The Fourth Turning. (History Really Does Repeat Itself)

What about the Cold War?

As a Gen X myself, the following stands out to me...

-The end of the Cold War, just simply beyond imagination...yet it did not bring peace.
-The rise of the religious right and the ongoing struggle to keep them out of everyones business and bedrooms.
-The Polarization of American politics and its harmful effects.
-The destruction of the enviroment, previous generations had this manifesto that we could just do as we pleased with the Earth. Oh how very, very wrong they were.
-The continued unmasking of Corporate America and who is really running our lives.
-We were warned about the Military-industrial complex...
-The slide of the American middle class into lower class status as trickle down economics is proven to be a lie.
-The rise of the internet and information overload. Spreading enlightenment and ignorance in equal measure.

There are stirrings that America may yet become a more enlightened nation but some are going to get there kicking and screaming every step of the way.

Originally posted by Subsonic

Originally posted by xxdaniel21]

certainly history does NOT revolve around America!

.I don't know exactly to what extent you qualify that statement because certainly America has only been here in the worlds recent history. But I can assure you that when it comes to the players and events that are present in the culmination of this age, America is upfront and center. To much of the world is looking at Israel and they have it in their minds that the fulfillment of prophecy hangs in and around that area. But they are seeing it from man's eyes along with incorrect teachings of escatology. For those of you who do not know what escatology is, it is simply the study of interpreting biblical prophecy concerning the end of this present age and the beginning of the millenial reign.
Certainly Israel also plays a role in this parade but when it comes to understanding the prophecies in daniel about Daniel's people in the latter days, you are talking about the so-called ten lost tribes.(lost to the world and themselves but not to God) you see God had a vision and promises to fulfill and America became that great nation where his people would obtain rest, a sanctuary if you will. As America roles down this path and as the enemies of God rule over them.(a brief side note here) When I speak of America and its constitution I am speaking of those came from Europe and the british Isles and founded this country under a covenant given by God. This man Barak Hussien Obama will tear us in pieces now. He has already divided the land for gain. We are very polarized right now.. I wil leave this for now because the subject is so extensive. Just now that the end times biblical events hang around America, the place where Jacob was gathered again. There are many strangers that cling to Jacob now and they are the reason Obama got elected. You can't beat Santa Claus. lol

Interesting, but have you also noticed that the dates are actually decreasing by 5 year intervals?

1776-1861 85 years
1861-1941 80 years

so really if you take that into account were actually due in 2016

1941-2016 75 years

reply to post by Edgar806


I think that shows the date of the major crisis in the fourth turning, but shouldn't be used to measure the gap between each. It can happen anytime in the fourth turning period.

For instance, the cycle which includes WW2 started in 1929, and ended about 1947.

reply to post by Subsonic


Actually if you wanted follow the pattern more exactly, the periods seem to reduce by 5 years. 1941 is 5 less years removed from 1861. 1776-1861 = 85 years 1861-1941 = 80 years

1941 + 75 years = 2016

reply to post by Subsonic


I would disagree that the starting point would be 9/11/2001. It was our response to 9/11 that would start the cycle. Then you have the shenanigans of the bankers on top of this. So it's the combination of the banking fraud and the massive funding of 2 wars, which resulted in this economic calamity, plus our never ending war on terror which results in more hatred. This scenario is the starting point of the new crisis period.

my first thought was that 80 years was close to a complete revolution around the sun for the planet uranus.

uranus by the way rules revolutions and expect the unexpected. i could not reach back to 1776 but

1861 uranus was 8 degrees gemini

1941 uranus was 28 degrees taurus----------it wont be 28 degrees taurus again until 2025, so unless there is a challenging aspect to it on the dates the OP mentions, like 2020, then my theory is out the window.

Generational Dynamics

A few weeks back I noticed a similar pattern and even put the idea in a thread. While researching, I came across the website linked above. It's pretty interesting.

I had theorized the pattern being 76 years. 1784 was the end of the revolutionary war, 1860 the start of the Civil War, 1936 the beginnings of WW2 and now 2012. Being a multiple of 4, it works out nice that they are all US election years. Of course, this holds true for an 80 year pattern as well.

In the thread I wrote I mentioned that maybe my origin point was off, and it would be more accurate to start at 1788(constitution) and go through 1864(civil war end) and 1940(US enters WW2). The first way of doing it worked a little better with the theory that 2012 is a critical year. But maybe the stress of 2012 mythology is exactly what will lead to a critical year between now and 2020.

Regardless, it is an interesting historical trend. What seems to happen is that a generation goes through severe trauma, which provides the incentive of experience to sort of straighten things out. Then, 80 years or so of relative quiet follow until this "scared straight" generation dies and things get messed up again.

The website explains:

Generational Dynamics is based on a simple idea: That societies and nations make mistakes and then learn lessons from those mistakes. But generations grow older, retire and die, and are replaced by new generations who are too young to remember those mistakes and those lessons. When that happens, the mistakes are repeated.

This is important today, because one of those mistakes is to have a major war. There are certain wars called "Crisis Wars" that are so violent that they actually put the nation's survival, or at least the nation's way of life, in danger. America's last crisis war was World War II, and the previous one was the Civil War. (World War I was never a crisis war for America.)

Many crisis wars are are world wars. A diagram showing the major crisis wars for the last few centuries is at the bottom of this page.

Generational Dynamics is very important at this time in America's history because we've entered a new "crisis period." Ten years ago, all the nation's senior government, business and educational leaders and managers were from the generation that grew up during World War II, and experienced the trauma of seeing homelessness, starvation and death all around them, while they lived in fear of German and Japanese bombers. That risk-aversive generation dealt with problems using compromise and containment.

Today, those risk-aversive leaders are gone, retired or dead. Today's leaders are from the "Baby Boomer generation," born after World War II with no personal memory of that war. The people in this generation are not risk-aversive. The people in this generation are more likely to be risk-seeking, arrogant, hubristic, narcissistic, and self-assured. That's why America's attitudes have changed so much in the last ten years.

Once you understand Generational Dynamics, then you'll understand a very great deal about how the world works, and about America's future for the next thirty years.

Thousands of corporate executives booked flight to Denver for some TURnKey over the 'thanksGiving' holiday. Could they be assembling in the underground bases for the special occasion?

What do you think?
Is everyone prepared?
.....For an 'event'?

well if there was thousands of years involved id agree, but to center around one country and say it works for the world i dont agree with, americas history might be repeating itself because we allow the same type of people to "rule us". so obviously over time those "types" are going to make the same types of choices /shrug.

and even on just america repeating itself, those are very few time line plots to use to say for sure that its repeating, there are many other historical events in this countries past that could be reflected apon as being turning points in american Culture/history that would just F this whole theory up.

i do agree in most cases history will repeat itself because humans for the most part are dumb, lol and for every step forward we take two steps back. just look at the economic collapse, this crap doesnt happen over night, wasnt the first crash , wont be the last, why, humans never learn and we allow scum bags to lead us around like dogs.

reply to post by Subsonic




Just going off those dates I immediately thought of birth pangs mentioned in the bible. Maybe som subliminal thoughts from earlier threads I read today but I do notice a shorter span of time between those dates and considering eithe Iraq war or 2012 or both.

As far as gen x i am but the most I noticed as a teenager was gen x association of being lazy, slackers and lack of cause. Unlike my parents who wash out ziplock bags and don't throw anything away. However they had me late in their age so most people my age may not relate. I see this as advantage as well as distinction. However may e in my rebound I will have more involvement with the coming millennia generation which will give me great experience in three generations versus just my own.

Good post

This might be an interesting theory, but I don't think it's really that mysterious.

20 years intervals make a lot of sense.

It takes approx 20 years after someone is born to become an adult
It takes 20 years if someone is a young adult, to become a mature adult (say 20 - 40) which could often lead to different views, politics etc. than someone had as a teen.
It takes 20 years for a mature, grown adult in the 40s to become old and retire, etc.etc..

Say, people are born in a time such as War, say they are 5-6 years at the time and therefore heavily influenced from early on. What would logically follow? 20 years later, those EXACT people are old enough where they could have influence, eg. in politics etc. Their new views on things can be entirely different, while the older generation with old views is gone or retired.

Let's give another example...post WWII... late 40s.....more or less 20 years later, it creates an entirely new generation, hippie movement, new-agers, anti-war

Just remember guys!

Crazy events don't always happen, but when they do, they happen to the USA.

It's funny why home rule in Scotland wasn't included. That was a big event.
WWI, known as the great war? - 20 million casualties
Korean War?

There are so many wars, you're highly likely to find some pattern.
There have already been upheavals that aren't included in your list and have happened with in the 80 years.

I think we are entering a time of civil unrest, but, I don't think its a case of wars being started for the sake of it. More like a natural cycle. It's probably less than 80. More like 20 in my opinion, but and interesting topic.

S&F

reply to post by Subsonic


I was doing some research for this thread, and started reading about what you heard on the radio. Check this out: Strauss-Howe Generational Theory



I was particularly interested in if the same pattern had happened prior to the Revolutionary War, and to attitudes of generations prior to 1900.

reply to post by Subsonic


Actually...if you liked that book you should read their original work. The Fourth Turning was actually more of pop culture follow-up to Strauss and Howe's more scholarly work found here.

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1352861192&sr=8-1&keywords=generations+the+history +of+america%27s+future

It's a lot more detailed and they prove the case far more thoroughly over the last 400-ish years. I read it when it first came out in '93.

Originally posted by darkbake
reply to post by Subsonic

 

I was doing some research for this thread, and started reading about what you heard on the radio. Check this out: Strauss-Howe Generational Theory

I was particularly interested in if the same pattern had happened prior to the Revolutionary War, and to attitudes of generations prior to 1900.

edit on 13-11-2012 by darkbake because: (no reason given)

Yep. You can pick up a copy of their more scholarly and in-depth work that will go into detail on the matter starting in 1584 here.

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1352861192&sr=8-1&keywords=generations+the+history +of+america%27s+future

I HIGHLY recommend it.

Or maybe some knew what they were talking about when they labeled Generation X....which makes the current generation, Generation Z (the last?).

What exactly does GEN'X want to change in this world? How are GEN'Xers going to steer us out of an age of upheaval?

They're not really a generational united front if you know what I mean.

Might pay to have a look at fact 39 on this website

40 outrageous facts

It states the principal that wars are in place to bestow the illusion of government.