how outdated are the marines?

To start i mean no offense to the brave men and women in the U.S marine

corps but it seems they are not up to date on technology. To start they

have not replaced there ageing M-16's with the new M-4. In fact they still

use the ancient M-14. Also they do not have the M1A2 tank and still use

the M1A1.Also they still use the EA-6B prowler which was last updated in

1984. Perhaps worst of all they still use the AH-1 cobra. The cobra is an

excellent attack helicopter, but the apach helicopter is much better. Also

they still use the "huey" helicopter which really should be replaced with the

UH-60 black hawk. But on the brightside they will be replacing the M-16

with the new M-8. Also the Sea knight helocopter will be replaced by the

MV- 22 osprey.

I am no Marine, but I assume there are very good operational reasons for keeping "old" stuff. i know we Brits have many an "Oldie" in service, as they are proven to work, and there is no need to upgrade

they still use the ancient M-14.
the M-14 is just as good as it whas back in nam.

[edit on 20-10-2004 by bloodlust11009]

part of the reason they still use the m-14 is that it is far more reliable in adverse conditions than the m4 not to mention more stopping power and accuracy.

What they lack in federal funding they more then make up for in their ability. I'll tell you what - I know a LOT of marines and a LOT of Army GI's. I'd go to war with the marines over the Army EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK (no offense to any one that served in the army). It's just that they are on the whole WAY more into their work, aka fighting, then the average army grunt.

How could you want to get rid of a group of men that have the rifle creed?

My Rifle: The Creed of a US Marine
by Major General William H. Rupertus (USMC, Ret.)
(written following the attack on Pearl Harbor)

This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life.

My rifle, without me, is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than my enemy who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will...

My rifle and myself know that what counts in this war is not the rounds we fire, the noise of our burst, nor the smoke we make. We know that it is the hits that count. We will hit...

My rifle is human, even as I, because it is my life. Thus, I will learn it as a brother. I will learn its weaknesses, its strength, its parts, its accessories, its sights and its barrel. I will ever guard it against the ravages of weather and damage as I will ever guard my legs, my arms, my eyes and my heart against damage. I will keep my rifle clean and ready. We will become part of each other. We will...

Before God, I swear this creed. My rifle and myself are the defenders of my country. We are the masters of our enemy. We
are the saviors of my life.

So be it, until victory is America's and there is no enemy, but peace!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


As they say "Semper fi - do or die!" (Semper Fidelis; latin for always faithfull)


Some great quotes concerning marines (notice how many people from the Army are quoted):



SECRETARY of State Colin Powell put an Iraqi reporter in
his place the other day. The scribe tried to sandbag the statesman by
asking, "Isn't it true that only 13 percent of young Americans can locate Iraq
on a map?" "That may be true," Powell snapped. "You're probably right.
But, unfortunately for you, all 13 percent are Marines."

"Being ready is not what matters. What matters is winning after you get there." (Lieutenant General Victor H. Krulak, USMC, April 1965.)

"You don't hurt 'em if you don't hit 'em." (Lieutenant General Lewis B. Puller, USMC, 1962.)

"Retreat Hell! We're just attacking in another direction." (Attributed to Major General Oliver P. Smith, USMC, Korea, December 1950.)

"Goddam it, you'll never get the Purple Heart hiding in a foxhole! Follow me!" (Captain Henry P. "Jim" Crowe, USMC, Guadalcanal, 13 January 1943.)

"Come on, you sons of bitches-do you want to live forever?" (Attributed to Gunnery Sergeant Dan Daly, USMC, Belleau Wood, June 1918.)

"Once a Marine, always a Marine!" (MSgt Paul Woyshner, a 40-year Marine, is credited with originating this expression during a taproom argument with a discharged Marine.)

"I can't say enough about the two Marine divisions. If I use words like brilliant, it would really be an under-description of the absolutely superb job they did in breaching the so-called impenetrable barrier. . .Absolutely superb operation, a textbook, and I think it'll be studied for many, many years to come as the way to do it." (General H. Norman Schwarzkopf, USA, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 27 February 1991.)

"I have just returned from visiting the Marines at the front, and there is not a finer fighting organization in the world." (General Douglas MacArthur, USA, outskirts of Seoul, 21 September 1950.)

"Casualties many; Percentage of dead not known; Combat efficiency; we are winning." (Colonel David M. Shoup, USMC, Tarawa, 21 November 1943.)

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a MARINE and his rifle!"
GEN. PERSHING, US.ARMY

"We're surrounded. That simplifies the problem!"
CHESTY PULLER, USMC

"The more MARINES I have around the better I like it!"
GEN. MARK CLARK, U.S. ARMY

"I want you boys to hurry up and whip these Germans so we can get out to the Pacific to kick the s**t out of the purple-pissing Japanese, before the Godda**ed MARINES get all the credit!" Lt General George Patton, US Army 1945

"I can never again see a UNITED STATES MARINE without experiencing a feeling of reverence."
GEN. JOHNSON, U.S. ARMY

"The raising of that flag on Suribachi means a MARINE CORPS for the next 500 years."
JAMES FORRESTAL, SECRETARY OF THE NAVY

"Come on, you sons of b*****! Do you want to live forever?"
GySgt. DANIEL DALY, USMC

"We're not retreating, Hell! We're just attacking in a different direction!"
GEN. OLIVER SMITH, USMC

"I have just returned from visiting the MARINES at the front, and there is not a finer fighting organization in the world!"
GEN. DOUGLAS MACARTHUR, U.S. ARMY

"Teufelhunde! (Devil Dogs)"
GERMAN SOLDIERS, WW1 at BELLEAU WOOD

"So they've got us surrounded, good! Now we can fire in any direction, those b*****ds won't get away this time!"
CHESTY PULLER, USMC

"We have two companies of MARINES running all over this island and thousands of ARMY troops doing nothing!"
GEN. JOHN VESSEY, CHAIRMAN OF JOINT CHIEFS

"Retreat hell! We just got here!"
CAPT. LLOYD WILLIAMS, USMC

"The safest place in Korea was right behind a platoon of MARINES. LORD, how they could fight!"
MAJ. GEN. FRANK LOWE, U.S. ARMY

"Panic sweeps my men when they are facing the AMERICAN MARINES."
CAPTURED NORTH KOREAN MAJOR

"There are only two kinds of people that understand Marines: Marines and those who have met them in battle. Everyone else has a second-hand opinion." Unknown


"WE STOLE THE EAGLE FROM THE AIR FORCE, THE ANCHOR FROM THE NAVY AND THE ROPE FROM THE ARMY.
ON THE SEVENTH DAY WHILE GOD RESTED, WE OVERRAN HIS PERIMETER, STOLE THE GLOBE AND WE'VE BEEN RUNNING THE WHOLE SHOW EVER SINCE.
WE LIVE LIKE SOLDIERS, TALK LIKE SAILORS, AND SLAP THE HELL OUT OF BOTH OF THEM.
WARRIORS BY DAY, LOVERS BY NIGHT, PROFESSIONALS BY CHOICE, AND MARINES BY THE GRACE OF GOD. "



And a great cartoon of the typical marine:

My friend in the Marines said it was like they got the hand me downs from the Army. Even if they dont have some of the newer equipment it does not effect their preformance IMO.

I agree with the other people on this thread about the M-14 that is still a fine rifle with great range and stopping power.

If I remember right, the USMC falls under the Navy budget, so I would imagine that the Navy spends the bulk of their money on subs and carriers and the MC gets the left overs.

The Marines got the new ALICE packs before the Army did. MOLE system? I forget the name, but I talked to some Marines who said the new packs suck.

The US Navy SEALS just recieved an order of a new 16" barrel version of the M14. Also, many Army snipers(including those of 1st SFOD-D, aka Delta Force) use standard and modified versions of the M14.
As far as the M4 goes, I think the Marines have done the right thing. While the M4 is lighter and easier to maneuver in close quarters combat, it has also been found to lack stopping power(as a result of its 14" barrel and .223 ammo) The M4 as we know it is being replaced(at least the upper recievers) with a new version that fires the 6.8mm round(co-designed by the 5th SFG).
Also, the M16 is being phased out for the new HK rifle. Maybe the Marines are saving their precious pennies for those....

I was a Leatherneck...got out 4 years ago.I rember one time we were doing a mock combat exercise v.s a comperable Army unit,this was at Camp Lejeune, NC ..anyhow we had 15 marines in our "team" and took out over 60 army dogs in 2 hours,we absolutely crushed them.And the amazing part was that they all had N.V.G's or Night Vision Goggles.We had nothing but our M16A2 service weapons.....Hell,,they had no excuse...We also took over there whole refueling point and all of there supplys and humvees as well...hehe.

Hey Lucid...Semper Fi

Tell me is the bar called the Globe (1985ish) still open???

Lejeune..........Ah....what an exchange!

Well said LucidV...

"We Don't plan, We improvise".

When It Absolutely, Positively Has To Be Destroyed Overnight... 1-800-MARINES

(just a little something i ran across a few years back. when i got out of basic, i made a plaque with this on it and gave it to my recruiter. i can't thank the Corp enough for helping me get where i am today).


Marines are the most peculiar breed of human I have ever witnessed.
They treat their service as if it were some kind of cult, plastering their
emblem on everything they own, making themselves look like some kind
of insane fanatics, with their hair of ungentlemanly lengths, worshiping
their Commandant as if he were a god,and making wierd animal noises
like a band of savages.The'll fight like rabid dogs at the drop of a hat just
for the sake of a little action, and they are the cockiest sons of bitches I
have ever known. Most have the foulest mouths and drink well beyond
any mans normal limits. But their high spirits and sense of brotherhood
set them apart from all others.
Generally speaking, the United States Marines I've came in contact with,
are the finest men and the most professional soldiers I have ever had the
pleasure to meet.

~anonymous


You'll NEVER find that kind of loyalty and commitment from any other branch of service, anywhere in the world.

Semper Fi Baby!!!

thanks for correcting me on the m-14. As many and most of you pointed the m-14 is none the less a effective and lethal wepean. Though it never the less rather old. But who says a old dog can't learn new tricks.

0311 is all I need to say!

Semper Fi fellas

when i got out in '82 the USMC recieved 3% of the Navy budget and i had heard there were times we tried to give some of it back. (if it's broke fix it,
if it doesn't move paint it, etc.) ooohhh-rraahhhh, one for the Corps!!!!

Yeah, the M-14 is old, but so is the Colt 1911 .45, and its still the most popular handgun out there. Despite the fact that the Army adopted the Beretta M9, most special operations personel still prefer the .45 for its stopping power. Marine Force Recon uses Colt 1911s, and most Delta operators use either tricked out 1911s or SIGs in .45.

Last time I've checked they (USMC) were using M16-A4's (M16-A2 with a picatiny rail system) not the stock M-16-A2's.
AH-1's that they currently use are AH-1W and AH-1Z's (way better then the previous models, like the Huey Cobra), and if you were watching news lately, their "not so good" cobras were not lost to enemy fire in such big numbers as the "much better" apaches. In the Afganistan, when the apches were taking too much fire while providing CAS to the troops on the ground, guess who they called.. the AH-1 cobras.
Also, the M14/M1 is mostly used as a DMR by both the Army, and the USMC.

Originally posted by apw100
Yeah, the M-14 is old, but so is the Colt 1911 .45, and its still the most popular handgun out there. Despite the fact that the Army adopted the Beretta M9, most special operations personel still prefer the .45 for its stopping power. Marine Force Recon uses Colt 1911s, and most Delta operators use either tricked out 1911s or SIGs in .45.

Force Recon dumped the .45 in favor of the beretta 96. (in either 9mm or .40cal). The reason for this was that NATO had more 9mm ammo than they did .45cal... I own a .40cal Vertec, it's one heck of a firearm! The last time I was up to Miramar, for the airshow, all the MPs were carrying the Beretta 96...

Correction the marines DO use the Black hawk. The source I used said they didn't. One of my marines friends told me.