Do not read if you believe

as mentioned by Zerodeep
Also, Seekerof, Jesus of Nazerene has no proof, i've created a thread on the topic already.

Dude, you think one topic and its small amount of questionable sources is proof that there is no reference of historical Jesus? Not!
Be for real.
There are historical scholars in many, MANY universities that study this and have concluded, though with debate, that there is enough evidences to conclude quite differently than your one or two topics on this have concluded and continue to this day to assert.
This matter of a historical Jesus is debatable and will continue to be so because of the implications alone for such a man being factual and historical.....as with this matter dealing with the reality of God, one side must prove to the other side this and that, again, because of the social and theological implications...

In the end Zerodeep, are you 100% sure of either, cause I know I'm not?



seekerof

[edit on 20-10-2004 by Seekerof]

I meant, Historical, wether or not the cannonized Jesus Christ existed in objective history as dictated through the Bible and many other Gospels; and insofar as these scholars concluding x position, i can recall many other scholars that have concluded y position.

There hardly is a shred of proof, that is of course, if you believe that Shroud of Turin to be a conclusive piece; James osuary gave us the run for out money untill it was debunked; and then there are the claims of Tactius and Flavius, which time and time again have been detracted by, not only members of this site, but many esteemed scholars.

Deep

[edit on 20-10-2004 by ZeroDeep]

Originally posted by Atomix
Why do people believe in God? there is nooooooooooo proof! no one alive today has ever seen Jesus. and if God is so good why: world war 1+2, vietnam war,cold war, all the other wars i don't know about, killing, guns,weopons, depression, famine, everything!?! all we have to go on is a few scraps of evidence!!! For all we know the bible could have been written by a storyteller. seriously people, i could say: if god is really there he will give me a sign and nothing will happen! See i just did! if you believe then convince me!


[edit on 20/10/04 by Atomix]

Sir I deny you, your truth in this statement you can find proof in any Bible on the planet.....How could there be a collection of God's words that tell us the step by step evelution of his creation all the way to the end and almost every single thing in it has happened in fact .....WAIT BEFORE YOU ANSWER THAT LET ME REMIND YOU this book was written over 2000 years ago so there is no other way it could be so acurate unless it was the true word of the almighty himself and he existed to speak it.

Originally posted by drbryankkruta

Sir I deny you, your truth in this statement you can find proof in any Bible on the planet.....How could there be a collection of God's words that tell us the step by step evelution of his creation all the way to the end and almost every single thing in it has happened in fact .....WAIT BEFORE YOU ANSWER THAT LET ME REMIND YOU this book was written over 2000 years ago so there is no other way it could be so acurate unless it was the true word of the almighty himself and he existed to speak it.

Yikes. Another tally for the "the bible says God's real and the bible is real because God says it's real - it says so in the bible" arguement.

I'm not sure what has come to pass that the bible said would come to pass, mostly because nobody ever cites specific examples, but I'm open to learning. Enlighten me.

Zip

Atomix please rejoice and repent in the presence of God for you have Broken three of the major laws he has given you.


"TEST NOT THE LORD THY GOD"

"THOU SHALT HAVE NO GODS BEFORE ME' if you dont believe in God the you must believe in something or you would have no moral structure of a conscience

"THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS"

I personally believe in god but i dont think its right to try to force people to my beliefs. they believe what they choose, the way i see it, if your raised a certain way, you have certain instincts about right and wrong. i wouldnt necesarily say there has to be some kind of ''belief in a higher being'' or ''power'' has to be the basis for their judgement, but either way we dont have evidence that god exists or doesnt no exist. true there isnt much evidence he does, aside from faith, but at the same time can anyone disprove his existence? like the wars arent his fault, he apparently gave us free will, if thats the case then were responsible for our own actions. IMO they arent proof he DOESNT exist.....but then how do you explain people suddenly recovering from cancers or other fatal conditions that doctors didnt think were curable? i dont think theres a scientific answer for it.......either way, exist or not, i dont those that would question this (no disrespect meant to those who do) have enough evidence one way or the other.....

Why is it that people have to get so nasty about the bible. I think it is because it shows the true condition of mankind. We are all truly bad. The bible is not a book that man could write if he would. The bible does not honour man but it does honor God. The people in the bible are shown warts and all.

Christianity says 'God is love', 'love one another' and love your enemies.
Christians have been at the forefront of helping the sick, orphaned, aged, feeding the hungry, educating the poor, and opposing any form of exploitation.

I would like to know what is wrong with that. For christianity to cause people to have so much hatred toward it, it must be true; as Jesus said "If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you." John 15:18,19.

Why is everyone so wrapped in in JESUS?!?!?! I swear to Allah, people connect God with Christianity. Let's just pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist eh? WAKE UP!

Here's FACTS:

*The bible is, and will always be, a BOOK. Just....a BOOK.

*The bible was, and always will be, written by MEN...not God.

When was the last time your bible caught on fire and started speaking in tounges? How about your Quran? Your Vedas?

These are collections of the ethcis and beliefs of man. god did not tel us these words. And if God came back this moment, she probably wouldn't say, "Do not keep company with female musicians, they will trick you." (Sirach 9:4)

I happen to be a female musician! ha, go figure.

Each of these religions are the SAME THING...they are merely adapted for time period and culture. Blood is thrown about, why? So that one man's book can reside in another man's home against his will? So that one man's church is bigger than the next man's church? So that we can cast hypocrisies upon our children by telling them to love all, but that homosexuality is evil, women are worthless, and to spill the blood of those who will not conform?



Since when did the existence of God have to be proven by a book?

Originally posted by rosebeforetime
Why is it that people have to get so nasty about the bible. I think it is because it shows the true condition of mankind. We are all truly bad.

Whoa! It makes someone bad if they don't believe in the bible they way you do!? I don't believe in the bible the same way you do, and I consider myself, as well those that know me to be very nice person...I am a very compassionate person to children and animals...they both just melt my heart and I will do anything for them that I can. I am not a materialistic person, I don't lie, drink, smoke, I don't do drugs, I'm very loyal. I don't believe in hating anyone, I am a very fair minded person...but not believing in the bible the way you do wipes all that out hu!?

All science is based upon underlying assumptions which have never been proven.

Science is the least tolerant of religions.

Physical reality is not the only reality.

God exists to give us someone to blame.

Nothing that is truly greater than yourself requires your worship.

Volition is nothing more or less than the freedom to choose our own delusions.

A delusion suited to another is not necessarily suited to you.

Ultimately, our own peculiar delusions are what define us as unique.

So choose wisely.

OK, I had to get in on this one......there is a guy, Grant Jeffrey who spent countless years researching this and wrote about it in "The Signature of God".....his findings, "documented evidence that proves, without doubt that the Bible IS the inspired word of God"

And think of this how long has the Bible existed....and how many millions, upon millions of people follow it. There are a 1,000 reasons to doubt the Bible, there are millions upon millions of reasons NOT to doubt the Bible.

As for God, only from personal experience, YES, like a previous poster said it is personal, and again YES. God is gentle, when you choose to accept Jesus in your life, really take time, devote yourself, you will see the "signs"
with out a doubt.

"Dont believe the things you see, rather believe the things you cant see" quote from Scripture.

Using a strictly scientific mind is too limiting. You cannot put God or spirit on a machine or in a formulation. Proving is related to science, spirit is related to your heart......you believe, or you dont, it is your free will.

Well there is one difference they do know where Budah and Mahhamad were buried when they died, but not Jesus the Christ.

Well there is one difference they do know where Budah and Mahhamad were buried when they died, but not Jesus the Christ.

We have surmised where he "may" have been crucified, but the fact remains, did he die at all ?

Deep

What do you have to lose by believing in God at the end if there is a God you will benifet. if not well, you'll just get swallowed up by the earth . nothing to lose and all to gain.

Originally posted by manny63
What do you have to lose by believing in God at the end if there is a God you will benifet. if not well, you'll just get swallowed up by the earth . nothing to lose and all to gain.

I have a totally different faith, that is my truth. I do not like the way the Chrsitian structure treats people.....for starters! Then there is that little problem with the bible being completely re wrtten by man...

What do you have to lose by believing in God at the end if there is a God you will benifet. if not well, you'll just get swallowed up by the earth . nothing to lose and all to gain.

Pascals Wager has been resurected from the grave once more.

www.geocities.com...

Deep

The writtings of which we should abide by arn't to far off I would say, except the believe in one God part because I find many religions enlightening. But I agree the way other cultures are respected by christians needs improvment. But most are followers largly out of fear... do what their told.
The ones who would live their lives with their own morals fit for a religion because its how they feel not because of what they are told they will get out of it in the end are the ones to truly admire.

There will always be non belivers there always have been even back then. that's just the way of man . We are but a minute grain of sand in this universe and God is to much for us to commprehend or even uderstand and at times man just cant deal with it. That's why there will alway's be doubting Thomas's around. We fear what we cant understand at times.

Originally posted by manny63
What do you have to lose by believing in God at the end if there is a God you will benifet. if not well, you'll just get swallowed up by the earth . nothing to lose and all to gain.

The problem is this: Which God?

There are literally thousands to choose from, including hundreds which are called "God".

What if you choose the wrong "God"?

Originally posted by LadyV

Whoa! It makes someone bad if they don't believe in the bible they way you do!? I don't believe in the bible the same way you do, and I consider myself, as well those that know me to be very nice person...I am a very compassionate person to children and animals...they both just melt my heart and I will do anything for them that I can. I am not a materialistic person, I don't lie, drink, smoke, I don't do drugs, I'm very loyal. I don't believe in hating anyone, I am a very fair minded person...but not believing in the bible the way you do wipes all that out hu!?

Not a Christian LadyV? Rats, sounds like you'd make a very good one .