Chistianity: How can you base a religion on the teachings of one man..

WHEN YOU HAVE ONLY SECOND HAND SOURCES!!

Nothing was written by JC, not the old testament (not surprising it predates him) and not the new. The new is full of biographies of JC but nothing by the man himself. NO AUTO-BIOGRAPHY!

It's like trying to be a serious neo-nazi (good luck) but never actually reading "mein kampf" instead basing your opinoins on Hitler on "the hitler diaries" or something you've seen on the Discovery channel. It simply just does not add up.

Here we go ....I wish I could be here to watch this but I gotta get to work...for the record, I believe there are valid parts to the bible and truths there...but you'd have to go back to the original scrolls to find them as mankind has torn it apart, left books out, added to, subtracted from and replaced anything that didn't fit the re-writers views...
EDIT: As to Jesus and the Christian religion...Jesus never wanted to start a new religion, he was trying to get the Jewish people back to the proper laws! Christianity was started after his death...duh....hence the name...if he were here today he would not even recognize his teachings!

[edit on 10/22/2004 by LadyV]

Chistianity: How can you base a religion on the teachings of one man...

Quite easy if you must ask....think about it.
Religion is like philosophy, it can be easily created and influenced by "one man".

Krishna ring a bell....further research will yield others.

Seems to me that this topic is another "lets bash Christianity because" type, though I may be wrong. Time will only tell, eh?



seekerof

Its very simple you used a "man" and real or not, it easier to manipulate the truth to fit the particular agendas, I agree with Seederof on this one.

Look around you and see how easier is to manipulate one "chosen one" over an entire group. I bet that the people that decided to use "jesus" as the one never ever dreamed that the world was going to last this long and that he was going to become so famous.

Do the following names mean anything to you Guru Nanak, Moses, Buddha, Mohammed, Joseph Smith, L Ron Hubbard, Yogi Bhajan.

Honestly this is a weak thread - belongs in BTS.

Originally posted by Seekerof
Seems to me that this topic is another "lets bash Christianity because" type, though I may be wrong. Time will only tell, eh?

Oh PUHLEESE!

This is a serious question how can you base your self on some guys teachings if that guy NEVER WROTE ANYTHING HIMSELF.

That's it, c'est tout, dass ist alles!

Edit: adressing other points made:

Guru Nanak, Moses, Buddha, Mohammed, Joseph Smith, L Ron Hubbard, Yogi Bhajan

I am not sure if these guys wrote anything themselves or if they have all been paraphrased by others... do you?

L Ron Hubbard surely has written stuff, might have been a ghost-writer though

Edit: i couldn't spell to save my life. ][

[edit on 22/10/2004 by Corinthas]

To answer the topic question: by giving people advice that works for more than 2000 years. People on the whole will not stick with something that fails. You don't see too many Abdominizers sold today

Hi Saint4 God:

If people "do not stick with something that fails" (or is evil etc.) than how do you explain the presence of more than 25 million neo-Nazis still clinging to their cherished dream of world domination literally scatttered all over the world today---all busy reading Mein Kampf for inspiration the way a Jew does his Talmud?

The "Nazorean" Church that was founded by "Jesus" 'blood brother James after the crucifixion---more or less failed in its pure unadulterated form as messianic movement----the Jewish War of AD 66 took care of most of them---and what "took over" Christianity after AD 70 was the gentile- goyim firendly Pauline Church founded and spread abroad by a man (born in Turkey!) who never once set eyes on the historical "jesus" but only saw lights and heard voices in dreams and visions---a bit like my cook.

If the original message of "Jesus" were to be kept in tact still today in the original Galilean Aramaic dialect in which he spoke (i.e. if he wrote down his teachings exactly the way he taught them himself) we would not recognise much of what he had to say compared to the way Christians believe----nor would we like much of what it would contain...

It would have appeared overtly racist to modern 21st century audiences, and might have sounded a little like the Dead Sea Scroll's War Scroll in its race -prejudice... read Matthew chapter 15 (a Nazorean inspired writing)

("I have not come to save any but the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel" he told a poor gentile woman who had come to him for help..."and anyway, since when is it right to take the bread of the Children out of their mouths and throw it to the dogs underneath the table?") etc.

Not very nice speech, by any stretch. So his zionist rhetoric was deliberatley softened in order to sell his message to the goyim (gentiles).

The original message would have had to have been adapted and changed to suite the goyim---before it died out completely---

If his original speech was allowed to stick (without all the goyim loving Pauline twists and turns) "Christians" would still be called Nazoreans, and would never have broken away from Judaeism----or from obeying the Torah or having circumcision mandatory or keeping kosher diet laws---things that he and his brother demanded before admission to his "Yahad" (Community) ---in other words, the religion of "R. Yehoshua bar Yosef" (which was imbedded within 2nd Temple Judaeism) would have not been very much different that Rabinninc Judaeism today...just another sect --in other words we would see them in the list of Rabinnic style Judaeisms practiced today (Ultra Orthodox, Orthodox, Observant, Reform with "Nazorean" added....) etc.

Originally posted by Amadeus
Hi Saint4 God:

If people "do not stick with something that fails" (or is evil etc.) than how do you explain the presence of more than 25 million neo-Nazis still clinging to their cherished dream of world domination literally scatttered all over the world today---all busy reading Mein Kampf for inspiration the way a Jew does his Talmud?

The "Nazorean" Church that was founded by "Jesus" 'blood brother James after the crucifixion---more or less failed in its pure unadulterated form as messianic movement----the Jewish War of AD 66 took care of most of them---and what "took over" Christianity after AD 70 was the gentile- goyim firendly Pauline Church founded and spread abroad by a man (born in Turkey!) who never once set eyes on the historical "jesus" but only saw lights and heard voices in dreams and visions---a bit like my cook.

If the original message of "Jesus" were to be kept in tact still today in the original Galilean Aramaic dialect in which he spoke (i.e. if he wrote down his teachings exactly the way he taught them himself) we would not recognise much of what he had to say compared to the way Christians believe----nor would we like much of what it would contain...

It would have appeared overtly racist to modern 21st century audiences, and might have sounded a little like the Dead Sea Scroll's War Scroll in its race -prejudice... read Matthew chapter 15 (a Nazorean inspired writing)

("I have not come to save any but the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel" he told a poor gentile woman who had come to him for help..."and anyway, since when is it right to take the bread of the Children out of their mouths and throw it to the dogs underneath the table?") etc.

Not very nice speech, by any stretch. So his zionist rhetoric was deliberatley softened in order to sell his message to the goyim (gentiles).

The original message would have had to have been adapted and changed to suite the goyim---before it died out completely---

If his original speech was allowed to stick (without all the goyim loving Pauline twists and turns) "Christians" would still be called Nazoreans, and would never have broken away from Judaeism----or from obeying the Torah or having circumcision mandatory or keeping kosher diet laws---things that he and his brother demanded before admission to his "Yahad" (Community) ---in other words, the religion of "R. Yehoshua bar Yosef" (which was imbedded within 2nd Temple Judaeism) would have not been very much different that Rabinninc Judaeism today...just another sect --in other words we would see them in the list of Rabinnic style Judaeisms practiced today (Ultra Orthodox, Orthodox, Observant, Reform with "Nazorean" added....) etc.


What evidence can you give me stating that Jesus Christ was born in Turkey? I'm not saying you're wrong, however I've never heard it mentioned. It sounds pretty interesting though.

Hi SimulAcra:

I was referring to R. Shaoul of Tarsus who preferred a Greek name ("Paul")

The city of Tarsus was the Capital of the Province of Cilicia in present day TURKEY (famous for being a center for Stoicism and more notoriously for pirates and being the entry-point for the cult of Mithra, Christianity's main rival, after BC 80)

"Paul" never met "R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean" in person, only in dreams and visions, yet called himself an "Apostle" with authority, despite fighting bitterly with the Nazorean founders of the movement which followed "Iesous" (R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean) and his brother James ('the just'), who did not allow gentiles into their community and demnaded kosher diets and circumcision and full obedience to the laws of Moses...

Sorry for the confusion: just understand that modern Christians today are "Pauline" Christians, and do not base their "faith" on the original "Nazorean" teachings of "Jesus" who told people to obey the Torah and give all their worldy goods away to the poor (Mark 10:17 and parallels).

It really is a pity that "Jesus" did not write anything down except for doodles with his finger in the sand (as it says in the 4th gospel ) !

[edit on 22-10-2004 by Amadeus]

Originally posted by saint4God
People on the whole will not stick with something that fails

And something cannot fail when they manipulate it to fit the situation.

Males really don't have one less rib than females? "Well it wasn't meant to be taken literally."

God says he doesn't want you to have sex before marriage? "Well in God's eyes we were already one flesh even if we hadn't jumped thru all the hoops yet."

And so on, and so on. That's the only one quality I admire about Christianity: it has a lasting quality due to the fact it can be interpreted in any way. On one end, some have interpreted it to mean you should love and accept everyone, on the other end, some have interpreted it to mean you should do God a favor and kill sinners. Pretty distinct differences right there, and they all stem from the same Bible.

if he were here today he would not even recognize his teachings!

That is likely very true...

To answer the original question though, supposedly it is written by those who travelled with him, so at least it's a second hand account...written by Jesus' "groupies" if you will... He was kind of like the original rock star, hehe....

Why do you believe in a LAW that was made up by IN .... b/c this law may not be a law at all why do you believe in this one man. Oh Newton sais what and you see it. Well I challenge you this ... GO INTO a Pentecostal church ... sit there just through the worship ... and See if you cannot feel god if you cannot feel god after than come back and talk to me and I will talk to you about Demons and how they can get in between us and god b/c of prior experiences even if it has nothing to do with god. But if something happend in any of you guys life at one time if you do not believ in god .... YOU BLAMED IT ON GOD !!! ... How can you blame something on someone that you do not believe in ... and why are you even in here talking about him if you do not believe in him this thread is of the devil just trying to pull people away from God. And the people that are strong in god do not have to worry about anythign but all others be warned a day is coming thtat you wil bow before the one true god. EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW and every TOUNGUE confess that JESUS CHRIST IS LORD. So ... Please live the best you know how... and not one thing is going to make you a bad person .. it is who you think you are that matters. If someone is talking # to you and it hurts your feelings Cut your ears off and that will fix why you are getting mad. If you see something that upsets you. Then cut out your eyes and you will not have to worry about that putting so much anguish on you from then one. If a leg hurts .... cut that ho off ... You won't have to worry about it if you can't play basketball. Forget that it exists. and that wil maek you happy ... HAPPINESS IS OBLIVIOSNESS!!! Or someone trying to be OBLIVIOUS ... Does this mean it is impossible to have a completely happy life?

Originally posted by W_HAMILTON

And so on, and so on. That's the only one quality I admire about Christianity: it has a lasting quality due to the fact it can be interpreted in any way.

I am going to agree with this part, just like one size that claims in fit all that�s how god and Jesus have become to the world, but like the fallacy that one size fit all, you can attest that is not so, some actually seems ridiculous wearing the same thing, it does not fit at all so when that happen some will alter the truth just to make it fit.

The truth can be twisted any way you want until it will never resemble the original at the end. That is why we have the same God and �Jesus� and different religious groups in this country and different religious believes in the world.

Sorry if I am ranting here.

Ah, so much knowledge, but so little understanding. So many individual facts but so little truth.

Jesus, is like any other God in that what is written about Him is written by men who have experienced Him. This is the primary failed premise of this thread in that Jesus did not claim to be mere man but the Son of God. Thus like all other main religions what is written about Him is written by men other than himself. To suggest that Christianity is flawed because the object of worship did not write about Himself is to elevate by inference Jim Jones type cultish religions where the divine figures do proclaim their own deity.

The beauty of Christian religion, can be found in the historic development of man's relationship with GOd over the history of man. This is a religion that predates most other living religions existing today. Further its writings have been penned and passed down through hundreds of generations yet remain doctrinally consistant when seen as a developing relationship within a corrupted world. The fact that Christian religion is successful at reconciling the story to itself from Genesis to Revelation over the vast span of time that these book encompass is at the very least a proof of concept.

It is my understanding that God kept his book in large part in the form of historical accounts, records, and letters in order to maintain the key element of the religion. That element is the central focus of Christianity, relationship. Biblical Christianity is not about ceremony or structure. It is about a living, dynamic, relationship with a Savior who is more than a man but is in fact a God who laid down his existance for the lost and enslaved of a fallen and vile world. One can only find the truth about God and Christ in a relationship with the Godhead. Those who seek it purely intellectually will be confounded until they come to a point of relationship. THis is the best way to ensure that there will always be a true religion. If pure understanding were available soley by intellectual pursuit then the religion would be quite easily corrupted by some induction of misguiding information or mistranslation. If, however true understanding is only available through the tutorship of the GOdhead himself as aided by a historical, relational, account, by which to filter truth from vain imaginings, then the purety of the religion will be perpetuated despite the occasional heretic or demogog who seeks to pervert it.

Suspect indeed is a GOd who must write about Himself in order to perpetuate a belief in Himself. Far more powerful is a God who perpetuates belief in Himself by the personal experiences of each believer with himself that are consistant with written accounts of other such believers. God throughout the Bible used peoples relationship with Him to correct wrong doctine and unbeleif. He then further uses the accounts of such correction and encouragement to build a framework of faith by which to more expediently guide believers into a holy relationship with Himself. It is brilliant as I would expect from a deity.

Originally posted by bet555
GO INTO a Pentecostal church ... sit there just through the worship ... and See if you cannot feel god if you cannot feel god after than come back and talk to me and I will talk to you about Demons and how they can get in between us and god b/c of prior experiences even if it has nothing to do with god. But if something happend in any of you guys life at one time if you do not believ in god .... YOU BLAMED IT ON GOD !!! ... How can you blame something on someone that you do not believe in ... and why are you even in here talking about him if you do not believe in him this thread is of the devil just trying to pull people away from God.

Errm...right...if I can decipher your post correctly I have responses:

Yes, I went to a Pentecostal church for several years of my life. And sorry to tell you I didn't feel god. I felt people who thought they were feeling god. You see, as a human, it's easy to interpret and manipulate any feelings you have to what you want them to be. You or the church members may indeed 'feel god'; but does that mean that they truly are? Answer here __________.

The Devil: Oh please, now you're a Puritan? Satan is a state of mind, an idea. 'He' only harms you if you allow him to be real. He can't come into your "relationship" with god unless you let him.

*(Disclaimer: I do not believe in god and never will)*

So be555

it has to be in a pentecostal church right? well you know what mass histerial is right? well apply that to a group of people that "think" they all driven by the same forces, yes you get the same thing and you will feel the same thing because your mind is precondition to feel the same collective thought.

What one man's teachings are you referring to?

[edit on 26-10-2004 by know1edge720]

It's been done and followed for the last 2000 years. Show me something else that has lasted that long!

Being a christian is believing jesus is god's son. Jesus said blessed are those that have not seen yet belive. And what history is ever received in first hand accounts. Every famous person in existence didn't write an autobiography yet we know and are taught about them. Anyways all the knowledge you have is way more than second hand as it has been passed down since humans have been in existence.