The War on Men

reply to post by Zinky


I definitely see your point, and this brings up a question in my head - one of the possibilities in the future would be a "mating season" type society, where the guy and girl date for like a year or two until the the two break up and the girl raises her kid on her own.

Both "mating season" and "lifelong partnership" societies exist in nature.

Thoughts?

Originally posted by FailedProphet

The pendulum has swung too far. Men are waking up to the war on men, and opting out of systems that oppress them.

I feel sorry for people like you. Always seeing wars, fights and conflicts around every corner. Put your drink down and chill out. If you indeed want a woman, which I would find hard to believe, know the type you want and become that man who would attract them. Maybe the man you are will attract a woman though. A woman who doesn't "oppress" you and lets you rule the roost as you see fit.

I'm having a hard time seeing your point. You want women to be more feminine but you really don't come across as the kind of guy who will attract them. You sound like you want someone subservient while you dominate, and since society doesn't agree with your viewpoint, you're being "oppressed". Whatever floats your boat man, but don't try to come across as someone who is trying to enlighten the masses simply by agreeing with a survey that is endorsed by a feminist. That's not very becoming of a caveman now is it?

For the record, and your post is a perfect case in point, most of the women I've run across in my life made sense. Most of the men I've run across don't. There are some things about men and women that are gender neutral. Like intelligence. You either have it or you don't regardless of body parts. If women want to take the reins and start taking things over I for one am not going to complain about it. I'm not going to see it as a war that's trying to take away my masculinity either because there isn't a woman alive who can do that. ( That's why I attract them, you understand) Just because a woman is in charge of certain things doesn't make me any less of a man. It makes me more of one because I'm not ashamed to let someone take over where my shortcomings leave off. And vice versa. That's what makes a relationship work be it professional or personal, but first people have to get to that point where they're willing to cede the responsibilities they can't handle to their better half. Hence the term "better half". And unless you're Superman there will be things you can't handle. And don't say "the dishes" either. Try not to be a prick.

The only reason this topic is being discussed is because there are way too many people in America like you who take too much stock in what surveys say. As if they're indicative of society in general. Remember, she said she ran across a "subculture" of men who don't want marriage. By definition that's not the majority, but since you agree wholeheartedly you're trying to spin the whole thing by saying "the tide is turning".

And people say Fox news is biased.

Nice try "Failed Prophet", but you're living up to your username.

reply to post by darkbake


She lied to me at first than said that I should share her with other men. I did not feel like she thought of me as her equal.

Originally posted by skepticconwatcher
reply to post by FailedProphet

 

FOX NEWS ?

Ha. Okay.

No. Women of today are NOT wanting to get married as we see it as nothing more than a lifetime job as a grown mans baby sitter , housekeeper and sex slave.

NO THANKS.

Just the kind of gal I want to take home to meet Mom.

reply to post by FailedProphet


If it's coming from Fox news, I think it's another "Divide and Conquer" article. Since Mittens couldn't get the woman vote, Fox has to re-vamp their female audience.

Reading these comments, I see it's still working. C'mon, now! We know better than to fight over stupid crap like this.

Lima-1, out.

reply to post by FailedProphet



I you read Suzanne's website - - - this is her whole shtick.

She's a former teacher - - now wife and mother - - and that's her whole shtick. She lives in St. Louis. MO. A red state.

A teacher-turned author and social critic, Suzanne Venker is, first and foremost, a wife and mother of two school-age children. She has written extensively about politics, parenting, and the influence of feminism on American society. suzannevenker.com...

Me being 66 - - and a part of the Women's Independence Movement - - - - I don't take lightly women today who have benefited from the Feminist Movement - - - and choose to deny its importance.

The Feminist Movement was about giving women Rights and Choices.

Suzanne is benefiting from those Rights and Choices.

reply to post by FailedProphet


The thing is, while the divorce rate is around 50%, and "the system" absolutely favors women in those cases, but, the reason the divorce rate is so high is that most of those people have no business being married in the first place, or were in such a rush to get married, they just locked it up with whatever desparate soul came along.

As far as women who are the type nobody really wants to be with...just don't. It isn't all women. The problem is, again, some people are so desparate to fulfill the "timeline" they've created for their lives, and on top of that, are highly incomplete individuals to begin with, so they put themselves in terrible situations just to fulfill their checklist.

To swear off of marriage forever because one believes that all women are (whatever it is they don't like about women), is stupid. Why not be open to possibilities (if it's something one would otherwise want.) the type of person one may be looking for is out there, just not as common as the insecure, broken-type women (same with women seeking men.) IMO, probably less than 25% of the population, ideally, should ever marry or procreate. I'm not saying by force, but by choice.

I guess I strayed a bit from the topic, but my main point is, it's not that all women are defective, nor all men. The guys who feel like all women are (whatever negative aspect they focus on), are either deficient themselves, or don't know how to seek a proper partner for them.

It's true that the system grossly benefits women in cases of divorce. Even in cases of women who are alcoholics / drug addicts, the father needs to lawyer up big-time to get full custody of his children.

Originally posted by dogstar23
. . . my main point is, it's not that all women are defective, nor all men. The guys who feel like all women are (whatever negative aspect they focus on), are either deficient themselves, or don't know how to seek a proper partner for them.

Ain't that the truth.

One MAJOR misconception is Feminist's are bullies attracted to weak men. That is as far from the truth as you can get.

Strong women are attracted to strong men (unless they are Lesbians). Weak men would bore me to death. The last thing I want to hear from a man is "I NEED YOU". It's also the last thing I want any man to hear from me.

I WANT to be with you - - I want to share a life with you. Not I NEED YOU.

As far as the Divorce rate. Parents need to seriously start early teaching the difference between LUST (physical chemical attraction) - - commitment and responsibility. Building a life together requires commitment and responsibility.

I've already had this conversation with my 12 year old granddaughter - - who is physically striking.

Lust without responsibility and commitment is just Lust. A physical chemical reaction without substance is disastrous.

I made her make a list of her wants - intelligence - education - humor - etc. Then check it off with any man she is interested in.

The ones who whine the loudest are the men who don't know how to be REAL MEN, they want to be total A-holes and treat women like dirt instead of treating them with love and devotion. When women won't put up with them and the way they act, they whine and cry that women's lib did this to them.

No, women's lib didn't make you a total A-hole, YOU made you one. No woman, whether she is old fashioned or new-wave is going to put up with crap like that. They'll never marry you to start with let alone stay married to you.

If you want a wife who is "old fashioned" and wants to stay home and be a wife and mother, then be a man that deserves it to start with. That will help in your search more than anything else.

Why would any woman in her right mind dedicate herself to someone who can't even take care of themselves, let alone take care of a wife and a family?

They whine and cry that they want women to be a certain way and they want her to do this and do that, but do they step up to the plate and be the man that deserves a woman like that? NO, they don't. They want to have their cake and eat it too.

You are not entitled, you are not special and you do NOT deserve your own personal slave. Get up off your backside, take a shower, get a career instead of a dead end job, make something out of yourself. That involves getting out of your mother's basement, that involves getting an education, that involves working for a living at and dedicating YOURSELF to something other than your own wants and desires.

The y chromosome doesn't entitle you to anything. Women don't NEED you, they marry someone they WANT to marry. Don't like it? Well that's just too darn bad. Don't expect dedication from someone else when you aren't willing to give dedication back to them. YOU don't live up to the standard you want them to live up to. Why should they???

And ANY woman who talks about staying home and being a mother and all the BS that the woman in the article does, happens to have a very very rich husband that actually provides for her, not one that barely pays the bills, lays out drunk and cheats on her. It's a two way street. Be the man you're supposed to be and maybe you'll find a woman that is who you want her to be. It starts with you, not with her.

reply to post by FailedProphet

Dude,

Been following this thread a bit. Kudos to you for having the grit to post it. Your opinion is clearly misunderstood by most everyone as I have read so far. I happen to agree with you 100%. Yes I have been divorced so I have that experience. But it is not a source of bias for me. Women are favored in family court. Period. You would have to be retarded to disagree with that. But all one need do is watch television to see the proof of what you speak. Most every action or adventure show ( talking national networks here) always have a strong female character. This by itself is not a bad thing. But they almost always counter with some sniveling sissy male characters that inevitably need to be saved by the females. Case in point, the new show NBC Revolution. Case in point most any SciFi channel movie, too numerous to name, even if I could remember them.

reply to post by Fondue


yeah, sure... Miles and Monroe are sniveling, cowardly men who need someone to save them.....

Are you watching the same show the rest of America is watching??

reply to post by skepticconwatcher

No. Women of today are NOT wanting to get married as we see it as nothing more than a lifetime job as a grown mans baby sitter , housekeeper and sex slave. NO THANKS.

... is exactly the attitude the author was highlighting.

I did some research and I found that women statistically initiate divorce 66 percent of the time. And a fair percentage of that is because the husband is not making enough money, or the wife is simply bored. So here is an analogy. Would you get in your car and drive to work if you knew there was a 34 percent chance you would make it without being hit by a Semi? Would you go skydiving if there was a two out of three chance the parachute was not going to open? Most people will answer no. So, if you are a man and you are faced with a 66 percent chance that your wife will initiate a divorce, which will most likely result in near financial destruction, in THIS economy, would you be rushing off to a church? I think most likely no.

reply to post by PurpleChiten


I was referring to the formerly wealthy tech mogul who left his wife because he couldn't protect her. Although he is growing to be somewhat of a man lately. Also the kidnapped brother who has to be rescued by Charlie. And the father in the original episode who stayed home to raise the kids, while the wife went out into the world. Yes the female stars are tough, and in many cases growing tougher. I didn't mean to disparage that. It's all good as far as I am concerned. Perhaps that show is not the best example. But look at some of the scifi channel movies and you will see what I mean. There is no need to "compete" between men and women. Personally I prefer women who are strong, opinionated and intelligent. I respect that in anyone of either sex. But the point is, generally in main stream entertainment there is lot's of girl power. And also lot's of weak kneed male characters as the counter point. There does seem to be some kind of agenda hidden in all of it. At least to me...

I am a feminist, if feminism means true equality in freedom, employment, pay, rights, and treatment by fellow human beings. I'm also feminist (or perhaps post-feminist) in the sense that I think women can be as feminine or fashion-conscious as they want (even though personally fashion is a foreign concept to me lol) without doing it for men, and still be independent in thought and action. (Though I have also encountered women who tell themselves they do this for themselves, but definitely do it for others, which is unfortunate in my opinion.)

I don't think we can talk about feminism in general without acknowledging that globally, even if not domestically anymore (though that's debatable,) women are still highly oppressed. Things may be much better here, but this is not the case everywhere. And as Martin Luther King said, "Injustice anywhere, is a threat to justice everywhere."

However, with all of that having been said, I do definitely perceive - at least in the U.S. where I live - an incredibly anti-male bias and a lot of double standards that do lead me to believe that the pendulum has indeed swung a bit too far in the opposite direction... at least in certain contexts.

The legal system's pro-female bias is one such area. My father dealt with this particular issue despite being the more mentally stable, gainfully employed, level headed of the two parties, so I have seen it happen. He suffered greatly because of this and is only now recovering psychologically from it, though he would never admit that. We are close and I can tell.

Another area is socially. I had a female therapist tell me to change the clothes I wear because they would make me confident. I assured her that my social anxiety (which stems from my Asperger's and how I process stimuli) had nothing to do with my clothes, and that dressing humbly and without regard for what others think of me superficially was part of my principles. She then proceeded to patronizingly tell me (though I have no doubt that her intentions were good from her point of view,) "Here's what people might think of you when they see you dressed this way. Poor. Lazy. Slob..." She went on and on. Dressed me down. As someone who is horribly nervous around women and has a deep seated desire to be accepted by them, this was incredibly emasculating.

When I went to my female friends - or who I thought were friends - for support, I was told she was right, and that I should be expected to dress as women would perceive as acceptable and that it was normal and should be expected that I would be shunned if I didn't. One even said I was "delusional" for expecting otherwise.

If a man - any man - told a woman how to dress, much less to dress as men would find aesthetically pleasing - which I would never dream of doing mind you, most women would cry bloody murder. This was a hurtful and humiliating experience that I didn't even recognize the psychological impact of until much later. It led to a period of depression and isolation. Which I actually had a woman subsequently tell me was me being "weak." Whereas female friends in my life would always come to me when they felt similarly expecting (and receiving) comfort, I was expected to be "strong" and masculine in the face of my own pain. My circle of friends evaporated after this.

This is just one personal experience, but seems to be a microcosm of the kinds of double standards and bias against men that are beginning to become the norm today. Don't get me wrong, though. Globally, women remain oppressed. And even here, things like equal pay are hard to secure, and there is still sexism and maltreatment of girls and women which are both still huge problems that should be eliminated if we are to progress to being a more equal, fair society. But it has recently become acceptable for women to treat men poorly, and I'm just being honest... it hurts.

Peace.

reply to post by FailedProphet

LOL Here I am wasting time here again but the fog is rolling in, I have a fresh cup of coffee will enlighten you dweebs a bit.

First, I have been married 4 times with 4 children (one with each) of which includes one Russian one Norwegian and I can in all honesty say I have always had pretty much any woman I wanted but as you might tell, wanting them and wanting to keep them after a number of years are not the same.Now at almost 60 and the head on my shoulders being firmly and finally in control, I have found that Solomon was right about women but I will not quote him; it would only upset the females. I use the word Female and not Women, very much knowing the difference from every perspective, including as a father, as I have two grown daughters (almost grown, now at University). They too were a part of my awakening about women (my romantic relations are always only with women, not girls..non nondescript females). I have watched my daughters rip the hearts out of men, one after another and truly has brought a shiver down my spine....in a few cases.

Anyway, the fact that I am tall, good looking and able to charm my way when I want to aside, women are mercenary and when things get bad, really bad, you will find women are not as stupid as some think; you will find the best looking women playing "Weak Woman" and deserting their Feminist Aspirations for the security they can find with men who can cut it, protect and provide for them.

I have watched around the harbor, the club and elsewhere. Ugly Women never have good looking men on their arms but their are plenty of Frogs with good looking women on their arms.

I have something to do so I am going to cut this short by saying, there are plenty of women in the world.gorgeous, sexy and good company..and there will be more available as things get worse.

Originally posted by paganini

Originally posted by FailedProphet

Meanwhile culture is unambiguously pro-female an anti-male, for decades now portraying men as bumbling Homer Simpsons and women as superior in every way in movies, TV, magazines, and books. Young men go into hock for college liberal arts educations heavy on feminist theory and man-bashing.

For every bumbling Ray Romano or Doug Heffernan character theres a heap of strong intelligent male characters. Rambo, Indiana Jones, James Bond, the expendables, the numerous superhero movies out now, etc,etc. Some of these are even images of masculinity that have remained popular for decades so this is nonsense. It seems like the crack pots mens rights activists just get their panties in a bunch anytime a man is portrayed in a way they dont like.

Originally posted by FailedProphetPerhaps worst of all, women have lost all traditional qualities of femininity, taught by media and academics that these are "oppressive," and become more like pale copies of men. Hollywood's relentless infatuation with homosexuality aside, most men don't want to marry and date other men -- or women who act more like men than women.

what exact traditional qualities are these?

Indiana jones , james bond and rambo types are the reason why feminism began in the first place. they are not symbols of masculinity more like symbols that drove women to feminism. Womanizers who fear commitment or are too invovled with killing and have mental issues. Rambo, james bond and indiana jones are to men as as la femme nikita, xena warrior princess and lara croft are to women.

really?? that is what you think masculinity is??? No woman wants that crap. One thing is to be rough and gruff another thing is to be a turd like the examples you just spouted out. You really have no clue what a man is.

OP you are spot on. I decided not to marry an american woman after feeling like having a woman is a miserable job. I had women who werre dieing to marry me but their feminist views and tendencies made it a nightmare. I began to look over seas for a women. I found one and she is nothing like american women and has feminity unlike most american women. I make her feel like a woman she makes me feel like a man and we have a wonderful relationship.

haha james bond and indiana jones hahahaha really?? really??

Originally posted by AceWombat04

The legal system's pro-female bias is one such area. My father dealt with this particular issue despite being the more mentally stable, gainfully employed, level headed of the two parties, so I have seen it happen. He suffered greatly because of this and is only now recovering psychologically from it, though he would never admit that. We are close and I can tell.

Yes - - but I don't see how this has anything to do with Feminism.

This is social structure. Society still believes the mother is the better caretaker of children.

Just like society still believes men are better leaders.

If anything Feminism has helped men out of their programmed role in society - - - and made society aware that men can and want to be the custodial parent.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by AceWombat04

The legal system's pro-female bias is one such area. My father dealt with this particular issue despite being the more mentally stable, gainfully employed, level headed of the two parties, so I have seen it happen. He suffered greatly because of this and is only now recovering psychologically from it, though he would never admit that. We are close and I can tell.

Yes - - but I don't see how this has anything to do with Feminism.

This is social structure. Society still believes the mother is the better caretaker of children.

Just like society still believes men are better leaders.

If anything Feminism has helped men out of their programmed role in society - - - and made society aware that men can and want to be the custodial parent.

I have one question..

why is it that a woman is allowed to choose the fate of a man and child......??? why??

If a woman decides to abort the child dies regardless of when life begins in your opinion.
If a woman decides to have a child and the man does not want to he is still obligated to respond finacially. the man has little or no say on the matter.

why the bias?? just because a woman has a womb?? that sounds very sexist to me.

Originally posted by votan

I have one question..

why is it that a woman is allowed to choose the fate of a man and child......??? why??

Is there something in the OP in regards to abortion?

I didn't see it.