Detecting the Soul.

Originally posted by Hijinx
reply to post by Wertdagf

 

I can't help but wonder what it is you do for a living. You proclaim so much as definitive fact, and obviously aren't open to learning, imagination or creativity.

Albert Einstein, one of the worlds greatest minds proclaimed he would be nothing with out imagination and wonder.

You just seem so angry, and so sure of yourself. What is it that drives you to be this way? Everyone has dreams, fantasies, curiosity, you seem so empty in your words. I'm really not trying to be insulting, I'm observing and my curiosity has the better of me now.

Einstein what a mind that seeker had . He seem to be spot on when it came to Quantum entanglement and his quotes about god are very insightful. I have a feeling he really understood god/reality. Like listening to Buddha or Jesus.

Like an onion life has many layers, we live in life and life lives in us, see the life to see the soul.

I am the creator of te beliefs which define the illusions within my reality, I am not what is, I am what could be, I am the source of infinite possibilitys, I am life as its self, the motionless force behind motion, I am the act of nothing in something which is the source of everything, I am all that I feel around me therefore I am you and together we are....
One who creates his own illusions and makes them more real than reality, follows the path of the spirit and finds the way of heaven.

When people ask what happened at the beginning of time, i say "nothing" love the confusion of being trapped in the illusion.

Originally posted by Oannes
Kirlian photography basically shows the Soul. The aura is the energy given off from our light bodies.

An aura is not the soul - it may be evidence of the soul (living person), but it is not the soul itself. People need to distinguish clearly between spirit, body, and soul. Spirit (breath of life) + body = soul. It's that simple.

Originally posted by maryhinge
i had sage once before it was taboo its what indians put in their pipes
(of the cow boys and indians type)

I thought they smoked tobacco through those peace pipes

Originally posted by Xaphan

Originally posted by maryhinge
i had sage once before it was taboo its what indians put in their pipes
(of the cow boys and indians type)

I thought they smoked tobacco through those peace pipes

They smoked a variety of herbs. Why would they use only tobacco?
2nd

Originally posted by LittleByLittle

Originally posted by Hijinx
reply to post by Wertdagf

 

I can't help but wonder what it is you do for a living. You proclaim so much as definitive fact, and obviously aren't open to learning, imagination or creativity.

Albert Einstein, one of the worlds greatest minds proclaimed he would be nothing with out imagination and wonder.

You just seem so angry, and so sure of yourself. What is it that drives you to be this way? Everyone has dreams, fantasies, curiosity, you seem so empty in your words. I'm really not trying to be insulting, I'm observing and my curiosity has the better of me now.

Einstein what a mind that seeker had

. He seem to be spot on when it came to Quantum entanglement and his quotes about god are very insightful. I have a feeling he really understood god/reality. Like listening to Buddha or Jesus.

I absolutely agree. Einstein was brilliant and years ahead of his time.

Originally posted by life12
Like an onion life has many layers, we live in life and life lives in us, see the life to see the soul.

I am the creator of te beliefs which define the illusions within my reality, I am not what is, I am what could be, I am the source of infinite possibilitys, I am life as its self, the motionless force behind motion, I am the act of nothing in something which is the source of everything, I am all that I feel around me therefore I am you and together we are....
One who creates his own illusions and makes them more real than reality, follows the path of the spirit and finds the way of heaven.

When people ask what happened at the beginning of time, i say "nothing"

love the confusion of being trapped in the illusion.

Very Deep, so is the consciousness the soul, or merely a component of the soul? I understand many believe consciousness is the whole, body, soul, mind, the universe and some science experiments seem to express the importance of the observer in what we define as the world. My personal beliefs seem to be based in science, as I am aware all matter in the universe is energy, and energy can not be destroyed only transformed. So in that we are all eternal, I'm just curious if it is possible to identify " The soul." Whether it be consciousness or an energy we can measure leaving the body, if it does in fact reside with in the body.

Originally posted by LittleByLittle

Originally posted by PurpleVortex

Originally posted by Hijinx
reply to post by PurpleVortex

 

I would love to be the man who definitively proves it's existence. On the other hand I don't know I would enjoy disproving it as much. A remarkable discovery either way, but I Imagine a huge portion of the religious world would call me the anti-christ or attempt to burn me for proving it to not exist. Imagine all the religious world having to grasp all their loved ones are gone for good, and there is no heaven or hell. It would be utter chaos. It's far too much for them to grasp.

No need to prove anything to anyone, especially the ideas of spirituality/religion...We will all find out in time.

OP. You can always try to prove it for yourself with chakra meditation. If you get an changed body then it will be hard for you dissbeliving there is not something more.

See, I'm torn. I've gone back and forth through my life. As I said earlier, in my younger years I didn't believe in anything outside the physical world. We are alive, we die that's it. Ghosts, spirits, magic was hullabaloo, and I enjoyed scientific reasoning for the seemingly paranormal. At 20 years of age I experienced what one would describe as a haunting. I thought I had lost my mind, because it absolutely shattered my beliefs at the time. I sought out doctors, counselors, and when I was not satisfied with what they were saying. I saw psychics, and even then that didn't leave me quite satisfied. Never the less it left me with an open mind to the possibility there is more in life. I've always been artistic, and enjoyed fantasizing so logically I can not express complete ignorance to the possibility having experienced something I can not explain.

I thought it was impossible, and my youthful ignorance had been proven wrong. I realized perhaps I am cutting myself short in my quest to understand the universe I'm so lucky to be a part of. Since then I've done lots of deep thinking. With a universe so large no human now, or in the existence of our species will be able to see or know all that is. A Universe infinitely large, must as well be full of infinite possibilities. Who am I or anyone else to say definitively what is or isn't with out being able to witness and learn from that.

I've seen others say how dare I proclaim proof is needed to believe in something, but this isn't the case with me. Just because I believe, does not make something true, as well just because I don't believe does not make it untrue. I simply enjoy satisfying both sides of my mind. The Dreamer, and the intellectual.

So alas, this thread. A deep thought experiment and perhaps the precursor to something much more.

Thank you for participating.

Originally posted by AkumaStreak
reply to post by Hijinx

 

Duplicate someone in a replicator, down to every atom, across the room.

See if clone is:

1) Unique new instance of the individual with same memories/personality (a fork of the individual going forward).

2) Duplicate body/brain tuned into the same metaphysical "mind" (soul) at unknown location.

3) Unconscious pile of meat and bones, indicating something beyond our biology that gives us our "spark".

4) Something else.

edit on 11/29/2012 by AkumaStreak because: (no reason given)

I think this could be interesting to do, but we do cloning with animals. They are in essence the same down to ever genome in their bodies. How ever they don't necessarily act, behave, exactly the same. I believe this is because every individual is composed partly of their genes and their experiences. Clone A, is mature, may or may not have been with those doing the experiment their whole life. Maybe enjoyed eating clover because it was the prevalent food in it's pasture. Clone B enjoys eating oats, because it was it's choice food out of the oats, corn and barley it was presented while with the group performing the scientist. Is this evidence of an entirely new personality, or a result of opportunity due to conditioning of life experience?

Cloning is a rather strange subject, and when we come down to the idea of a soul just because two lives appear identical in every regard does not mean the soul with in must be the same. Identical twins appear outwardly identical, how ever quite often are nothing alike. They were born of the same genetics, same egg, same sperm, and were created absolutely equal yet they are not alike in personality and preferences. This has been another question of mine regarding the "soul." At what time does the soul enter the body? Is it present before the creation of the life? The same time? Does it enter the life vessel after creation? As well, is the soul responsible for any of a being, or is it rather the blank disk on which all life's experiences, memories, and the beings traits are saved? Perhaps, the soul itself is merely the energy with in us, that powers the vehicle so to speak.

What exactly is the soul?

Originally posted by new_here

Originally posted by Hijinx
reply to post by The GUT

 

Could this not be attributed to gas loss through the lungs? Our lungs contain gas which has weight, when you let our your last breath, you would in theory weigh less than while your lungs were full would you not?

Wiki has a bunch of volumes ranging from an average of 6 liter total capacity, and then a whole bunch of factors.

Average inspiratory volume in (healthy)men is 3.3 liters 1.9 in healthy women.
Tidal volume .5 liters in men .5 liters in women.
Expiratory reserve volume in men 1 in men 0.7 in women
residual volume 1.2 in men 1.1 in women

Soooooo if you die and you let out your breath, would you not weigh less? This doesn't necessarily mean our souls have weight. As gas could be attributed to these weights. Including anything expelled from our lungs that was in our breath.

For some reason your post made me wonder...
Does the electrical field of a living body attract any sort of surrounding particles to the body that would raise the weight of the living person, but disperse from the body when the electro-chemical functions cease at death?

Well, see I'm not entirely sure. I can try to give you my thoughts on it, and I will try to look into it more because I'm interested as well. This is a really good question, regarding the soul, but I don't know if it would explain the weight loss.

The "Electrical" impulses are responsible for controlling all processes with in the body, so when the impulses stop so do all the processes they control. As far as them causing a loss in weight, it would depend on how you look at it. In my example I said after death we exhale gas in our lungs, this would happen because the impulses controlling the muscles stopped, and the gas would naturally release do to the weight of the tissue collapsing. It may not be the case definitively but it is a theory.

Other cellular interactions could be our blood, releasing gasses, our bladders/bowels emptying(although this would be easy to spot for the experiment previously mentioned). Our bodies Decompose quite rapidly, so it could even be the beginning processes of the bacteria in our bodies beginning to break us down to simple proteins, water, and gas.

Certainly interesting and I will be looking into this. Thank you for your contribution.

Originally posted by brandiwine14
Very neat topic, I would be interested in knowing where you go with this.
What if they are on their death bed because their soul has already left their body? Strange thought I know but I think that most of us are so scared of death that we would jump out of our bodies before death actually consumed us (at least that's what I hope). I watched someone take their last breath but I remember thinking she was already gone, that it was just a body a shell I was looking at. So eventhough bodies can live hooked up to monitors for a very long time i'm not necessarily sure that the soul stays in it for the whole duration. The soul might already be out, wandering around looking at the whole picture. That saying "wandering souls" was coined for a reason. I think the place to start would be with people who have mastered the how to's of astral projection. Maybe try and find those people because I believe they would be closest to being on the same plane as the detached soul of those who have just died since their soul is detached as well.

edit on 29-11-2012 by brandiwine14 because: needed to clarify a point

See this as well is one of those areas that would make such an experiment difficult. Before we can begin trying to detect a soul, we must know what it is, and where it resides. I've heard and read all sorts of information, testimonial, stories about consciousness, the soul, and the spirit. I've heard it proposed they all are with in our bodies, as well as others about our consciousness existing in and around us, interacting on a different level with the world around us as well as in us.

I've heard many say, when people are on their death beds it seems they have already moved on, free from pain and their last moments. I've heard this described with individuals in a coma as well, but I've read some remarkable findings regarding consciousness in severely brain damaged patients doctors have thought could not be conscious. So I'm torn, what defines the soul?

I've always been curious about OBE's. From about 20-23 I had a whole number of very strange life changing experiences, which have changed my thoughts and peaked my interest in these subjects. I said in previous post I experienced a haunting, as well suffered from sleep paralysis. Which lead me to believe perhaps the experiences were nothing more, but perhaps they were? It's very confusing, and I had an attack where I opened my eyes and was looking down on myself. I bounced back and forth between it being hallucinations due to being in a state of sleep paralysis as well as perhaps I was out of body. Both are terrifying as they were out of my control.

I'm trying to remain unbiased and just look for some answers. I'm open to what ever I can find, and I really appreciate everyone's opinion on the matter.


Note: I have 7 other replies open and waiting. I'm just running down to the store, and will be back shortly to get to everyone else. I'm not picking or choosing and will reply to everyone in time. Thank you all for your participation.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Hijinx

 

but I Imagine a huge portion of the religious world would call me the anti-christ or attempt to burn me for proving it to not exist. Imagine all the religious world having to grasp all their loved ones are gone for good, and there is no heaven or hell. It would be utter chaos. It's far too much for them to grasp.

I gotta say, I find it pitiful if people spend that much time worrying about the afterlife when they still have so much life left to live. After all, we can't really know for a fact - so why bother worrying? Just be a good person, love the people you care about, don't be afraid to dance for no reason, try to catch all the rain drops you can, and remember that if you only live once...MAKE IT WORTHWHILE.

Death is one of the things in life you can count on no matter what, so why worry about it? Live while you can.

While I agree the only thing certain in life, is death I don't think it wrong for people to worry about the afterlife, or the lack of an afterlife. It's the ultimate question for all of us. What happens after death? Is there something? Is there nothing? What is that last moment like? I've read plenty of material explaining the hormones that are released in our final moments, providing comfort and bliss, but no one can no what it's really like. The closet we have are what is known as a Near Death Experience. Near death, so beyond that it remains unknown.

I agree, we should not spend all our time worrying or wondering about these things, but I believe it is perfectly healthy to do so as long as it does not consume you.

I agree 100% with making life worthwhile and living it to the best of your ability. All religions teach this, and our moral recognition of right and wrong helps guide those of us who are not religious in the same manner. We are all here to experience, no matter if you are of faith or not. Life is about the experience, so live it.

Originally posted by maryhinge
reply to post by Hijinx

 

i had sage once before it was taboo its what indians put in their pipes
(of the cow boys and indians type)
and i swear i felt my soul it was so fantastic and scary at the same time
now i know why they called it the peace pipe

anyway thats how i detected/believed in my soul
when you think about it maybe thats why they killed off
many of the indians and their way to live of the land

edit on 29/11/2012 by maryhinge because: (no reason given)

Okay, don't get me wrong here, because there is evidence to suggest the effects of certain herbs and drugs heighten our senses, but is it also possible the Herbs created a hallucination or sensation you interpreted as your soul? I personally have a hard time taking anything anyone says about spirits, souls, paranormal while using a substance to achieve that ability. How do you know you are not just high out of your mind? Not saying you were in this instance, but I hear stories all the time of people taking powerful hallucinogens and claiming they experienced god.

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
I have posted on this topic before. I suppose I just need to keep it on my hard drive so I can post it over and over.

It starts with the Book of Genesis. God made man, breathed into the lifeless body the Breath of Life, and man became a living soul.

There you have it. People have been searching for the "soul" for centuries, but it turns out that you don't have a soul - you ARE a soul. Solved.

.......... really? Faith, I know is a powerful thing, but I can't follow the If you believe it its' true, if you don't you're going to hell mentality. A lot of religions are beautiful and wonderful, in some regards, but many have contradictions and holes that EXTREME believers abuse. As well, many holy texts have been diluted, rewritten, translated over and over. The message is beautiful, how true the word is to god, I don't know. I'm not overly religious, I don't necessarily believe in god as others have written him. I believe we came from a source of energy, that energy is in all of us and everything. What you call it, that's up to you. What it is, I don't know, nor do I know I ever will. Do I believe in a soul, I don't know, depends on what " The soul" is supposed to be. I'm curious to find that out how ever.

Your faith is yours, and I do not wish to challenge it. If the answer you have provided satisfies you, I'm happy for you but for me it is not an answer. It's a proclamation. Thank you for your input, I do value it but unfortunately religion does not provide answers for my needs.

Thank you again, and I do appreciate it. I'm sorry if I came off raw or rude, It truly is not my intention.

Originally posted by scotsdavy1
That's what I love about this forum, anything that is put up always a attracts an argument from someone like flies around a light bulb, regardless of content. Never fails ......

Well, I really shouldn't be surprised, or so against it. All sides are equal in a discussion, and I'm trying now to be not quite so harsh to those who want to argue. I'm going to get them to explain their sides, and give them a chance as well. Everyone has an equal voice, I know I was acting differently earlier but I've had a realization both sides are equally important in my quest.

Originally posted by NiNjABackflip
Many people think they have a soul; this we must agree on. So perhaps rather than dismissing the theory altogether, as so far we have discovered nothing tangible we can call the soul, maybe we can speculate on why people think this?
We know when the body dies, all energy seeps into the immediate environment. That energy, or whatever keeps the body alive, may be a likely candidate for what we call the soul.
When someone dies, we can visualize and imagine them still existing perhaps in another plane of some sort, but truth be told, only an image of that someone exists within our thought, and could have easily been deified in more ancient times as proof of an afterlife. Maybe the memory is the soul?
The ego or the personality, is still merely what one remembers about himself, but also how that memory is applied expressively and outwardly. It is how one wants to be remembered. Perhaps this costume or way of dress is what we call the soul?
If there is a soul, it must also include and extend to the surface of the entire body, for without the body, its skin, its tissue, its organs, its nervous system, its skeletal system etc. we wouldn't be able to conceive of anything, let alone the possibility of souls. Could the body be our soul?
Is it our inward and outward expression? Could it be our instinct? Could it be our intuition or intellect? There's many likely candidates. The theory does not have to be dismissed.

Thank you, you've provided plenty of deep thoughts there. I like how you changed the thought there entirely. Perhaps the body is the soul. I mean it's often said with in religion that the soul will return to the source, and depending on what you believe critically. We are of the Earth, in life we are born on the earth, we live off the earth, the earth lives in us and when we die we return to the earth and become a part of it.

I suppose it's not what some hold it to be, but it is an explanation or thought all in it's own. This may not be what you were saying, but it's immediately where my mind wandered.

I also like your idea the soul is memory. I've heard it said many times" His/her soul will live on in the hearts of many." This would seem to suggest, exactly that. Our soles are the results of our lives, and the live on in the hearts of many. This could lend credence to the idea of heaven and hell. If you lived a good life you will be remembered fondly by all those you touched in life. If you were a bad individual you would forever live on in memory of the terrible things you did in life.

Interesting thoughts, I don't know if what I replied with is the area you were headed but it's brought some interesting thoughts in identifying what perhaps the soul is.

Originally posted by PrimeLight
reply to post by Hijinx

 

The soul could be anything, and seeing as we are unaware of it's Scientific existence at this time, where would we begin?

You may find this article useful to your research.
www.news.com.au...

edit on 29-11-2012 by PrimeLight because: (no reason given)

Very interesting indeed, so I suppose we've deducted the soul is our consciousness at this time. Would our consciousness, memories, experiences be retained when they exit the body? The article seems to base this theory around the idea our brain is a biological computer, with in which the consciousness exists. So when it leaves the body, does it retain it's capabilities as in life?

Interesting indeed, and I wish the article went in to further detail. I will be looking into this further for sure.

Originally posted by 1littlewolf
reply to post by Wertdagf

 

I'm actually a big fan of the concise and efficient way your posts drive straight into the issue at hand, along with the dark humour which sometimes accompanies them…

…although I disagree with just about everything you say.

We live in a universe where the fundamental building blocks of all matter are essentially energy, an energy which may or may not be a particle or a wave. A universe where these buildings blocks blink backwards and forwards in time, and can be in many places at once. A universe where these particular particles are shown to be responsive to the presence of human consciousness. Following this logic one can infer that human consciousness is not bound within the human body, and can in some way effect things beyond the confines of the body. We cannot even define exactly what ‘consciousness’ is, let alone where exactly within the brain it sits. If human consciousness is not bound within the body, it is not actually a great stretch of logic to assume that this consciousness does not require a body at all.

And…. after all this scientifically proven time travel and teleportation of the fundamental building blocks of everything within the known universe and proof that the presence of a human mind can actually affect these building blocks of the universe, I do not think that it is totally unreasonable that a little ‘magic’ may exist out there.

Science is edging ever closer to what the mystics of many belief systems have been saying for thousands of years. It is simply framed and presented using an entirely different vocabulary.

I agree with you in that all things in the universe are energy in different forms. I also agree science has made a number of break throughs that could lead to proof for many belief systems many years old.

Science has not definitively proven time travel or telaportation beyond the sub atomic level however. There are some remarkable qualities of particles in the sub atomic universe, some of which still only exist in theory, but outside of this we have no evidence and are no closer to proving it is possible or exists in the macroscopic world. This does not mean it can not happen how ever.

The experiments involving electrons as well as photons changing direction, between wave and particle based on the observer alone is absolutely fascinating stuff, and opens up entire new thoughts theories and wonders.

I've some how lost myself with this post, I'm really sorry. ha ha.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by Hijinx

 

Like the soul... your thread seems to not exist.

Maybe we should weigh this thread and see if its 21 grams lighter.

I love the irony of you posting that in the thread.

reply to post by Hijinx


You should read soul camera by mike hockney. Comes out december 21st