Why do you think it's so terrible to be a bleeding heart liberal?

Originally posted by ANOK

The prob with majority rule is when the population is lazy and kept in the dark the majority really doesn't know what's good for it.
When you have majority rule by a centralised government it's no better than a dictatorship.
Putting people on the outside by labeling them "bleeding heart" or whatever is no less than sencorship.

Calling or labeling people "profit mongers" just because they want the government and busy-bodies to stay out of their affairs is also no less than censorship - according to your theory that is.

By the by - we live in a republic where it is not majority rules as found in a democracy, we are ruled by laws.

Don't mistake this country for a democracy - you will find that word nowhere in our constitution.

My point in bringing up the whole religion thing (which was an extemely poor idea) was to point out that NO religion or subculture has a monopoly on good-will toward their fellow humans. I wrote what I did because I get a little tired of hearing how horribly self-centered MY people are, how we are a blight on the planet, etc.

Surprising how much commmon ground there is once you get past the labels.

If bleeding heart liberal is a stereotype, then so it "money grubbing rich republican."

quote][1]Gardenia

About welfare programs: I agree that everyone needs a hand from time to time, however there MUST be limits to it.

Agreed...as I stated in my earlier post....it was intended as a way to help ou in times of need...not meant to be a way of life!

mwm1331
I object to cable TV for penetentiary inmates. Why can't they read?
I object to being told that I can not spank my chldren when they misbehave becuase it is "abuse"
I object to sueing gunmakers because some people commit crimes with guns instead of prosecuting those who mis use them.

I couldn't agree more! When one is sent to a penitentiary, it is for punishment! I do not believe they should have cable TV, exercise rooms with the newest of modern equipment almost like a spa......it absolutely absurd!
My kids got little bottom spanked...not abused...again, I couldn't agree more!
Guns? I hate them! But suing the gun maker is another absurdity...like eating McDonald's all your life and then suing them because your fat and unhealthy! American is sue happy and just rediclous!

I did not read this thread, and don't really care to.

I am responding to the thread title only, not any other post.

The Liberal is at war with America, has disdain for her Christian roots, for this country of the USA was founded on principals gleaned directly from Christianity. The 10 commandments, GOD, and many other Christian principles were incorporated into, and believed in by the framers of the constitution, the founding fathers.

They did not write at length about the "virtues" of homosexual lifestyle, nor did they write in defense of abortion. These are instruments of the liberal left, and in direct conflict with the core beliefs of the founding fathers and most fundamental principals set forth by a Christian people who emigrated here some time ago.

[edit on 21-10-2004 by smokenmirrors]

Nope...wrong....I suggest you read the following thread

www.abovetopsecret.com...

By the by - we live in a republic where it is not majority rules as found in a democracy, we are ruled by laws.

We are ruled by the laws of the rich. Rep/dems alike. This is a country of elitists that divided and conquered all of us with the result that we are "at each others throats" over what's better, liberal or conservative. We live and die at their whim. Isn't obvious that this is a country ruled by the haves and at the expense and toil of the have-nots? I do not mean dole out more welfare, so don't play that card.



[edit on 21-10-2004 by Der Kapitan]

Originally posted by LadyV
I couldn't agree more! When one is sent to a penitentiary, it is for punishment! I do not believe they should have cable TV, exercise rooms with the newest of modern equipment almost like a spa......it absolutely absurd!
My kids got little bottom spanked...not abused...again, I couldn't agree more!
Guns? I hate them! But suing the gun maker is another absurdity...like eating McDonald's all your life and then suing them because your fat and unhealthy! American is sue happy and just rediclous!

That doesn't sound like something I would hear from a "bleeding heart" When I think of "bleeding heart liberal" I think of someone who blames society for ones actions, instead of personal responsibility. Someone who puts compassion above responsibility. Maybe we just need clear cut definitions, or maybe you're not a "Bleeding Heart Liberal?"

Originally posted by DiabolusFireDragon
That doesn't sound like something I would hear from a "bleeding heart" When I think of "bleeding heart liberal" I think of someone who blames society for ones actions, instead of personal responsibility. Someone who puts compassion above responsibility. Maybe we just need clear cut definitions, or maybe you're not a "Bleeding Heart Liberal?"

Maybe I am a combination of the two? Until recently, I have not "labeled" myself either....I vote for whom ever I feel is the best one to do the job...

I suggest you read this....

www.geocities.com...

Originally posted by smokenmirrors
I suggest you read this....

www.geocities.com...

I'm sorry, but America was not founded on Chrstianty

I suggest you read this
www.postfun.com...

And here would be another site, which delves into Massachusetts

www.apologeticspress.org...

"The Founding Fathers of America understood the source of these immutable, universal values to be the laws of nature, or �natural law,� i.e., the laws of the God of the Bible�Whom the Declaration of Independence identified as �Nature�s God.� Listen to Founding Father Noah Webster�s observation: �[O]ur citizens should early understand that the genuine source of correct republican principles is the Bible, particularly the New Testament, or the Christian religion� (Webster, 1832, p. 6). "

Methinks, and am obliged to state, that you, my friend, are wrong!

So we then have Freedom of Religion as long as it is christian based?

Originally posted by edsinger

Treehuggers - (animals before man - I believe in stewardship)

We're all part of the same world. If x number of species are dying every year, that affects other animals, which in turn affects us.

Originally posted by edsinger
Wealth Redistribution

Society life and participation in a common national project, instead of every man or woman for him/herself.

Originally posted by edsinger
The Fine art of building a dependant voter base- give them free # at other expense

The fine art of coming together to bring society further.

Originally posted by edsinger
Weak on Defense - rather spend on social giveaways

When you know that a fraction of what's spent every year on defense could feed all the poor in Africa, you betcha that I don't think defense is a priority. Besides, conservatives seem to think that the only way to get out of an antagonistic situation is to kill the other guy before he kills you. Liberals believe that A) you should actually try to talk to the other guy and mend fences first, and B) if that doesn't work, you should bring your friends if you're going to beat him up.

Originally posted by edsingerAnti-Death Penalty

Yep! I think that if some people are going to be executed without their culpability being proven beyond any doubt - either because they had bad attorneys or they happened to be African-American - it's barbarism, and it's clumsy justice.

Originally posted by edsingerPro-Abortion

If my wife is spina bifida and is going to end up in a wheelchair after giving birth, or if the doctors discover complications that could cost her her life, you bet, I'm pro-abortion. It's her body anyway - she has a right to control it.

Originally posted by edsingertax and spend economics

Same as conservatives, except liberals spend it on social programs for people who actually need it (no, not the lazy ones) instead of weapons of mass destruction.

Originally posted by edsingerInhibit business from profit making

Make sure that businesses observe some basic rules, such as minimum wage, a normal work week, not making children work like they did in the 1870s...

Originally posted by edsingeranti-capitalism (Actually I do not think true liberals can support capitalism)

A funny story... when I visited Mali, in Africa, I arrived at the airport in Bamako and was surprised to see, on the baggage belt... American grain. Now it wasn't for emergency relief, because Mali, although poor, is self-sufficient when it comes to grain. So I wondered whether the US government had convinced the World Trade Organization that Mali was unfairly protecting its grain...

If that's what capitalism means, and if capitalism means no protection for employees, as well as a return to turn-of-the-century production practices, then you bet I'm anti-capitalism.

Originally posted by edsingerSometimes no belief in a Creator.

That seems to be a national issue in America, and it's not my place to go into that. However, what seems to be the difference is that some people will believe in a God of love, who created us in his own image and wants the best for us, instead of a God of anger who will punish and judge the non-righteous when their time comes.

Originally posted by twitchy
And just exactly what is wrong with pot smokers? How about I hate you because your a coffee drinker? Or cram you into a category for being a flouride user? Let's not go draggin pot smokers into some abysmal 'goth' stereotype here. For one thing, drug use is widespread through all classes and societies, period. You can't categorize any particular group with any particular drug with the exception of geographical limitations to the distribution of that drug. If you want to start labeling with drug use, we can go that route, but be prepared to hear names like Bush and Barry Seal in my subsequent rebuttals.

I just gotta.

First, my coffee doesn't make me stoned. Stoned people, in my experience are pretty, well.... I'll just leave it at stoned. But there's a reason they call it dope. I know plenty of people who get high, and I did for a while I was a teenager, so it didn't matter much because I was already stupid. I could never hate anyone for getting high, but I'm just saying...

I'm afraid we're all flouride users. I don't think any of us can avoid it one way or another. Prozac users take it voluntarily, not to mention pay good money for it. That drug is the great American crutch, in my opinion.

Drug abuse in all classes of American society? Thank you. You are the first person I've heard, other than myself that realizes we're all drug addicts in one way or another. If there's a problem, there's a pill for it! Except drug abuse. The first company to invent the drug abuse drug will either take over the world, or be responsible for the next evolution of humanity. If we could just get off all drugs, we could probably ascend a level psychicly.

But I like to drink, so I could be wrong.

Not only the drugs, but just all the chemicals of our own creation that we ingest, imbibe, absorb, inhale, walk through, get rained on, whatever.

Bad Joojoo, mang

What would be called liberal views are at heart good ideas were they fail is in the execution. They are noble goals for the most part but the methods to achieve those gaols are flawed.

''If your not a liberal at 20 you have no heart, If your not a conservative at 40 you have no brain''

Strong words, no doubt but in the present context, they are absolutely accurate

Originally posted by Der Kapitan
So we then have Freedom of Religion as long as it is christian based?

To the contrary, my friend. Freedom of Religion is granted. The argument here is whether Christian tenents, Christian Values, were undeniably the most powerful force affecting the people at the time, to state otherwise is a flat out lie. It was not a Muslim faith, nor a Buddhist faith, nor a Native American Faith which was the basis for the religious beliefs of those who came here.

It was, however, due to the lack of freedom to worship as they pleased, the Christian people here ensured that right to generations to come.

"to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."

"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence"

To deny Christianity was the major contributing factor to the belief system and subsequent behavioral choices of the peoples of early America is simply ludicrous, at best.


www.ushistory.org...

Originally posted by LadyV
I'm sorry, but America was not founded on Chrstianty

This is what I see.

It was founded on Christianity, and up until about 1959, it was the best thing we had in common. It kept us together. But now, there really all that many Christians left in America, and that's causing a problem.

The Christians that still truly believe and live as Christians (there are many more Christians than good Christians), also believe that everyone should be Christians and believe and behave according to the Gospel. It's a missionary type religion that demands that all people in the world adhere to its tenets. Just as Judaism and Islam, as they are basically the same religions.

On the other side, which is, I believe about 75% of America, they just say no, you're wrong. And it is an endless argument, because faith has the real effect of causing one to feel infallible. Like god, in a way. That's the goal, after all.

This arguement will go away only when one of two things happen:

a)Jesus descends from heaven, deposes Lucifer, and reigns as king of this world for a millenia, at which point something will happen, which remains unclear.

b)The Christian God dies just as all the other gods before him, and people of the future laugh at themselves for being so silly.



[edit on 21-10-2004 by DeltaChaos]

You are speaking of the Puritans? The same Puritans who were denied entry into three different Christian countries before striking out for the New World. I dare say that 16th religion was not very open-minded or liberal in it's practices. If the Puritans were chucked out of Europe for being extremists, then is ANY extremist viewpoint good to start a country that professes all these "God given rights?" I don't see how such an ethic allows for any other's thoughts/practices.

[edit on 21-10-2004 by Der Kapitan]

Dr.Strangecraft - you read through five volumes of Das Kapital??? I commend you, apparently it's one of the most boring and arcane books ever written. No matter Marx spent so much time in public libraries grabbing a feel of the pretty librarians - he must've been bored to hell writing that!

Phoenix - Indeed, most liberals I know - in the US and Canada - will say that social programs should come with rules. For example... two weeks ago (on October 8) I ended a job I'd held for five years. It wasn't because I quit or left in bad terms - just because, being in the non-profit sector, we'd hit a bad patch financially and my boss couldn't justify my job to his board anymore.

So now I'm on Employment Insurance (EI) - your run-of-the-mill unemployment insurance. The way it works is this - if you've worked at least a year full-time (and they count the hours as declared by your employer) you're entitled to 4-6 months of EI payments - the duration and the amount is calculated using the salary you made in the last weeks before losing your job, as well as the unemployment rate in your region. Furthermore:

- You can't get EI if you quit your job yourself, unless you prove that you have to escape a truly horrible work atmosphere where you tried everything to make it better;
- Every month, you have to declare all the job search steps you've taken;
- You have to declare when you travel outside the country (basically, they expect you to be available to work all the time - and it's designed to avoid people filing for EI and then going to Florida for the winter);
- Every part-time income you make must be declared, and it's deducted from your EI payments.

So really, it's not money for free. Sometimes I feel it's more of a nuisance, but hey... I paid into it for five years, 400 bucks a year...

Originally posted by Der Kapitan
You are speaking of the Puritans? The same Puritans who were denied entry into three different Christians countries befroe striking out for the New World. I dare say that 16th religion was not very open-minded or liberal in it's practices. If the Puritans were chucked out of Europe for being extremists, is ANY extremist viewpoint good to start a country that professes all these "God given rights?" I don't see how such an ethic allows for ant other's thoughts/practices.

The Puritans yes, and others. There were many Euro Christians who immigrated to the New World prior to the writing of the Declaration. Nearly any graveyard in the North East (which are Christian mind you) will reveal much about the Christian heritage of the peoples who came here from Europe. To deny that God, the 10 Commandments, the Bible, and other Religious beliefs of the day, which were clearly conservative in nature, were instrumental in the formation of the United States is just plain ridiculous, and as it pertains to this thread, Liberalism is in direct conflict with that, period, hence my statement Liberalism hates America and the values upon which it was founded, which of course, did NOT include promotion of Homosexuality, Abortion, Lesbiansim, and the like.