They know who we are

Bear with me as this is my first true thread. I will do my best to remain objective toward the subject matter. I am studying network security, system administration, and wireless encryption. The information I am going to cover is based on my own knowledge and skill set dealing with computer systems. Yet, basically, I just need to get this off my chest.

I was discussing information privacy and online anonymity with my colleague the other day. We soon found ourselves discussing google and atomicity of data. The whole conversation begged the question: If companies, i.e. google, gather data about people (they do), what good is this data if it is not guaranteed to refer to the person in question?

For example. If data is collected about you in order to better serve advertisements on a personal level, what good is it if google messes up and mixes data from someone else with you? Well, its rubbish! It is easy to "code" for what we call Atomicity.

The concept of atomicity is simple: If the data is not 100% correct - chuck it, or ask again. Lets put this knowledge into practice now.

You start your favorite web browser (IE, Chrome, Firefox, Iceweasel, Safari, Lynx , etc) and begin surfing the web. Did you log into a google service, anywhere? They know who you are now, but not just because of the obvious fact that you have logged into their system. They know your IP, but we all know this as well. They put a cookie on your browser too, if you let them...but here is the shocker that few people realize: Next time, you don't need to log in. They remember that IP and the data going with it. Now you may say IP's change...and yes they do! This is where Atomicity comes into play, it effectively allows google (or any company doing this) to see the fact that data has changed. Then google goes back on the hunt for identifying you again, and again, and again. This happens whenever you switch computers, devices, IP's, accounts...but they keep track, and they do it well. It is not only cookies, or the other things I have mentioned here, but a wide swath of techniques. The cool/creepy thing is that all of this is automated. I could replicate this setup at home with virtual computers on a very small scale. I could demonstrate, however, how many different ways I could identify YOU apart from others on the network.

Back to my discussion with my colleague. He told me that they do indeed have such an array of data gathering as to keep you pinned down wherever you go. Even when using Tor or a proxy, the moment they see that cookie or you logged into an account, even an open session because you didn't completely kill your browser before going "anonymous"...basically it is extremely difficult to be truly invisible on the web.

Where is the conspiracy in all this? People don't know the extent of this!! If a man followed you everywhere you went, he would be stalking you. That is a crime, and you would be rightly terrified of his ambitions.

/rant

PS
We ended up deciding that the only way you could be truly "anonymous" online was to do the following:

1. Have a new computer / untouched harddrive / or reformat existing computer.
   
2. Never connect to home networks, as relational mapping will discover the device when you later log in on your regular computers.
   
3. Go to a public WiFi for internet access (i.e. McDonalds)
   

reply to post by hidden0
I am protected from that, they might believe that they know who I am but I am not who they think I am....therefore I am not.(but I am).


And one more thing I am on the safest place in the world...on ATS.

Have a new computer / untouched harddrive / or reformat existing computer. Never connect to home networks, as relational mapping will discover the device when you later log in on your regular computers. Go to a public WiFi for internet access (i.e. McDonalds)

I do all of this, plus I erase all cookies every time I shut down my browser. Yeah I have to manually log in every time I want to do something, but to me it is worth it.

reply to post by hidden0


if you want to see the interconnected nature of data mining get collusion for chrome,
spend the day surfing the net,
then take a look at which trackers are interconnected,
i dont have facebook, yet their tracker stalks me day and night.

everything can be seen
xploder

reply to post by XPLodER


I am going to check this out at work tomorrow for fun ha. It truly intrigues me. I have given up hiding because of how wide this net is cast. To reformat everytime I use my machine is a bit of a hassle. Even if I do my 3 steps to anonymity, society has me "set up"...Any online banking I do? I log into an account...bam, its been done. They got me again!

I basically maintain two separate online personas for that matter. This one? No secret. I'm not hiding on ATS. My reasoning is that I was lurking here long before I registered, but it didn't matter if I registered in secret and with my 3 step process...it would relationally find me at some point.

I also recently deleted my facebook account. Oh man thats a story in itself. My father is "Friends" with Chuck/Charles...(cant remember last name)...He is a alumni from Purdue University and played basketball, his picture is up in Mackey Arena lol...anyways I digress. They were discussing the recent elections, when suddenly Chuck had sent my father something in a private message that was a little too hot for facebook. It was blocked as "Offensive" before my dad could even read it. I immediately deleted my account, having proof they snoop your private messages.

ETA: Using google chrome completely bypasses the need to know an IP, have a cookie, or even log in to an account. It always sends a preconfigured beacon the moment you turn it on.

They know who we are? Yep, I've mentioned this many times in posts on ats, the only real weapon we have is to say I DONT GIVE A TOSS.

If you try to hide they'll see that as a reason to spend some time figuring out who you are.

Soon even your spoken conversations in the street will be monitored so unless we're willing to never speak a single word again whats the point in hiding?

We are totaly stitched up.

reply to post by hidden0


I doubt it is necessary for me to try and remain anonymous from a government or intelligence agency perspective since I recently told the CRA in Canada that I was going to start invoicing them for regulatory and audit tax compliance. They know who I am, they have tapped my phones, performed surveillance from time to time and my file at CSIS is even closed to me under FOIA request, even under appeal, something about national security. But I am growing a little tired of the games, so I decided to opt for legal aggression against their illegal extortion and wrote a thread here at ATS - About Invoicing the Taxman for Regulatory and Audit Compliance.

The system is pretty well tied up with a pretty sickle shaped bow on top. They have your IP, they have their cookies, they are up under all the internet provider's skirts, they can cross reference everything and keep track of everything you do, much of it by inference related to your IP even if you run your system in what you think is an "anonymous" mode of operation.

Wiping your computer won't turn the trick because there is malware existent in even the network protocol drivers and third party drivers, especially from china and any Windows OS is a joke. Unless you are prepared to operate a system that emulates a bastardized and seriously cut-back version of windows operating through a secured host machine that monitors every emulated windows process with the network connections sitting behind at least double class C's and the IP's are spoofed and padded, as well as routed initially through a satellite uplink via a user controlled encrypted VPN in burst data transmission mode, you're going to be had.

You have three choices, live with the intrussion, expend the capital on technology and system development or fight back. Personally, I have chosen to go for the head of the beast in our little corner of the world, specifically the tax system that feeds the presumed value (roughly 50% of federal taxes) into the IMF or some other instrument (to service debt) through our/your national tax extortion collection agencies which supply the funding for these kinds of intrussive programs. The only way to stop the corporations, and that includes government, on the road to absolute tyranny is to starve the beast until it collapses.

I don't promote not paying taxes, but I do promote accountability for the misappropriation, malfeasance and fraudulent use of taxpayer monies and public funds and the potentially requisite treason charges for these assclowns in government that work against us, their meal ticket, so diligently. So if you want to stop the intrussion and stalking, the laws and regulations will need to change and the only way we will get that is a house cleaning. That isn't going to happen unless people get pro-active.

You can't proceed on a journey until you take the first step.

Cheers - Dave

reply to post by bobs_uruncle


Well said! I agree with everything in your post Dave. Once I get my bachelors (or masters) I may hit you up for a job, you sound like the kind of boss I would like to have (in the areas I would like to work) lol.

Originally posted by hidden0
reply to post by bobs_uruncle

 

Well said! I agree with everything in your post Dave. Once I get my bachelors (or masters) I may hit you up for a job, you sound like the kind of boss I would like to have (in the areas I would like to work) lol.

Are you a masochist? LOL. The one very nasty thing about the military in some cases is that once you decide to leave, you can quickly turn from asset to liability. We had an old adage kicking around, "Once the job is done, so are the engineers." The speed at which you turn is exponential to what you know about the politics behind your "job" and your handlers. I still design hardware and develop software, I just don't take on military clients anymore, too much stress after the job is done. In fact, the cdn admin consul in Pretoria almost got my entire family killed through negligence, ineptness, good old fashioned stupidity or just plain malice while I was trying to escape. Everything has consequences and it's a good idea to go in with your eyes wide open if you can.

Cheers - Dave

reply to post by hidden0


Number three does not work because your computer contains a unique machine ID. So using public or piggybacked WiFi access doesn't mean they don't know who you are - it only makes it more difficult for them to pin you down should they wish to find you.

Also, please understand that this just isn't your Internet use that is monitored, keyword searched, profiled, and even stored. It's also all of your electronic interactions... phone calls ( cellular and land line ), your credit card usage, and even what you watch on television is also fed into the machine for consumption.

If those things lead to you being flagged? Then you can add any number of other levels of scrutiny. For example, the windows of your house are effectively speakers. Just by using special equipment ( from a distance ) to monitor the vibrations of the glass in your windows ( even just one - anywhere in your home ) every single sound made within your home can be captured, recorded, and deciphered.

I've got a number of threads that deal with aspects of this subject - and have enough source material for at least a dozen more. All public domain knowledge.

Having said all of that? Don't let the paranoia get to you, Just posting to boards like this, or Googling even sensitive terms is not going to get you scrutinized - at least not to any degree worth worrying about. The models they use for assessment are built to include those who walk at the edge of the circle of what is "acceptable". Most of us will never cross outside of that line, even if we tried really hard - simply because we don't have physical access to the materials or information that would put us outside of it.

Then again, I haven't tried to buy a plane ticket in about fifteen years... so I could be wrong about that.

~Heff

This is useless. I mean, most of your points are valid, but......have you ever bought anything online with your real address? Ah, they know where you live. Ever put a photo of yourself online? Youre screwed. They can use facial recognition to find you on cctv.

Using a fresh machibe reformatted hard drive not connecting to a network is useless. They cant get into your home network without you letting them. They cant see your hard drive. And ip tracking isnt reliable. Even if you do have a static ip you can call your isp and get a new one. Usually with cable it changes if you unplug your cable modem a few minutes.

But its all pointless. They know where you live. They could sneak in your house and bug it.

Thanks for the posts guys, especially Hefficides (read a lot of your posts and threads on here)!

I am quite well aware of these things, I have built a little "spy laser" in the past to hear what my neighbors across the street were saying lol. It wasn't the greatest gizmo, a car driving by would cause enough wobble in the beam to throw off the audio signal. Yet I have read about the ability being used on cars from satellites in space very effectively.

I kind of threw this rant up in a really high level fashion. I'm glad you are all adding such detail to what is so lacking in my OP, this is wonderful! Now, the problem is...ATS seems pretty well versed in such things, from what I am seeing. I wish I could get this whole thread posted in verbatim perhaps on Facebook. No, more than that..I want people who do NOT know about this stuff to read up on it en masse.

My numbered list is not a pick and choose though, you have to do all 3 every time. The machine ID I'm not truly aware of..I know that some operating systems (Windows, for example) sets a user id in the system...but the main thing I know is absolutely, 100% uniquely identifying me is my MAC (Media Access Control) Address...has quite the fitting name

MAC's have not yet been repeated (as far as I know) in hardware, and they reside on your network card. It is possible to fudge the MAC up though and make it something else.

reply to post by bobs_uruncle


I overlooked the military aspects of your career, so please forgive me

Masochist? Perhaps...actually, yeah...I am..as long as the punishment is rewarding hahah. I am a bit naive about the world for my age, but I'm working on fixing that.

reply to post by phroziac


Zero Day Exploits are, sometimes, state funded productions. Unfortunately, I can not find the article about that...it was on wired, I'll do some digging...

Found it

If you are on the net they know who you are. either by purchases, or your ip address. You signed up to ats??? they have your email?? have a dummy email.. well they still have you IP address maybe even your mac address somewhere.. which is specific to your pc. If someone wants to find you bad enough they will. heck you have a cell phone they know where you are.

Five years ago a man in my city killed his kids and buried them out in some corn field. They used his cell phone usage to find where he buried the kids. I remember the fbi here. Unless you live under a rock with no documents without ever having touched a computer/cellphone i doubt you are unknown.

Heck i can even find information on my grandparents and they don't even know what a pc is and do not have a cell phone. I CAN FIND THIS INFO ON THE NET.

FYI

Ad companies that are tracking on this website: Quantcast and Dedicated Networks

Companies tracking individuals on this website: Quantcast, DoubleClick, Chartbeat, and Google Analytics

Unless you have blocking software, these companies are tracking each and every one of you here on ATS.

Abine.com is one way to block this, there are others. It's free.

Originally posted by hidden0

1. Have a new computer / untouched harddrive / or reformat existing computer.
   

Here is a page where a guy goes into detailed explanation of how to
protect yourself when using your computer.

Complete Guide to Government Surveillance and Technology 2012

just scroll down to
Technical on computer hacking abilities of the government:

govspyinyourhome.blog.com...

Originally posted by hidden0
Bear with me as this is my first true thread. I will do my best to remain objective toward the subject matter. I am studying network security, system administration, and wireless encryption. The information I am going to cover is based on my own knowledge and skill set dealing with computer systems. Yet, basically, I just need to get this off my chest.

I was discussing information privacy and online anonymity with my colleague the other day. We soon found ourselves discussing google and atomicity of data. The whole conversation begged the question: If companies, i.e. google, gather data about people (they do), what good is this data if it is not guaranteed to refer to the person in question?

For example. If data is collected about you in order to better serve advertisements on a personal level, what good is it if google messes up and mixes data from someone else with you? Well, its rubbish! It is easy to "code" for what we call Atomicity.

The concept of atomicity is simple: If the data is not 100% correct - chuck it, or ask again. Lets put this knowledge into practice now.

You start your favorite web browser (IE, Chrome, Firefox, Iceweasel, Safari, Lynx

, etc) and begin surfing the web. Did you log into a google service, anywhere? They know who you are now, but not just because of the obvious fact that you have logged into their system. They know your IP, but we all know this as well. They put a cookie on your browser too, if you let them...but here is the shocker that few people realize: Next time, you don't need to log in. They remember that IP and the data going with it. Now you may say IP's change...and yes they do! This is where Atomicity comes into play, it effectively allows google (or any company doing this) to see the fact that data has changed. Then google goes back on the hunt for identifying you again, and again, and again. This happens whenever you switch computers, devices, IP's, accounts...but they keep track, and they do it well. It is not only cookies, or the other things I have mentioned here, but a wide swath of techniques. The cool/creepy thing is that all of this is automated. I could replicate this setup at home with virtual computers on a very small scale. I could demonstrate, however, how many different ways I could identify YOU apart from others on the network.

Back to my discussion with my colleague. He told me that they do indeed have such an array of data gathering as to keep you pinned down wherever you go. Even when using Tor or a proxy, the moment they see that cookie or you logged into an account, even an open session because you didn't completely kill your browser before going "anonymous"...basically it is extremely difficult to be truly invisible on the web.

Where is the conspiracy in all this? People don't know the extent of this!! If a man followed you everywhere you went, he would be stalking you. That is a crime, and you would be rightly terrified of his ambitions.

/rant

PS
We ended up deciding that the only way you could be truly "anonymous" online was to do the following:

1. Have a new computer / untouched harddrive / or reformat existing computer.
   
2. Never connect to home networks, as relational mapping will discover the device when you later log in on your regular computers.
   
3. Go to a public WiFi for internet access (i.e. McDonalds)
   

Why even bother with the internet when they could get the real deal?

Ha, you could be stalked every-night of your sleep, if alien's (if true) exists (tons of evidence that they do) what is to stop them from having some incredible advanced mechanism on the moon and track your A$$ every night of your life. Why be bothered by fluff (internet) when they could get the real deal, Why bother going here or there, All they would have to do is just upload >YOUR< accounts of every single action of your every day and night existence on earth, comings and goings and you would never know it. Except, why does your brain produce all these dreams that you SEEM to never of had in all YOUR existence. HELLO!

But of course you probably would have to be in a deep sleep to do their invasions. Maybe that has been going on sense the beginning of time and very few have a clue. Maybe the military is catching on I don't know. Just a hunch. Maybe through SCHOCK invasion, like when you get a monstrous nightmare, that shocks you into giving up the goodies.

Sounds horrific but why are UFO's SO secretive if not for doing spying and trying not to associate with us.

Maybe some are better than that and our GOOD beings, I hope so. But only your (hairdresser) oops I mean military knows for sure. :^).

reply to post by piequal3because14


Lol... I block 5 - 8 trackers every time I come to this site... Safest place my butt.

Blocking right now.

Quantcast
Gorilla Nation Media
Google Analytics
DoubleClick
ChartBeat

So who isn't tracking you?

reply to post by hidden0


A couple of years ago a short film was made called "Track Me If You Can". I believe you can watch the whole thing on Youtube. It's about a guy's attempt to get off and stay off the grid for a period of time. There's a lot of common sense things covered and a few surprises (at least for me) in the film as well. Definitely worth the time to watch...