It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Are Police Stings A Corrupt Form of Power?

page: 1
0
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Oct, 22 2004 @ 12:22 PM
link   
How many times have you flipped the channel to Cops and seen them taking down criminal after criminal by duping them into a schemed sting...

I watched one show where they planted a Mercedes mountain bike by a gas station in a ghetto....then they went and hid - barely even a minute had gone by and someone was riding off on it...and of course, they knew this and were ready to take him in...But was a crime really committed?! I'm not sure what the law is here, but I don't think these people are serving time - probably just a slap on the wrist...but I still fail to see the point of all this...

Another example is the prostitution stings...men and women are likely to loose their jobs and family all b/c the cops want to tell the guy about a disease that he probably already knows about...Once again, I can see the benefit to a certain degree...but why?!

Purposefully setting up someone b/c they're vulnerable or the typical user is an exploitive means of using force and power to control what should be dealt with in fair time...These people are stupid enough and will get caught later down the road if they continue on their current track...what good does a little lesson do?! It's like giving an 18 year old a speeding ticket...two months later they'll be hauling ass down the roads again...

Your input?!


[edit on 10/22/2004 by EnronOutrunHomerun]



posted on Oct, 22 2004 @ 01:57 PM
link   
Would you be so happy if you left your Mountain bike whilst you were quickly buying something and was stolen
Would you be happy if your 6 yr old daughter started asking why there are so many women on the street corners talking to men and getting in there cars.

or if your member of your family was killed by a speeding 18yrs old.

The whole pointis to make people aware of there actions always have a positive or negative reaction.Maybe the people caught will learn this and others will get the message.
Or the govt just using its powers to make the world a worse place
for the wrong type of people in society.THE NONE THINKERS


[edit on 22-10-2004 by weirdo]



posted on Oct, 22 2004 @ 02:02 PM
link   
I think most of those cases don't even go to court.
Isn't it called entrapment?
Shouldn't cops be out there trying to keep crime from happening, not trying to provoke people into commiting crime?
I guess there's not enough real crime going on to keep them happy.
Gotta fill those jails up and keep that funding comming in!

BTW in the UK they are drawing up plans to allow entrapment.
Is entrapment allowed here in the US?

www.legalbrief.co.za...

[edit on 22/10/2004 by ANOK]



posted on Oct, 22 2004 @ 02:04 PM
link   

Originally posted by weirdo
Would you be so happy if you left your Mountain bike whilst you were quickly buying something.

I have a nice mountain bike...saved up for it for over a year....The day I ride it into what we here in Tallahassee call a ghetto is the day I've lost my mind...much less leave it unattended or unlocked....the idiot who stole it and got busted surely didn't deserve or earn the bike, but neither did he deserve to be set up...if it wasn't there, he wouldn't have stolen it and he wouldn't have spent a night in jail while we pay for his dinner and breakfast and release him, only to do the same thing the next day to a REAL victim...


Would you be happy if your 6 yr old daughter started asking why there are so many women on the street corners talking to men and getting in there cars.

Well - At 6, I don't think I'd be willing to explain what was going on...Once again, I'd also probably avoid driving on that side of town with my child (if I had one)...As a responsible adult, however, I would understand what's going on, and I would leave them be - it's their choice...I think it's wise to spread information about STDs, but to ruin someone's attempt at progress in life by arressting them for making a choice they may have even later regretted without the use of force seems useless to me...

[edit on 10/22/2004 by EnronOutrunHomerun]



posted on Oct, 22 2004 @ 02:12 PM
link   

Originally posted by weirdo
Or the govt just using its powers to make the world a worse place
for the wrong type of people in society.THE NONE THINKERS


Well - obviously I'm not saying that


I did point out and made it clear in my original post that it's not like I'm condoning the behavior for which they are catching these people doing - I'm not saying prostitution is great - let's go teach our kids how to do it!

I'm saying that the police seem to be overlly involved in catching people in the act of doing something that is not endangering others, but the "perp"...And once again, I admit that I CAN see that there is a slight benefit to this...but at the same time, these things would not have happened had they not interferred...chances are they would have went on and things would have resolved naturally...

Most of these people are not fit for society and will find a way to elminate themselves by natural selection...I realize that most cops are simply out to teach and help these people - but I would be willing to bet that less than 1% of them listen and react...is that 1% worth the time, the effort, the money, the residual harm it inflicts upon the person's record and life who is caught...?!

I dunno...that's why I'm interested in your opinions...but understand where I'm coming from first...

[edit on 10/22/2004 by EnronOutrunHomerun]



posted on Oct, 22 2004 @ 02:17 PM
link   

Originally posted by ANOK
I think most of those cases don't even go to court.
Isn't it called entrapment?
Shouldn't cops be out there trying to keep crime from happening, not trying to provoke people into commiting crime?
I guess there's not enough real crime going on to keep them happy.
Gotta fill those jails up and keep that funding comming in!

BTW in the UK they are drawing up plans to allow entrapment.
Is entrapment allowed here in the US?

www.legalbrief.co.za...

[edit on 22/10/2004 by ANOK]

Interesting....

I agree...it's like they're out hunting for adventure and crime so they can meet their quota...

I believe entrapment is not technically illegal in the US...I think that we presently use the same loophole as in the source you provided:


At present it is not expressly illegal for police to use entrapment provided they have overwhelming evidence of a specific crime from other sources before launching an operation.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong...

[edit on 10/22/2004 by EnronOutrunHomerun]



posted on Oct, 22 2004 @ 02:23 PM
link   
Check out this story, where cops gets promotions after going undercover and trying to incite the people to fight/yell back!! This kind of behavior is lucid. And to think this guy got a promotion!!!???

www.hwcn.org...

This was more than just a sting.



posted on Oct, 22 2004 @ 02:32 PM
link   

Originally posted by Tuatara
Check out this story, where cops gets promotions after going undercover and trying to incite the people to fight/yell back!! This kind of behavior is lucid. And to think this guy got a promotion!!!???

www.hwcn.org...

This was more than just a sting.

Wow! Nice find! People who say the mainstream media don't influence the masses would be greatly shocked to read that...



Using undercover police is one thing, but using undercover police to potentially instigate violence at an otherwise peaceful action is quite another.

I ask Leendertse if he was aware that undercover operations would include the head of intelligence posing as a protester and shouting "#ing pig"at police in the midst of a tense situation.

"Im not prepared to discuss that, as its currently before the courts," is the measured response.

"Is that behaviour acceptable to you, if it turns out to be the case?" I prod.

After a full eight second pause on the line Leendertse says he wont "go down that road."

"The bottom line is we were involved in police operations, we used police tactics in a specific operation and our goal was to insure that no one got hurt."

Beautiful...the guy is at a loss for words so he uses fear tactics to try and justify his actions....*sighs*



posted on Oct, 22 2004 @ 03:38 PM
link   
Its kinda hard to understand you want people who commit crimes to be punished yet you question the tactics.It is extremely difficult for law enforcement agencies to be in the right place at the right time.O.K some people may view entrapment as an unlawful and unfair method but everyday law abiding citizens will just walk passed the Mountain bike without thinking hey my kid would love that nobody obvious around so i`ll just help myself.You have to realise that the scam has to look authentic.If you left an old man lying injured in the street with bundels of dollars hang out the pockets that would look suspect.
As for Prostitution until the law has changed made it legal and regulated into a safe enviroment for all parties involved it is still a requirement of the law to punish people that break the law.
It may seem as if the law is heavy handedbut with crime increasing methods to control it need to be implemented.Entrapment is also used for serious crimes such as drug trafficing,arms deals,gangland crime etc etc etc.
If you are the victim of crime it is still upsetting and extremely frustrating no matter how small that appears to a third party.
I have dealt with an elderly lady who misplaced her hand bag,some kids took it and destroyed the worthless content which included the last photo of her husband.That caused the lady to suffer a heart attack a few days later a die.The kids were picked up on cctv they never set out to steal from the lady they just took the opertunity.They were around 17yrs old.people need to be re educated that there actions no matter how small to them can have an effect.



posted on Oct, 23 2004 @ 01:02 PM
link   
scenario: cops raid a drug house, imprison the owner/operator, arrest/scare everyone else, gather the "goods".... now, how much of that do you think ends up back on the street in a week?


So, to me, I see them doing "Stings" as a way of putting more money in their pockets... and also it is how they deal with drug-dealers who don't pay them a cut, or take care of them in general.



posted on Oct, 23 2004 @ 01:27 PM
link   
I have Zero compassion for someone who steals and gets caught, set up or not.

Ghoztface, on the drug raids I'd have to lay blame on Politics and the "drug war," not the Police that are made to enforce it. Unfortunately, in that case they are just puppets of the drug war politics whether they like it or not.



posted on Oct, 23 2004 @ 03:37 PM
link   
Many different states have different laws on what is entrapment. One example is in prostitution in some states in the under cover cop is wearing clothes that she woulf normally not wear it is entrapment. If she is wearing clothes that she would normally wear off duty then it is not entrapment. It gets very complex. Cops go to great lengths to not have their sting be legally entrapment because that kills your whole sting.

But really with stings if your using a bait car and you leave it somwhere anybody you steals it is going to steal another car if it wasnt that one. These are not people that wouldnt steal a car and just happen to do it this one time.

Or if im selling crack the people that come up to buy it are not people that said hey I never smoke crack but since you are selling it what the heck ill give it a try.



posted on Oct, 23 2004 @ 03:58 PM
link   
For the most part I don't like stings & think they're assisting in the creation of a crime. Though in some circumstances I understand in crime ridden areas. What amazes me on those cop shows is how many allow the cops to search their cars when they don't have too.

Here's a sting where a cop got busted.prostitution sting

[edit on 23-10-2004 by outsider]



posted on Oct, 23 2004 @ 05:13 PM
link   
Being in the law enforcement field I recently attended an ethics class and this was one of our class debate topics. The spoon fed, rationale behind stings is that if you set up a sting and people are caught in this sting the next time they attempt to do it they may hesitate or not do it all fearing it may be another sting. Now this is what they teach law enforcement officials. As for prostitution stings I do believe those do help in this town anyway because of a rising trend of robbery and murder of johns attempting to use their services. Legalizing and regulating it may help but I'm not seeing that happen anytime soon. As for vehicular theft or theft of bikes and other items, what someone else said earlier, the person caught doing it in the sting would have done it to anotherr if the bait wasn't there. The whole war on drugs I have always thought is a sham and should never have been prosecuted. Entrapment in most states is almost nearly impossible to prove anymore with the addition of obscure by-laws and ordinances that are put in to help law enforcement increae the visible number of interdictions to aid in procuring larger budgets...sad but true.


[edit on 23-10-2004 by Fastmover01]



posted on Oct, 23 2004 @ 10:14 PM
link   

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
But really with stings if your using a bait car and you leave it somwhere anybody you steals it is going to steal another car if it wasnt that one. These are not people that wouldnt steal a car and just happen to do it this one time.

Or if im selling crack the people that come up to buy it are not people that said hey I never smoke crack but since you are selling it what the heck ill give it a try.

You see - this is preciesly my point though....These people are going to do this whether it's a sting or not...one day they're going to get caught...and the penalities will be far worse when it's not a sting and the lesson they learn from it may be more likely to be perminant...

If they simply get slapped on the wrist for doing something wrong on the police's watch...what kind of signal does that send to them of the police presence and force?! Whereas if they get caught in the act without the bait, unless they have a good attorney, they're not going to get off so easy...

Things like road blocks, arms deals, or even drug busts I can deal with and understand - if you're stupid enough to get pulled into that business or situation by anyone then you're better off in jail overnight then anywhere else....


Originally posted by Fastmover01
Entrapment in most states is almost nearly impossible to prove anymore with the addition of obscure by-laws and ordinances that are put in to help law enforcement increae the visible number of interdictions to aid in procuring larger budgets...sad but true.


That's an interesting point....I can see why it would be true too....

I dunno - I can tell I'm not doing a good enough job defending my opinion, but all I can say is that it's a gut reaction for me....

I don't wanna see crime running rampant any more than the next person...but I don't think setting people up for crime, even if they would have committed otherwise, is a step forward, but a step back....it's using the same part of brain as a criminal uses...who can be sneaky than the other...who can outsmart the other...and it just seems too cocky a show of force....it's like an ubermensch mentality pumped up on steriods b/c they think the only result of their actions will be positive life changes for the victim and they'll learn their lesson, they'll change and society will be better b/c of it....I say that's complete BS.....IMHO

[edit on 10/23/2004 by EnronOutrunHomerun]



posted on Oct, 23 2004 @ 10:32 PM
link   

Originally posted by EnronOutrunHomerun

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
But really with stings if your using a bait car and you leave it somwhere anybody you steals it is going to steal another car if it wasnt that one. These are not people that wouldnt steal a car and just happen to do it this one time.

Or if im selling crack the people that come up to buy it are not people that said hey I never smoke crack but since you are selling it what the heck ill give it a try.

You see - this is preciesly my point though....These people are going to do this whether it's a sting or not...one day they're going to get caught...and the penalities will be far worse when it's not a sting and the lesson they learn from it may be more likely to be perminant...

If they simply get slapped on the wrist for doing something wrong on the police's watch...what kind of signal does that send to them of the police presence and force?! Whereas if they get caught in the act without the bait, unless they have a good attorney, they're not going to get off so easy...

Things like road blocks, arms deals, or even drug busts I can deal with and understand - if you're stupid enough to get pulled into that business or situation by anyone then you're better off in jail overnight then anywhere else....



People in armdeal and drug stings dont really get slaps on the wrist. People caught in drug sting if they have enough there are going to get alot of time.

The judges hands are pretty much tied 5 grams crack 5 Years
No parole,50 grams your getting 10 Years No parole at the least. Thanks to Federal Mandatory Minimums there is no slap on the wrist for drug stings.



[edit on 23-10-2004 by ShadowXIX]



posted on Oct, 23 2004 @ 11:22 PM
link   

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
People in armdeal and drug stings dont really get slaps on the wrist. People caught in drug sting if they have enough there are going to get alot of time.

The judges hands are pretty much tied 5 grams crack 5 Years
No parole,50 grams your getting 10 Years No parole at the least. Thanks to Federal Mandatory Minimums there is no slap on the wrist for drug stings.

Intersting...I had hunch that it wasn't treated with much difference...but as I stated earlier, I'm pretty unclear as to the repercussions of all types of stings...

BTW - I appreciate your unbias insider input Shadow
- I hope I'm not coming off as some liberal jerk...for the most part, I believe the law enforcement do an excellent job, espexially considering they risk their lives everday for our safety....but I just have certain concerns that relate to my own opinion on how certain things operate...

I have several friends who are cops...one of them used to smoke weed and says he'll start back when he quits - he's a great guy and committed to his job - but he busts people with pot and other drugs......Those types of personality/professional opinions and traits that cops have to battle are a weakness in the system and are also a positive factor on the flip-side, b/c it proves that people can make logical decisions and think for themselves and lead upstanding lives while being "less than perfect"...

I'm rambling...blah....
....I'l lay dormant for a bit now



posted on Oct, 23 2004 @ 11:24 PM
link   
well i look at it this way if you agree they would probably do the crime regardless would you want them to do it in a situation where the WILL get caught or MAY?



posted on Oct, 23 2004 @ 11:37 PM
link   

Originally posted by Fastmover01
well i look at it this way if you agree they would probably do the crime regardless would you want them to do it in a situation where the WILL get caught or MAY?

Well of course we all want "the bad guys" to be served their justice - If the gov't gets its way by installing cameras on every street corner in America and gives us ID cards, etc...then that just may become more of a reality....but at an extreme cost to your personal freedom and privacy....

And that, in essence, is what space they invade when they conduct stings...and in the BIG PICTURE...is this helping or hurting?!

You land the guy in jail who was going to pick up the prostitute...no one spreads AIDS tonight or does some drugs before they work for their money...but the wife of the guy finds out about what happened, leaves him and takes their child, the guys looses his job, he becomes homeless....does he deserve all of this b/c a cop wants to tell him what he thinks of his lifestyle?! Sure the guy doesn't deserve a good wife, kid or job...but does he deserve to loose it all for making a mistake at the wrong time and the wrong place b/c Jane Doe is really Officer Jane Doe?! This is my conflict...and although justice is being served, more injustice is being created....

It may be a bit dramatic of an example and maybe only happens to 1/1000 people who get busted....I dunno....at the end of the day...looking at the BIG PICTURE...I just don't see how the means justifies the end....it seems to me a primal means of tackling a primal issue....where is there grounds for forward movement?!



posted on Oct, 24 2004 @ 01:01 AM
link   
okay lets take that example and tweak it a tad bit...honestly that is the best case senario. Worst case the guy is robbed and shot by the prostitutes pimp. His family then has to learn how and why he di8ed and his kids grow up without a dad altogether. Look I am by no means justifying some of the ridiculous lenghts LEO's go to to cath minor perps. And yes alot of times it is outta boredom. However...k let me ask this the guy goes to his prostitute, does his business, and returns home. Now before I continue, if he is doing this he has no place in a marriage. Something is wrong with the marriage. Now lets say he contracts a nasty little bug and has sex with wifey before he gets it diagnosed. Low and behold that night she becomes pregnant...i will not proceed from here because I'm pretty sure you know where that ends. Now this is all hypothetical however, to you it may seem minor, but to the ones affected by it directly it isn't. when a cop saves someone's life it doesn't end at cathing a bullet or running into a burning building etc. Sometimes the smallest things that someone on the outside overlooks is the most life threatening thing the person on the inside can imagine. Back on to topic...should we have cameras installed all over the city to monitor the public. NO. It IS an invasion. However we all know by watching TV cameras 9times outta 10 do not deter these boneheads from doing nasty things. Honestly if it came down to it though, if I or a member of my family was harmed or robbed I would be grateful if they had it on camera and could identify the individual. I know I am sounding like a hypocrit but hey we all are when it comes to us and our loved ones.


[edit on 24-10-2004 by Fastmover01]




top topics



 
0
<<   2 >>

log in

join