs dont know you your a intruder..

reply to post by madenusa


I live in Oklahoma, if they are in my home...I can shoot them. It is called the 'castle law'

Castle Law, Section 2/B

"The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred."

Your best bet is to go back to where you purchased the shotgun and ask your questions there unless it was a department store then go to a gunshop. They will be able to point you in the right direction for the training you need. You wont need weeks and weeks of training in order to be able to operate your shotgun safely but a few hours with a competent trainer will begin to turn your purchase from a liability to an investment in security.

reply to post by lambs to lions


Same here. It has been challenged a few times but
so far it still stands.

reply to post by winofiend


Well according to your reasoning...
No one should operate anything without knowledge.
Wanna use that can opener? Can't buy it unless you know how to use it!
Of course that maybe how things work in a Eutopia.
I'm not saying I am against that way of thinking...

But in todays world, that's not reasonable and this person already bought the gun.
How is someone supposed to learn without friends or family to help?
They'd have to buy a gun, and learn themselves...and ask questions online.
Which is exactly what this poster did.

Which is why we should all be giving good advice...to help a newcomer.
We shouldn't be telling others how we think buying a gun is a bad idea.
Or posting our own opinions on how people should or shouldn't acquire one...
Which is off-topic anyways.

Originally posted by Bisman
I recently got myself a 12g 870 express. its the 18 inch, tactical model.
from what i understand its smooth type barrel.

its brand new ordered because im to gun-dumb to trust my used shopping.
so i am yet to buy a case or ammo.
this gun is just a home defense gun, and the bulk of it's life will be spent in the closet unused (i hope)

I wanted to start here as this is my usual heavy-read on the net. before i would be googling around.

1) i dont know anything about ammo picking, or ammo storage
2) i dont know anything about how often to clean, do you detail-clean a gun thats not in use over time?
3) i intend to B-in, but if in a B-out situation, how does one take guns with himself? (i live in minnesota). the conceal and/or carry laws confuse me to no end. its like they are purposely vague.

thanks in advance, in case im not posting till tomorrow evening. (its late here)

If you're not a skilled shotgun operator, you're the weakest link in your last-ditch home defense weapon system.
You will walk into a room the shotgun will lead the way the intruder has the advantage to grab the barrel and use your own Tool against you...
I suggest you give some serious thought to attending a one or two day "defensive shotgun" training course from a reputable shooting school
For personal defense and law enforcement applications, the International Wound Ballistics Association advocates number 1 buckshot as being superior to all other buckshot sizes.
If you're worried that a missed shot might penetrate through a wall and harm others, load your shotgun so that the first one or two cartridges to be fired is number 6 or smaller birdshot, followed by standard lead #1 buckshot.

Last & final advice dont pont a gun at the bad guy unless you plan on useing it.

First of all:

This is NOT a political forum. The rules for posting here are pretty clear. Secondly, if you don't want to offer HELP to the OP, please don't think it wise to discuss the OP personally. That isn't the topic and such is covered in the T & C.

Forum Rules:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

T & C

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Hey, OP:

Somewhere in your area, you will find a range that offers training. Probably more than one.

Go there. Find out what they've got, and start with the basics courses. Learn basic weapon handling, they'll be happy to sit down with you and teach you how to maintain your shotgun. If they've got a shotgun range, they'll have some training courses on how to fire it.

I sort of absorbed all the basics by osmosis - I got my first rifle at 8 - but I'd been watching and learning before that.

When we made the decision to arm the secretaries at work (don't ask), most of them had never fired a weapon. We decided against training them ourselves and bought them several months of training. They're pretty good. But at first, they were friggin' dangerous in a BAD way. Until you develop the correct behavioral habits, you'll likely be dangerous too.

I recall having to really work at being able to point a weapon at a person. It gets to be a reflex NOT to over the years, doing it on purpose is sort of like un-toilet training yourself.

Training will help.

Two hours with a friendly shooter will help.

Videos and websites will help. There are good youtube videos on PROPER technique.

There is a world of difference between proper technique and improper technique. One will handle recoil comfortably, be easy to hold on an assailant for long periods, and allow accurate and rapid shots. The other will be unpleasant in every possible way, and dangerous in most.

Things to remember:

Shotgun ammo comes not just in different types and sizes but different lengths and power as well.

12 gauge is a diameter specification. Figure out the maximum length of shell your shotgun can accomodate and stay within that.

For self-defense, lower power and shorter shells are better. Tactical buckshot is low-recoil 9-shot 2-3/4-inch (shell length) 00-buckshot ("double ought buck"; don't confuse with 00 birdshot). It doesn't have much recoil, so it's accurate and followup shots are easy, but it's still amply powerful against humans.

Light birdshot and target shot is good for practice. It's cheaper than anything and has little recoil. Read ammo boxes very carefully and don't be afraid to ask very specific questions about things you don't understand.

The difference between a heavy-recoiling shell and a light-recoiling shell is often just one tiny word or number on the carton. If someone tells you to use heavy recoiling, high power, or magnum shells for self defense, THEY ARE TALKING OUT THEIR ASS. Even moderate hunting ammo is too high powered for self-defense; it is unnecessary and hampers accuracy and follow-up shots.

If someone tells you to use birdshot for self defense, THEY ARE TALKING OUT THEIR ASS.

Learn the safety rules.

Learn the safety rules.

Learn the safety rules.

Get it yet?

Learn the safety rules.

Every great shooter will respect you if you are safe, no matter how slow, sloppy, or inaccurate you are.

And every great shooter will have contempt for you if you are UNsafe, no matter how fast, smooth, or accurate you are.

BE SAFE FIRST, LAST, AND ALWAYS.

Never play with a gun when it might be loaded.

With that in mind, develop a manual of arms for your shotgun. Unload it completely. Verify that it is unloaded four times in a row, if not more. Then dry fire it if necessary to unlock the pump, but do not operate the pump. Now load the magazine. Store in that condition with the safety off, pointed in a safe direction and secured against bumps or children or whatever. Remember that a fire can cook off the ammo in the magazine.

When you need to shoot someone or something, grab the shotgun, pump once to load a shell into the chamber, and you're ready to go.

Do not leave the weapon chambered.

Do not leave the action locked as if it thinks it is chambered.

Do not leave the safety on since there's no point and you'll forget to take it off.

These are my preferences, yours may vary.

More notes:

Smooth barrels are perfect for shot and certain types of slugs. They suck for slugs designed for rifled barrels.

Rifled barrels suck for shot and certain types of slugs.

You probably have a fairly open choke, which is fine. Learn what that means, though.

If people visit your house, you should secure your shotgun in a safe or cabinet, or at least keep it in a locked room. KIDS WILL FIND IT NO MATTER HOW WELL HIDDEN. You must use locks in that case.

Safes and cases both collect moisture. Moisture leads to rust. If you keep it in a case, leave the case partially open to vent moisture. No matter what, check the gun periodically for rust or spiderwebs or other problems.

Don't accessorize immediately. Learn the weapon.

When you want accessories, I recommend a sidesaddle for extra ammo, an extended magazine if you don't already have one, a mounted weaponlight that can handle shotgun recoil, and night sights or a tritium bead or an illuminated optic. A sling can come in handy or get in the way.

reply to post by winofiend


Well at least he had the sense to ask the questions before such a thing took place.

I am with you as I believe most people should at least take a safety class before purchasing a firearm although many don't. To be honest I think it should be mandatory for purchasing a firearm.

However, with that said, I believe he can still learn to safely handle his new firearm and he is here asking some important questions.

Originally posted by Bisman
I recently got myself a 12g 870 express. its the 18 inch, tactical model.
from what i understand its smooth type barrel.

its brand new ordered because im to gun-dumb to trust my used shopping.
so i am yet to buy a case or ammo.
this gun is just a home defense gun, and the bulk of it's life will be spent in the closet unused (i hope)

I wanted to start here as this is my usual heavy-read on the net. before i would be googling around.

1) i dont know anything about ammo picking, or ammo storage
2) i dont know anything about how often to clean, do you detail-clean a gun thats not in use over time?
3) i intend to B-in, but if in a B-out situation, how does one take guns with himself? (i live in minnesota). the conceal and/or carry laws confuse me to no end. its like they are purposely vague.

thanks in advance, in case im not posting till tomorrow evening. (its late here)

Call a local shooting range and see if they have someone who could teach you shotgunning basics. You picked a great weapon, but like any piece of equipment, you have to get proper training to use it safely and have fun doing it.

I could try to explain things like shot size, low brass, high brass, shell length, chokes, ect but it wouldn't even come close to being any substitute for hands on experience under the supervision of a professional.

The good news about owning an 870 is that it can be used for many things besides self defense. If you got a normal length barrel with the appropriate choke, you could shoot skeet or clay, or use it for hunting.

Get some instruction, give us some feed back, and ask any questions you still have.

Originally posted by Merriman Weir
I can't afford a safe for my ammunition, so I tend to keep it hidden in the oven away from the kids. I keep the gun itself in a magazine rack: the kids are too young to read now, so they won't be looking in a magazine rack.

You keep the ammo in the oven. Talk about a accident waiting to happen. Buy a surplus ammo can like I did you can lock them and they have a o'ring seal.



Sometimes I have to wonder what the heck people are thinking. These are not toys they are lethal weapons treat them as such.



Never....never....never.....store ammo in the oven.

Originally posted by madenusa

Originally posted by lambs to lions
reply to post by severdsoul

 

I won't lose my tactical advantage trying to estimate their intentions for being in my home.

No justification using lethal force.
Sad but true happens everyday trigger happy, you shoot, they live, you get sued...
They Die you have to show least amount of force possible...
Where I live i wont use 911 they take to long they sometimes call back,lol
Im just trying to help the OP that never had a Gun...
we dont lock our doors,no street lights, if the Dogs dont know you your a intruder..

edit on 8-12-2012 by madenusa because: ...

The only time you should use lethal force is when life is at risk. Property of any kind is not worth a life. Even the life of a criminal.

1st and most important, Always, ALWAYS treat a gun as if it's loaded. Even if you watched someone unload a gun, check it yourself. Go to your local range, if there is one, and ask for lessons or someone to give instructions.
Read the manual that came with it. That will give instructions on cleaning when needed.
Store it where you can get to it, but high enough that kids can't get to it.
As soon as you are comfortable and knowledgeable about it, teach your family. Kids are curious and if you don't teach them how dangerous it is, they're gonna look for themselves.
If you feel they're too curious, lock it up during the day and get it out only after their bedtime.
If it's a pump, don't keep a round in the chamber. It only takes a second to chamber a round if needed and that sound alone can be extremely intimidating.
Enjoy your new gun.

As far as ammo, there is a large selection for home defense. Personally, I use 00 buck, which means that the shell is loaded with fewer but much larger shot than a normal 12ga shell. www.google.com... =1309&bih=704

Originally posted by Bisman
I recently got myself a 12g 870 express. its the 18 inch, tactical model.
from what i understand its smooth type barrel.

its brand new ordered because im to gun-dumb to trust my used shopping.
so i am yet to buy a case or ammo.
this gun is just a home defense gun, and the bulk of it's life will be spent in the closet unused (i hope)

I wanted to start here as this is my usual heavy-read on the net. before i would be googling around.

1) i dont know anything about ammo picking, or ammo storage
2) i dont know anything about how often to clean, do you detail-clean a gun thats not in use over time?
3) i intend to B-in, but if in a B-out situation, how does one take guns with himself? (i live in minnesota). the conceal and/or carry laws confuse me to no end. its like they are purposely vague.

thanks in advance, in case im not posting till tomorrow evening. (its late here)

Something I posted in another thread:

THESE ARE THE 4 RULES; THEY WORK EVERY TIME
1 Treat all guns as if they are loaded. People are shot with supposedly unload guns?
2 Never let the muzzle of a gun point at anything you do not want to destroy, hit or kill. refer to rule one
3 Keep your finger straight and off the trigger. Never put you finger on the trigger until ready to shoot.
4 Be absolutely sure of your target, and what is behind it. Cops in N.Y. who shot many bystanders need a refresher course on rule 4.
I will add a #5 thought: Dead is a forever deal. Once a bullet leaves the muzzle, you can't bring it back even though there is usually a lawyer attached to it.

[QUOTE] Look at our police departments accuracy when they have to shoot a suspect. In new York cops shot something like 9 citizens shooting at a suspect. [END QUOTE]

Refer to rule 4...Also to be honest with you many people who have a CHL shoot much more than any N.Y. LEO with the possible exception of their SWAT team and even then I have my doubts. One of my neighborhood cops shoots one a year for qualification and practices a couple of days before the qual....And the ammo is free..I am sure you will agree not everyone takes a job or responsibility as serious as they should.

You are a gun owner now and with that comes a certain amount of responsibility. There have been a few good suggestions in the thread already. Youtube will probably have a vid on field stripping or cleaning your particular weapon. Sometimes a picture is worth a 1000 words?

It would be so much better if you can join up with someone like a skeet shooter or bird hunter and have them show you the proper form when shooting a shotgun; it will save your shoulder and make it much more effective. Home defense=slugs or buckshot mixed usually according to many pros who study such things...Not the same ammo or appropriate in apartments..

Congratulations on purchasing a really good firearm. Also there are many good firearm specific forums on the Internet which might give you a contact in your local area. Whatever you decide, take the owning and care your new purchase serious. Again congrats

Originally posted by Merriman Weir
I can't afford a safe for my ammunition, so I tend to keep it hidden in the oven away from the kids. I keep the gun itself in a magazine rack: the kids are too young to read now, so they won't be looking in a magazine rack.

Please take this with a grain of salt but if you can afford a firearm and ammunition you should at the very least be able to afford a $40 fire safe for the ammo. They're much more secure than an oven and you don't have to worry about someone else preheating your oven and blasting a hole through the side of it! In all seriousness ough the rounds aren't likely to go off even under heat but you could definitely degrade the gun powder in them from improper storage and potential contaminant from outside items like grease,oil etc.

Originally posted by winofiend
reply to post by havok

 

Contrary to popular opinion, I was actually quite serious.

The idea really astonishes me. It's a wonder there is a single stupid person in the US. They, by law of averages, should have all shot themselves.

"I don't know how to use it, but I'll buy myself a weapon that can kill people with the motion of a single finger."

It screams insanity to me. Lets all jump out of planes without parachutes - we'll pick one up on the way.

On that line of thought, it astonishes me when parents give little snowflake baby boy or girl a several ton loaded weapon with a big bow at 16 yrs old.. a sports car.. a wagon.. whatever. They kill more than firearms and I dont see anyone whining about it. Ive seen by far more horrific things with my own eyes concerning cars than some guys whopping 12 gauge shotgun he bought for home protection. Most of these guys never fire off a shot unless its at the range.. and arent hunters.. YET. A shotgun doesnt require a rocket science degree to operate... or any degree of real skill when youre confronting an intruder.. hence their being the perfect home defense weapon. He came here to ask questions. Good for him.



OP
I own a mossberg 500 pump. I have various types of shells for various reasons.. but I use light loads so they dont penetrate walls as readily as heavy loads. It makes a difference depending in what sort of wall material you have, if you are in an apartment or duplex, etc. If you eventually use it for bird hunting.. there are specific ammo types. I personally salivate over fresh pheasant.. use a light 7/8-ounce or one-ounce load . All loads/shells are not created equal. You came to the right place for advise.. but you should go to the range as another poster suggested to get the feel of it. Different loads will feel differently as well when you pull the trigger.