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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by adjensen
He said the "ONLY" sign they would get was the sign of Jonah. The Pharisees had already seen a miraculous sign before so why say "only" instead of "last"? He knew they had already seen miracles by him so why use the words "only"? It doesn't fit in with the story before that instance.
I said Peter was born in a Roman province, that of Bethsaida. Whether he was a Roman or not is up for debate, then again I think Peter and Paul were actually the same person. Peter/Paul was the trojan horse sent in by the Romans in my opinion.
Saul/Paul, Simon/Peter, both jailed in Mamertine prison, both founded the RCC together, etc. Also, the last pope is supposed to be called Peter the Roman and he's supposedly the antichrist. Matthew 20:16 comes to mind here. Peter is considered the first pope, Peter the antichrist is supposed to be last. Coincidence? Maybe.
Is it just a coincidence that Peter wasn't reinstated until after Jesus' supposed resurrection? You know, the time after he was supposed to have died and should have been dead? I don't think so.
So Romans replacing Saturnalia with CHRISTmas isn't evidence of their intervention?
The evidence that Romans wrote part of the bible is in Paul's epistles. You just admitted that Paul was a Roman earlier.
There's no proof that Peter was a Roman but Paul was for a fact. Whether you acknowledge the FACT that Paul was a Roman is completely up to you though. First you said there was no evidence that Romans had anything to do with the bible, then when I mention Paul you start backtracking and becoming an apologist giving excuses. That's the way I see it.
I never said Peter the Roman was proof, all I said was that it was an interesting coincidence, ignore it if you want. But you're right, who cares about him? He wasn't around when Jesus died was he? Oh wait, neither was Paul, but you still take his word as the word of god.
No, according to John the reinstatement only happened after the crucifixion. The reinstatement is located in John 21, the crucifixion is located in John 19. So yes, he was reinstated only after he supposedly came back to life.
So the Romans had nothing to do with Saturnalia, it was the church! It makes so much sense because it's not like the church was called the ROMAN Catholic Church or run by Romans or anything, right?
The term Roman Catholic appeared in the English language at the beginning of the 17th century, to differentiate specific groups of Christians in communion with the Pope from others; comparable terms in other languages already existed. It has continued to be widely used in the English language ever since, although its usage has changed over the centuries. (Source)
I care about was Paul's citizenship was, sorry that you choose to ignore it. Funny how Paul kept his citizenship throughout the whole time he was spreading Jesus' message isn't it? You'd think Rome would take such a traitors citizenship away, but nope, I guess he was too important to them, huh?
Deuteronomy 29: 2 Moses called to all Israel, and said to them, You have seen all that Yahweh did before your eyes in the land of Egypt to Pharaoh, and to all his servants, and to all his land; 3 the great trials which your eyes saw, the signs, and those great wonders: 4 but Yahweh has not given you a heart to know, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, to this day. 5 I have led you forty years in the wilderness: your clothes have not grown old on you, and your shoes have not grown old on your feet. 6 You have not eaten bread, neither have you drunk wine or strong drink; that you may know that I am Yahweh your God.
Menahem, son of Judah of Galilee
Reed claims that Menahem is one of the worst False Messiahs.[10] Menahem was the son of Judas of Galilee according to some authors and historians. He followed the belief of his father that no man could rule, because God was the true ruler.[10] Menahem…obtained weapons from Masada and came to Jerusalem to try to establish some kind of reign.[4] Menahem had a band of devoted cutthroats with him and overpowered those who preferred peaceful Roman rule. Menahem marched into Jerusalem dressed in finery. He entered the temple, killed the high priest, committed all sorts of abominations and was killed by an angry mob.[10]
John of Gischala
The second false messiah is John of Gischala.[10] The man was so violent that anyone who even considered peace with Rome was a traitor. He had thousands killed. He tried to take royal authority in Jerusalem and betrayed his own people in the process.[4] He too entered the temple and killed the high priest. 8,500 people died on the temple grounds the day John took the temple. He appointed a mockery of a high priest, was arrested by Romans in 70 CE and spent the remainder of his life in prison.[10]
Zealotry in Jewish history
Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Jesus didn't meet Peter until he was a grown man, how can you say he didn't grow up to be a Roman loyalist?
A logical thinking person would see that as a HUGE red flag.
How could Paul's writings not be the word of god? Aren't his writings in the Holy Bible, the one true word of god? If Paul's words aren't those of god then how is he in the bible? The fact you accept his teachings goes to show you believe he was inspired by god.
It's actually really simple, Peter wasn't reinstated until AFTER Jesus rose from the dead. You say he was reinstated the night before his death which is not correct. Read John 19 then John 21 and tell me which comes first, the crucifixion or Peter's reinstatement?
It doesn't matter when English started calling it anything because either way it was a church set up by the Romans.
People had the ability to lose their Roman citizenship back then, look it up yourself. The question remains, why would Rome not take Paul's citizenship away after defecting to the other side? Maybe because they were using him?
And if you're going to try and make a case for the Romans inventing Christianity, you'll need a better founder than Constantine
Joseph Atwill's, Caesar’s Messiah: The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus
The controversial thesis of this book is that Christianity began as the opium of the Jewish people, mixed and prescribed for them by the crafty Flavian dynasty. Vespasian, Titus, and Domitian had had their fill of militant Zealotry and Sicariism. ...And so Titus Caesar, with the help of his obedient lackey Josephus, devised a master deception whereby Jews should be seduced into worshipping Titus, divine son of the divine Vespasian, without knowing it, under the guise of a fictitious Jesus, divine son of a divine Father. The gospels were composed by Romans (and Roman stooges including defeated Zealot leader John of Gischala AKA John son of Zebedee) to catechize Jews into this new and false Judaism which, if they accepted it, should also lull them into a soporific pacifism convenient for Rome ... in a cover blurb, Robert Eisenman (a sometime colleague of author Atwill, one hastens to add, on other endeavors) remarks, “If what Joseph Atwill is saying is only partially true, we are looking into the abyss.”
. . .
Eisenman, in his monumental work James the Brother of Jesus, was able to show, from an altogether new perspective, how thoroughly pro-Roman is New Testament faith. Compared with the religion of nationalistic Jewish Christianity it must have seemed the foulest betrayal, an overnight devolution of the faith of a messiah who stormed the temple, condemning its Roman lapdog rulers, into a religion advocating obedience to Caesar, paying him his denarius, and accepting Quisling tax collectors as brothers in the faith
Matthew 19:17
"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments."
Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
In my opinion "salvation" (if you want to call it that) comes from works. Like Jesus said:
Matthew 19:17
"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments."
Works are what matter, Jesus never said anything different. If everyone has faith but no works Earth is what you get, a place full of greed, lies, war, etc. Faith does nothing but keep people ignorant in my opinion.
Of course, Paul's teaching of salvation and the consequences of not having faith scared people into believing it because who wants to suffer and burn forever? Constantine saw that paganism was failing so he went ahead and legalized Christianity, but not before putting pagan themes into the story to make the transition easier for others of the pagan religion at the time. Constantine didn't legalize Christianity because he wanted to do something good, he legalized it to keep political power over the growing Christian religion.
Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by adjensen
I think we're already in heaven. The conditions on Earth are perfect for life and the universe is most likely abundant with life, everything relies on everything to exist. The universe is the epitome of perfection and complexity, something only heaven and god can be.
What happens when you have faith but not works? You get the lake of fire mentioned in Revelation. The lake of fire is here on Earth and this is what you get without works, you get Satan's playground, where he gets whatever he wants by lying to the masses. Paul's writings are the work of Satan (Peter), a.k.a. man, not god. In my opinion.
Difficult how? It's not like the common people back then had the kind of access to information we do now plus a large part of the population back then was illiterate and couldn't read. Those who were already well off were the ones who could afford the education needed in order to read, so I don't see it being that big of a hurdle to make for them.
The First Council of Nicaea is when they added the themes in my opinion. Did you know that in the 12 years after legalizing the "truth" , Constanine never converted up until he was on his death bed? And his death bed conversion is even in question. You would think that a man who knew he was legalizing "truth" would convert at the same time of legalizing it, but no, he waited a whole 12 years afterward if even at all.