FedEx airplane guy documents Chemtrail sprayers CLOSE CALLS

reply to post by Tecumte

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about lol, no offense but what we need to realize is that Owning the Weather is real. Stop playing games. It's here and it's now. You guys are entertaining but ineffective. Add something usefull. We're waitrng.

I think you have the whole thing backwards. You and others claiming the contrails are changing the weather on a global scale are the ones who have the burden of proof...again, the tiniest shred of evidence will suffice. Erin Brockovich will take the case, PDQ. You do something useful, rather than perpetuate unfounded, dishonest claptrap.

Originally posted by Tardacus
It`s strange how some of the trails abruptly stop and then start again while the trail right next to it continues without any breaks in it.
why would the engines on the right side of the plane suddenly and abruptly stop creating condensation trails while the engines on the left side of the plane continuing creating condensation trails uninterupted. both sets of engines are traveling at the same altitude,through the same air density etc but only one set of engines create an uninterupted trail?
most curious is why the condensation from one set of engines doesn`t just tapper off or or create a thinner trail, it abruptly stops completely temporarily and then resumes again a few seconds later.

I live about mid point between KC Mo and St. Louis and about 125 miles form any large commericial airport. I have a wonderful unobstructed view of the sky miles and miles in all directions. Most days we usually have east west commercial flights flying over sporadically leaving only vapor trails. On occasion though and suddenly dozens and dozens of planes will start decending on this area like hornets, flying in x's and o's and right at each other, for several hours, putting out these huge smokey looking trails that COMPLETELY white out the sky in a matter of hours and then these planes all suddenly leave and the usual east west sporadic traffic continues leaving only quickly disapating vapor trails. Whatever these planes are spewing out is so radically different in appearance from the vapor trails being left by the more usual east west traffic and their flight patterns so radically different, it is as different as night and day. The apologists use the tired mantra that the only difference is the altitude between planes. After having watched these operations for years I am confident this doesn't explain the differences and in fact I am simply witnessing intentional cloud creation for weather modification using the many methods presented in patents and white papers readily available. I realize this debate will not be solved until someone like Carnicom or G. Edward Griffin (What in The World are They Spraying) or some other concerned group comes up with the money to start actually doing air sampling at altitude. This I think will be the only way to conclusively PROVE these weather modification programs are ongoing on a regular basis and this is the area that those interested in this must pursue. Otherwise, anything short of this can always be discounted by the usual crowd and the usual plausible deniability.

Originally posted by prevenge
reply to post by Zaphod58

 

you should just go back to studying the you tube video for the rest of the day and zoom in and use contrast in photoshop after you still frame it and get your evidence.

see you in a couple days.

you are missing the goddamn point.
they're spraying crazy @#% dude.. are you high on something??

and it's a very very interesting phenomenon to discuss.

edit on 12/1/2012 by prevenge because: (no reason given)

WHAT?!!!

What are they spraying? What chemical is it? Who are they trying to spray?

You seem to think you have the answers, here, share them with the rest of us.

reply to post by Tecumte


OK, you cant answer my question, that's fair enough but you could have just said so instead of ignoring me. I'll let it lie now, but don't you think that huge gap in the sources that have built your belief needs to be acknowledged?

Regarding what you wrote in this post, you are sure that what you are seeing is spraying. Well how about the possibility that the air traffic is constant all the time due to the schedules airlines operate to, but sometimes the weather changes and trails persist. Then it changes back again and they don't anymore, until next time, resulting in less visible evidence of their constant presence. Why is that so ridiculous?

Originally posted by waynos
reply to post by Tecumte

 

OK, you cant answer my question, that's fair enough but you could have just said so instead of ignoring me. I'll let it lie now, but don't you think that huge gap in the sources that have built your belief needs to be acknowledged?

Regarding what you wrote in this post, you are sure that what you are seeing is spraying. Well how about the possibility that the air traffic is constant all the time due to the schedules airlines operate to, but sometimes the weather changes and trails persist. Then it changes back again and they don't anymore, until next time, resulting in less visible evidence of their constant presence. Why is that so ridiculous?

edit on 2-12-2012 by waynos because: (no reason given)

Actually I'm trying to waste as little time as possible responding to any baiting, obfuscation or trolling, I've already posted plenty of links regarding weather mod. (most all ignored) and shared a couple of personal observations. If you want to talk about any of the specific methods or even add some useful ideas concerning weather mod. feel free.

Originally posted by Tecumte
...The apologists use the tired mantra that the only difference is the altitude between planes.

No. Another thing that may affect the characteristics of trails is the condition of the atmosphere in which the planes are -- conditions that change throughout the day, even at a given altitude.

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People

Originally posted by Tecumte
...The apologists use the tired mantra that the only difference is the altitude between planes.

No. Another thing that may affect the characteristics of trails is the condition of the atmosphere in which the planes are -- conditions that change throughout the day, even at a given altitude.

yes likely, but another thing that may affect the characteristics of the trails...

Weather modification has been ongoing for decades in the United States. It was perfected during the Vietnam War leading to the ENMOD Treaty signed by the United States. However, this has not stopped a whole host of weather modification programs and experiments being initiated or are now ongoing in the United States and with increasing frequency in many foreign countries.
The profound impact of these ever-increasing and highly sophisticated weather experiments and programs are radically changing our climate and local weather conditions in many areas. Your local weathermen are not reporting these events leading many to believe that some man-made weather is either extreme or unusual…thus, the public is unaware of many of these programs.

These exponentially growing programs have no government or public oversight, limited oversight in a very few states which allow them, and no government or public oversight or consent for the rest of them. These programs change the climate, the micro-climates needed for watersheds, negatively impact tree health, and agriculture crop production. NOAA lists some of these programs but most are not listed due to their experimental nature, military classification, university experiments, and failures to notify NOAA by various states, counties, cities, weather modification companies, and private individuals and corporations who may all modifying your weather.

rezn8d.net...

reply to post by Tecumte

Actually I'm trying to waste as little time as possible responding to any baiting, obfuscation or trolling

What an utterly ridiculous response. I acknowledged the evidence you talked about and even noted my interest in GE subjects, but had one specific point that I asked you to clarify as a means of joining the dots. WHY do you consider my question trolling, is it because its too hard?

It has been demonstrated by other members on here before that the typical tactic of the faith based believer, when faced with questions they cant answer, is to 'prove chemtrails are real', or at least avoiding having to question whether or not they are actually wrong, by ignoring them or attacking the motives or character of the 'opponent'. Well done, you just lived up the stereotype.

Well I guess that response shows how weak your evidence is. And that last link? Seriously dude, I've been clicking through it for the last few minutes, what a crock.

Originally posted by totallackey

Originally posted by tinhattribunal
reply to post by totallackey

 

dude!
there's like a dozen threads and thousands of posts by zaphrod, unicus, tammy jo, aloynious and their like minded friends showing old smoking planes from the '30's and '40's which they try to pass off proof that all chemtrails are contrails.

unicus even runs his own personal [bs] website showing the same.

they really make the chemtrail and geoenginering area of ats look like a total joke.

most members here feel bad for new members who don't get that and try to start a thread thinking they are going to communicate with other concerned and informed posters.

instead they are harrassed and usually called names by the above.

then the mods show up and run off the people as they defend them selves !

and with that , i'm otta here

You have any evidence to back up any of this?

obviously you are new to this area of the ats forum.

welcome !

many of the threads here are quite content rich, with links, vids, old magazine clippings ...

and if they were researched in depth they often are found to hold a 'piece of the puzzle' for the pro-chemtrail side to verify their claims ... even though they are [often] supplied by un-believers!

yes, i would like to thank both 'sides' for their contributions here as they generally lead to an increased awareness of a multitude of things on many topics ... not just the chem/contrail issue discsussion here.

however when it comes to providing some degree of proof that would change someone's opinion, i don't see it happening in this area of ats, and that applies to either side's argument.

for now, i'm going back to watch the op's vid. i liked it the first time, it made a good opener.
then maybe some more posting here, it's looking like a decent thread!

Originally posted by tinhattribunal
and if they were researched in depth they often are found to hold a 'piece of the puzzle' for the pro-chemtrail side to verify their claims ... even though they are [often] supplied by un-believers!

It's quite amazing how after all these years of the chemtrail theory any neophyte is still told to "do your own research" and piece together the evidence from bits and pieces of old forum posts.

I mean, why don't you just write it down? Make a list of all the evidence that has not been debunked?

reply to post by tinhattribunal


feel free to answer that question I asked Tecumte if you feel able to when you reach it. I would genuinely like to know the answer to it, despite what Tecumte wants to think, because its one thing that's puzzled me ever since I found this forum.

reply to post by Uncinus


Here it is;















ciao

Originally posted by waynos
reply to post by Tecumte

 

Actually I'm trying to waste as little time as possible responding to any baiting, obfuscation or trolling

What an utterly ridiculous response. I acknowledged the evidence you talked about and even noted my interest in GE subjects, but had one specific point that I asked you to clarify as a means of joining the dots. WHY do you consider my question trolling, is it because its too hard?

It has been demonstrated by other members on here before that the typical tactic of the faith based believer, when faced with questions they cant answer, is to 'prove chemtrails are real', or at least avoiding having to question whether or not they are actually wrong, by ignoring them or attacking the motives or character of the 'opponent'. Well done, you just lived up the stereotype.

Well I guess that response shows how weak your evidence is. And that last link? Seriously dude, I've been clicking through it for the last few minutes, what a crock.

edit on 2-12-2012 by waynos because: (no reason given)

No, I disagree I think it was a very appropriate response, you didn't acknowledge anything specifically only the usual general dismissing and downplaying. So sticking directly to what I was talking about what in these two paragraphs do you disagree with specifically? I listed dozens of these programs which are admitted to and obviously the more sensitive ones are not going to be advertised. people are simply witnessing many of these programs in operation.

Weather modification has been ongoing for decades in the United States. It was perfected during the Vietnam War leading to the ENMOD Treaty signed by the United States. However, this has not stopped a whole host of weather modification programs and experiments being initiated or are now ongoing in the United States and with increasing frequency in many foreign countries.
The profound impact of these ever-increasing and highly sophisticated weather experiments and programs are radically changing our climate and local weather conditions in many areas. Your local weathermen are not reporting these events leading many to believe that some man-made weather is either extreme or unusual…thus, the public is unaware of many of these programs.

These exponentially growing programs have no government or public oversight, limited oversight in a very few states which allow them, and no government or public oversight or consent for the rest of them. These programs change the climate, the micro-climates needed for watersheds, negatively impact tree health, and agriculture crop production. NOAA lists some of these programs but most are not listed due to their experimental nature, military classification, university experiments, and failures to notify NOAA by various states, counties, cities, weather modification companies, and private individuals and corporations who may all modifying your weather.

Originally posted by Drunkenparrot

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by tinhattribunal

 

No I didn't. I said that persistent contrails were around in WWII, but I never said there were more of them, except from the sheer number of aircraft used in bombing raids. There are more of them now because of the high bypass turbofan.

Here you go. All formed by supercharged, reciprocating type internal combustion engines...

yah! that's the stuff i was talkin' about !!

those guy's [and girl] go postin' that garbage all over this place !

that was from70 years ago!

allied planes all used carburated engines [nazi's- bosch fuel injection].

carburators have big problems running well when altitude changes [such as driving an old car from sea level to a mountain area].

the planes had to be 'rigged' upped to be able to fly any mission at altitude, hence all the smoke in the photos!!

and somehow this is supposed to convince someone that what they are seeing in the present is not happening !

they will tell you that the govenment [military] confirmed these were normal contrails when a little research [very little] will confirm that what i said above is true.

they are just repeating quotes from some government 'disinformation' document from the '90's.

oh yah! i gotta go watch that video again.
toodles!

I hope the moderators will allow this long list. I wanted to show the immensity of these weather mod projects and I felt this was the very best way to do it. Remember these are likely just a FEW of the programs, ones that are admittted to (or partially). To claim that this isn't affecting the weather, the cloud structure and isn't being noticed my millions worldwide is ludicrous.

Weather Modification Projects

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Weather Modification, Inc. Projects
Clients & Projects
Antigua Antigua Cloud Seeding Project
Argentina Province of Mendoza Ministry of Economy
Australia Queensland Environmental Protection Agency
Burkina Faso Program SAAGA
Canada Alberta Hail Suppression Project
British Colombia Ministry of Forest
British Columbia Hydro and Power Authority
Saskatchewan National Hydrology Research Agency
Greece Greek National Hail Suppression Program (ELGA)
Hellenic Navy Supply Center
India Andhra Pradesh Rainfall Enhancement Project
Prakalpa Varsha – Maharashtra Rainfall Enhancement Project
Project Varuna – Karnataka Rainfall Enhancement Project
Indonesia BPPT Weather Modification Program
Jordan Arab Automated Systems
Heshamite Kingdom of Jordan
Mali Programme Sanji – Mali
Mexico Precipitation for Augmentation of Rain in Coahuila (PARC)
Morocco Programme Al-Ghait
Saudi Arabia Program for Cloud Physics Research and Rain Enhancement in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia
World Meteorological Organization in cooperation with SAU/WMO/FIT Rain Enhancement Project
Senegal Republique du Senegal – Ministry of Armed Forces
Spain Canary Islands – AIRAO Incorporated
Thailand Bureau of Royal Rainmaking and Agricultural Aviation (BRRAA)
Turkey ISKI Rain Enhancement Program
Petkim Petrokimya Holding, A.S. Rain Enhancement Program
United Arab Emirates U.A.E. Rain Enhancement Program
U.A.E. Rainfall Enhancement and Air Chemistry Studies – DWRS
United States Aeromet, Inc. (L-3 Communications) – U.S Department of Defense
BAMEX – Bow Echo and Mesoscale Convective Vortex Experiment
CALIPSO – CloudSat Validation Experiment
Delaware Department of Agriculture Cloud Seeding Program
Edwards Aquifer Authority
Federal Aviation Administration – Great Lakes Division
Gratiot Weather Modification Project
Illinois Weather Modification Projects
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA)
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration – National Hurricane Center
Naval Surface Warfare Center
Nevada State Cloud Seeding Program
New Mexico BLAST (Burst Light and Stratus Transmission) Project
North Dakota Cloud Modification Project (NDCMP)
North Dakota Thunderstorm Project – North Dakota Atmospheric Resource Board
North Dakota Tracer Experiment – North Dakota Atmospheric Resource Board
Northeast Sampling Program – Sonoma Technology, Inc.
NSF/NCAR ICE-L Field Campaign
Oklahoma Weather Modification Project (OWMP)
Panhandle Groundwater Conservation District Rainfall Enhancement Program
Santa Barbara County Water Agency
Sonoma Technology, Inc.
Stanislaus Weather Modification Program
State of South Dakota – Department of Natural Resources Division of Weather Modification
Texas Central High Plains Rainfall Enhancement Program
Texas Experiment in Augmenting Rainfall through Cloud Seeding (TEXARC)
Texas Weather Modification Program
The University of North Dakota – US Environmental Protection Agency
University of Arizona – National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA)
Upper American River Cloud Seeding Project
Upper Payette River Basin Cloud Seeding Program
Upper Tuolumne River Weather Modification Program
Utah Division of Water Resources
Utah Division of Water Resources
West Central Texas Council of Governments Rainfall Enhancement Program
Western Dakota Water Development District – Black Hills Council of Local Government
Wyoming Weather Modification Pilot Program

rezn8d.net...

reply to post by tinhattribunal

allied planes all used carburated engines [nazi's- bosch fuel injection].

Well then how does that change the moisture coming from the exhaust?

carburators have big problems running well when altitude changes [such as driving an old car from sea level to a mountain area].

And mechanics know how to adjust for altitude changes.

the planes had to be 'rigged' upped to be able to fly any mission at altitude, hence all the smoke in the photos!!

And just how did they rig up these planes?

As for the smoke, well it is nothing more than contrails.

reply to post by Tecumte


Those are clouds seeding projects. They spray stuff INTO cloud to try to make them rain more.

It's does from small planes at low altitudes, and does not leave contrails.

It does not make contrails any more likely, as any silver iodide in ice-supersaturated air would immediately nucleate ice crystals and precipitate out. Not that it's actually sprayed at that altitude.

reply to post by Tecumte


Your link that you provided takes me to a video that is entitled "The Weather Modification and Geoengineering Industry Exposed." In the video, the maker claims :
1) that "What in the World are they Spraying," and "Why in the World are They Spraying," do not go far enough;
2) Mentions Rosalind Peterson, who admits, ""In 10 years of research, other than aluminum coated fibreglass, chaff releases by the US military, I have no proof whatsoever that the jets are releasing anything but jet fuel emissions"
3) Redirects to this site and related sub links. From here we clearly see the words: "Potentially," "Anticipated," "Should be." Further, we see the following snippet under Weather Modification Companies: Kansas Water Office - "...spent $156,000 on weather modification projects...despite the fact...no scientific evidence that it works."
In fact, the site owner posts these marvelous tidbits from science!

"It should be realised that the energy involved in weather systems is so large that it is impossible to create cloud systems that rain, alter wind patterns to bring water vapour into a region, or completely eliminate severe weather phenomena. Weather Modification technologies that claim to achieve such large scale or dramatic effects do not have a sound scientific basis (e.g. hail canons, ionization methods) and should be treated with suspicion" "Purposeful augmentation of precipitation, reduction of hail damage, dispersion of fog and other types of cloud and storm modifications by cloud seeding are developing technologies which are still striving to achieve a sound scientific foundation."

So, in short, please post some scientific data that clearly demonstrate the weather is being modified on a global scale as a result of jet contrails. If not, you are dismissed.

reply to post by Tecumte

Weather Modification, Inc. Projects
Clients & Projects
Antigua Antigua Cloud Seeding Project
Argentina Province of Mendoza Ministry of Economy
Australia Queensland Environmental Protection Agency
Burkina Faso Program SAAGA
Canada Alberta Hail Suppression Project
British Colombia Ministry of Forest
British Columbia Hydro and Power Authority
Saskatchewan National Hydrology Research Agency
Greece Greek National Hail Suppression Program (ELGA)
Hellenic Navy Supply Center
India Andhra Pradesh Rainfall Enhancement Project
Prakalpa Varsha – Maharashtra Rainfall Enhancement Project
Project Varuna – Karnataka Rainfall Enhancement Project
Indonesia BPPT Weather Modification Program
Jordan Arab Automated Systems
Heshamite Kingdom of Jordan
Mali Programme Sanji – Mali
Mexico Precipitation for Augmentation of Rain in Coahuila (PARC)
Morocco Programme Al-Ghait
Saudi Arabia Program for Cloud Physics Research and Rain Enhancement in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia
World Meteorological Organization in cooperation with SAU/WMO/FIT Rain Enhancement Project
Senegal Republique du Senegal – Ministry of Armed Forces
Spain Canary Islands – AIRAO Incorporated
Thailand Bureau of Royal Rainmaking and Agricultural Aviation (BRRAA)
Turkey ISKI Rain Enhancement Program
Petkim Petrokimya Holding, A.S. Rain Enhancement Program
United Arab Emirates U.A.E. Rain Enhancement Program
U.A.E. Rainfall Enhancement and Air Chemistry Studies – DWRS
United States Aeromet, Inc. (L-3 Communications) – U.S Department of Defense
BAMEX – Bow Echo and Mesoscale Convective Vortex Experiment
CALIPSO – CloudSat Validation Experiment
Delaware Department of Agriculture Cloud Seeding Program
Edwards Aquifer Authority
Federal Aviation Administration – Great Lakes Division
Gratiot Weather Modification Project
Illinois Weather Modification Projects
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA)
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration – National Hurricane Center
Naval Surface Warfare Center
Nevada State Cloud Seeding Program
New Mexico BLAST (Burst Light and Stratus Transmission) Project
North Dakota Cloud Modification Project (NDCMP)
North Dakota Thunderstorm Project – North Dakota Atmospheric Resource Board
North Dakota Tracer Experiment – North Dakota Atmospheric Resource Board
Northeast Sampling Program – Sonoma Technology, Inc.
NSF/NCAR ICE-L Field Campaign
Oklahoma Weather Modification Project (OWMP)
Panhandle Groundwater Conservation District Rainfall Enhancement Program
Santa Barbara County Water Agency
Sonoma Technology, Inc.
Stanislaus Weather Modification Program
State of South Dakota – Department of Natural Resources Division of Weather Modification
Texas Central High Plains Rainfall Enhancement Program
Texas Experiment in Augmenting Rainfall through Cloud Seeding (TEXARC)
Texas Weather Modification Program
The University of North Dakota – US Environmental Protection Agency
University of Arizona – National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA)
Upper American River Cloud Seeding Project
Upper Payette River Basin Cloud Seeding Program
Upper Tuolumne River Weather Modification Program
Utah Division of Water Resources
Utah Division of Water Resources
West Central Texas Council of Governments Rainfall Enhancement Program
Western Dakota Water Development District – Black Hills Council of Local Government
Wyoming Weather Modification Pilot Program

I am wondering if you noticed a few things about your list?

Interesting that the majority of this list has to do with cloud seeding and precipitation projects which have been going on for 60 yrs or more...

Sorry, but nothing on this list has anything to do with chemtrails.

reply to post by Tecumte


Well, if we are talking again and you accept I'm not just here to troll the board.

It is actually simply a statement on a chemtrail site quoted from another chemtrail site (I followed the links back). My problem is that they issue statements like that and there is nothing supportive to go with it. When Uncinus links back to contrail science, which carries explanations with supporting links it gets called trash on here, even though nobody has yet shown one single factual error. But stuff like this is just accepted as the unvarnished truth by believers - I do not get that at all as I see it as very contradictory behaviour.

For example, who says weather modification was ever 'perfected'? And if it was why are there 'experiments' carried out today on this perfect process? That reads as contradictory to me also. Every single piece of evidence I have read related to GE and weather modification (that isnt about cloud seeding) talks of theories and proposals. So where is all the evidence that isnt?

If aircraft contrails are indeed mass chemtrail operations, why are small scale experiments even an issue at all? Surely they are only a sideshow? Do you see the contradiction in just the very first part?

What are the programs that have no oversight? How do we know they are there? There is already legislation that covers weather modification etc so what are these other things?

It is simply a statement about actions and repercussions that asks you to believe it without ever showing you why you should. Hopefully you notice that I am not saying it is all a lie (even though I suspect that to be the case), I am asking why it should be believed?

Also, you may remember that my original question was about what it is in the first place that means that the contrails that persist and spread in the sky are a manifestation of this threat?

It is my own experience that the only people that believe this to be true also demonstrate a lack of knowledge about aviation and the atmosphere and this story provides a quick and easy-to-grasp explanation for the long thick trails in the sky, and some other people have taken advantage of this.

Not only have I recognised fallacies in the chemtrail argument myself, but every single person I have ever known or conversed with that has a first hand knowledge of aviation, and with it, out of necessity, an understanding of the upper atmosphere, thinks that chemtrails are utter twaddle.

Now, you see, for me that DOES NOT dismiss the threat of uncontrolled GE operations, it just convinces me that people that call contrails 'spraying' are wasting their time and energy and looking the wrong way and so I find myself locked in a seemingly futile attempt to try to shine a light on this, only to be called a shill or a troll for my efforts.

So, whether you agree with me or not, I hope you can at least see that my motives are as genuine as anyone's could be.