Why Education is suddenly such a hot campaign topic

Here is a fun statistic:

The Federal Government spends approximately $8 billion on Head Start
They spend $79 billion on K-12
They spend approximately $1200 per pupil in the United States.


Yet, education hasn't improved since the 70s in terms of science and mathematics but our children can tell you all about global warming and DARE. Throwing money at education doesn't solve the deeper issues at hand. But it is so over politicized and entrenched that anyone who dares call out the nonsense is labeled as a child hater.

You're kidding right?School teaches them to pass tests now not learn,not to mention the political indoctrination.Education is not even functional and ambition in the majority is now lost to self serving apathy.Parents are forced to turn their children over to this system of disappointment and abuse and in order to apease the kids they are rendered incapable of adaptation due to the fact they are almost grafted to electronic hypnosis.Parents could be burned for raising kids just like patriots and Christians are the new outcasts,now that hippies from the 60s infest the academic world.

reply to post by ownbestenemy


I agree, no amount of money will solve our education problems. After all I didn't even hear Tesla's name until after i graduated high school. One trillion dollars wouldn't have fixed that. What a sad state of affairs the world is in. Our economic model is in shambles yet we teach it in such high regard. We dont need more money thrown into a broken system, we need the money to reinvent the education we currently drivel all over completely capable younger generations. Test scores are a wash and shouldn't be held as soveirenty to a schools reputation. Atleast in their current application.

I think if people knew the true history of events that have transpired in america, atleast some of them would be inspired to overcome the viel of society. But ......maybe thats the point.

reply to post by Whatifitdidhappen


I agree, I didn't hear many great names until I aged and decided that it was my responsibility to educate myself -- in turn I have applied that logic to my children; it is not the government's responsibility to educate my children, that is my job as a parent.

Given that, I hope we can keep your view upon our 'outdated' economic model from the main points of this thread. That alone constitutes a thread of its own and will only deter on the question at hand: Why is education (of sudden) a hot topic? As explained it always is, every election, from President to Council-member. It brings votes and money.

Post Script:

Please do not see my calls to exclude specific policies as a call to silence your opinion. We wholly agree that tossing money at the problem is not fixing anything and I guess I was just trying to say we should stick to that and a possible solution. In which I can only assume we greatly differ in opinion, but at least we are at step one; agreeing that dumping billions and billions of $ at it isn't making it better.

Originally posted by ownbestenemy
reply to post by Whatifitdidhappen

 

I agree, I didn't hear many great names until I aged and decided that it was my responsibility to educate myself -- in turn I have applied that logic to my children; it is not the government's responsibility to educate my children, that is my job as a parent.

Given that, I hope we can keep your view upon our 'outdated' economic model from the main points of this thread. That alone constitutes a thread of its own and will only deter on the question at hand: Why is education (of sudden) a hot topic? As explained it always is, every election, from President to Council-member. It brings votes and money.

Post Script:

Please do not see my calls to exclude specific policies as a call to silence your opinion. We wholly agree that tossing money at the problem is not fixing anything and I guess I was just trying to say we should stick to that and a possible solution. In which I can only assume we greatly differ in opinion, but at least we are at step one; agreeing that dumping billions and billions of $ at it isn't making it better.

edit on 2-11-2012 by ownbestenemy because: (no reason given)

I do appologize i tend to almost subconsciously put more emphasis on my connections to threads rather than the topic.

I will say this though also in accord, Any 'hot topic' given to any politician will at length be vehemently discussed and rhetorically cast asunder after elected. Its the nature of politics, the more yelling and rhetoric tossed around at debates it seems the better people will follow your lead. Rarely do you see any real changes take place.

reply to post by Whatifitdidhappen


Then we should move to an understanding of position. If you were in the power to affect change instantly, what measures would you undertake to rectify the state of American education?

What a large question! Even as I ask it, I fear the same question being redirected back towards me and I will have to take time to formulate an answer to it.

Originally posted by badgerprints
Load of garbage.
Education in the US is a disaster and the left and right both know it.
We spend more money than any other country and have lousy results.
So the response on the left is to spend more and the response on the right is to spend less. Neither actually looks at the fact that our system is broken because there are too many ego's in the way and apparently our educational interests and politicians want all future generations of Americans to be stupid.

How about we try fixing the way we teach the kids so the money we spend actually counts?

While I picked your post to respond to because you said the left and the right both know it, the truth is I am not picking *you* out for agreement or disagreement.

There are facts that don't make the news. The per pupil spending you see is a total of all spending divided by all pupils but in the schools there are two very separate budgets. One is for regular education and it is, across the board, much smaller than the per pupil spending you see in your newspaper. The other is for special education and it is much higher.

I am not automatically against special education. There are ways, however, in which it is out of hand.
Has anyone wondered about what would happen to special education if the federal mandate of IDEA was no longer funded by federal dollars and there was no more Federal Department of Education? I wonder about it all the time because the way the current mess is playing out is not an accident. So what is the end game?

Are there people (GOP) looking to fatally undercut special education because it costs more money than they can get results on paper? (I am not here to debate the morality or rightness of such an approach but special ed is half of the problem with U.S. test scores, the other half is poverty). I also do believe that special education (despite that fact that there are multiple ways in which it works) bleeds into the school overall. The kids with paperwork often start to coast. If they don't succeed the school will get sued. I suspect they either end up getting more than their fair share of the teacher's attention or standards begin to slip.

Civics, Economics, History. These are getting less and less time in most K/12 environments. And in most states they aren't tested for yearly progress in the way that Math, English, and Science are tested. Why is that? Does someone want a dumbed down electorate? Still able to perform basic skills and maybe even continue to provide tech advances, but unable to recognize that their rights are being stripped from them? Unable to weigh the matters of the day against the wisdom of collective experience? That (despite my moral qualms about it) really makes me hope that the master plan is a special education take down. The plan B is terrifying to contemplate.

It is something of a gargantuan task in its complexity. Because education isn't just predicated on the public school system. You provide an interesting query for much of my answer i'm not prepared for but i will say this; Information shouldn't handled, funneled, or withheld because of guidlines or outdated 'values' or at the very least for propaganda.

Giving the children all of the options to start with in my opinion is atleast a step in the right direction. Forcing a child to take a certain class at a certain age (high school) i believe not only limits their abilities but removes them choices and further education at their own disposal. This includes practicality classes like home ec and agriculture. Ultimately its not just one thing that influences a specific childs education and i realize that. But having enough money, resources, and the will to give right education out is critical to our future.

I for one will try to take extra effort in home-schooling mine, while knowing the practical applications of social development and work public education has. Hopefully I'll be well off enough to have the time.

While i didn't really answer your question (i might collect my thoughts and give you a more sufficient answer) I do feel like theres enough common sense things like with any company: Assessing your productivity to labor ratio. If you're top admins are doing nothing but providing more chaos and sinking the childrens rights to learn effectively its time to change you're capitol and methods. Teachers are the biggest asset to any school system so i think i would start there. And give parents more of a voice.

I could be rambling on if my post seems incoherent im sorry, i'll just say that i'll revisit your question when i feel like i have a more sufficient answer. Or bounce off whats already been discussed. And as you already predicted, what are your solutions to effectively change education?

Originally posted by Whatifitdidhappen
Information shouldn't handled, funneled, or withheld because of guidlines or outdated 'values' or at the very least for propaganda.

To this I agree. Information will become the commodity of the future. Information should not be constrained and all aspects should be taught regardless of past held values. As a deist, I see no problem explaining the notable religions of the world and how they effected global politics and civilizations throughout history. That is our story, regardless of whatever values we hold today. Neutering that aspect of our race (human race that is) only hampers our progress forward as a species in my opinion.

Giving the children all of the options to start with in my opinion is atleast a step in the right direction. Forcing a child to take a certain class at a certain age (high school) i believe not only limits their abilities but removes them choices and further education at their own disposal. This includes practicality classes like home ec and agriculture.

Sadly, from my experience with my own children and my limited scope of whatever school district they may be in, creativity is a stigma that is to be stamped out. A free thinker is problematic and a distraction in the classroom. A child that asks "why?" is not desired anymore. Critical thought is nearly frowned upon as a generalization from what I observed.

For instance: My oldest had to write a report on the human senses. He wanted to include a thought that we had six senses; the sixth being our 'instinct'. I encouraged him but also told him that his stance would be hard to prove -- but such a stance, if it were his 'gut', he should do so to vindicate his position on this sixth sense. He received a D+ because of this inclusion. No discussion, no inquiry on his thoughts, no picking the brain so to speak. It didn't follow the guidelines so it failed. That in my opinion is one of the huge smothering aspects of our system here in the States.

I, as yourself, will have to take more time to think of the question though.

Originally posted by ownbestenemy
reply to post by PurpleChiten

 

We have sparred on issues before. This one, education, is a sad state of affairs in my opinion. We have history that tells of us children, as young as 8 or 9, learning about Socrates, law, history, mathematics, the "arts", etc in the late 1700s -- yet today a student (I know because I have two of them who I have to diligently drill other knowledge into) who barely know grammar, arithmetic, comprehension.

Sadly, my two boys, if not for my rigorous extracurricular exercises would know all about "social" issue and nothing about the basic (reading, writing and arithmetic). That is the state of American "education" in its full monty so to speak.

You do have some points. Many districts have lost sight of what's really important (helping the students become life long learners) and focus more on how to get them to pass the tests. I would say that teachers are on the forefront of trying to ensure they get what they need and administrators are constantly pressuring the teachers to ensure the students do well on the test instead of worrying about actually educating them.

A lot of teacher's dreams have been squashed by administrators. I see it happen time and again. The teacher comes in wanting to instill knowledge and their love for learning into their students but are met with paperwork, curriculum maps, state standards and achievement testing. All the focus, from the administrative standpoint, is on the tests, not on the kids. It is disheartening and sickening and something definitely needs to be done about it.

reply to post by PurpleChiten


I teach in a very poor environment. Some of our students are homeless, just to give you an idea.

This year I'm department chair of first grade, we have three first grade teachers. One is myself, one has two years experience, one has five.

This past Monday, one of my teachers resigned. I asked her why, the long and short of it is the stress and workload.

My other teacher, who is 28ish, went to the hospital ER on Thursday for chest pains. Diagnosis? Stress induced panic attacks.

PurpleChiten you are dead on with your assessment of too many administrators. We have three, for a small school. I've pestered them for help in our classrooms, but nothing happens. Two of those three have the title of "support personnel" but they have yet to actually support the teachers. They seem quite content to pop in and out of classrooms to look for "problems" but never do they offer advice or help to anyone.

Ah, sorry for going off like this, but I'm fed up with trying to teach and being hamstrung every day. I'm tired of reading threads were the average person blames all the woes of education on the teachers. I'm tired of trying to defend my profession, which is one of the most honorable professions out there, and being scorned for doing so.

Okay, I'll stop. Sorry if I derailed the thread.

reply to post by smyleegrl


Not derailing at all. I know right where you're coming from. It seems to be a common theme in schools

Instead of addressing the problems like not enough textbooks or overcrowded classrooms, they just throw another administrator in the mix who comes to look for problems instead of bring solutions

Ya know, if the effect of "cutting education" would be that the school districts would end up having to cut almost everything EXCEPT teachers and textbooks for a year, then definitely rebuild and increase the funding to about 1/3 its previous level with all the things cut out remaining cut out, then I'd be all for it.

If there were deep cuts, I mean MAJORLY deep cuts, after they got rid of the things we do want and need such as humanities, sports and other programs (which can be brought back after the real fat is cut), they would HAVE to cut all the extra administration, they wouldn't have a choice. There are only so many teachers they can cut before they're stuck with taking away some of the administrators because the 5 or 6 assistant principals can't do much when they're down to only 7 teachers now can they?

When education tried to go the route of business, the problem started and it's spiraled ever since. Instead of putting emphasis on the students, the emphasis has been elsewhere and it needs to be brought back into focus.

I'm all for being educated, but fail to see how this has to do with policies within the federal government.

Education in the 21st century is autodydactic.

You're just going to get institutionalized from that crap in the Universities.

Originally posted by smyleegrl
Ah, sorry for going off like this, but I'm fed up with trying to teach and being hamstrung every day. I'm tired of reading threads were the average person blames all the woes of education on the teachers. I'm tired of trying to defend my profession, which is one of the most honorable professions out there, and being scorned for doing so.

Okay, I'll stop. Sorry if I derailed the thread.

You shouldn't be sorry for this assessment. Solely laying the blame at a teacher's feet does no justice nor does it help the obvious -- our school system and state of education is dismal. Blaming just a teacher ignores everything else that is wrong; from curriculum to administrators to State/Federal policies the system is broken.

On a more personal note it sounds like you are the type of teacher that I had when I was graduating high school or like the teacher my oldest son had last year that encouraged free and creative thought. All it takes for a student to be impressed is a teacher that sees them as an individual and not part of some collective mass ready to be drilled whatever information they wish to infuse the palatable grey matter between our precious young ears.

Keep up your good work and love for your profession on passing on the wisdom and knowledge that you have unto the next generation.