massive and illegal geoengineering project detected off Canada's west coast

A private company backed by a controversial U.S. businessman has unilaterally conducted the world's most significant geoengineering project to date. Russ George, in conjunction with a First Nations village on Haida Gwaii, has dumped around 100 tonnes of iron sulphate into the Pacific Ocean in a technique known as ocean fertilization. The experiment, which is in violation of two United Nations moratoria, has outraged environmental, legal, and civic groups. The iron sulphate was dumped into the Pacific back in July, but recent satellite images are now confirming its effects — an artificial plankton bloom that's 10,000 square kilometers (6,214 square miles) in size. The intention of the project is for the plankton to absorb carbon dioxide and then sink to the bottom of the ocean. George is hoping to cash in on lucrative carbon credits.

source

More here

Pretty scary stuff if this is true. How is it that we don't have a process in place to put people like this in jail? We don't even know what long term effects this "seeding" will have on our oceans, let alone our world.

Global warming aside, this is sheer madness. Dumping 100 tons of iron sulphate into the ocean can do nothing but harm the ecosystem, and any benefits it might have in absorbing carbon dioxide do not outweigh the potential risks, imo.



"recent satellite images are now confirming its effects — an artificial plankton bloom that's 10,000 square kilometers (6,214 square miles) in size"

reply to post by DeadSeraph


:shk:
some greedhead fishing for carbon credits
somebody ought to dump him out of a plane

but dont worry OP all that iron sulfate can't muddy the waters as bad as our resident contrail "scientists"
who'll be here soon to call you names

F&S'd

as for the GW hoax
More proof Antarctic ice shelves not melting at all www.abovetopsecret.com...

According to a statement from the American Geophysical Union, announcing the new research: It turns out that past studies, which were based on computer models without any direct data for comparison or guidance, overestimate the water temperatures and extent of melting beneath the Fimbul Ice Shelf. This has led to the misconception, Hattermann said, that the ice shelf is losing mass at a faster rate than it is gaining mass, leading to an overall loss of mass. The team’s results show that water temperatures are far lower than computer models predicted ...

reply to post by DeadSeraph


from your 1st source:

To make the project happen, George convinced the local council of an indigenous village to establish the Haida Salmon Restoration Corporation. He told them that the project would restore salmon populations, leading the First Nations people to channel more than $1m of its own money into the project.

the thieving scum

More on "Ocean Seeding" here:

link

link 2

Originally posted by DeadSeraph
Pretty scary stuff if this is true. How is it that we don't have a process in place to put people like this in jail?

Because it's not really clear what law he broke - its not the kind of thing that happens very often, so there's no specific law against it yet. UN resolutions are not binding against individuals.

We don't even know what long term effects this "seeding" will have on our oceans, let alone our world.

Global warming aside, this is sheer madness. Dumping 100 tons of iron sulphate into the ocean can do nothing but harm the ecosystem, and any benefits it might have in absorbing carbon dioxide do not outweigh the potential risks, imo.

This one bloom is a drop in the ocean, a tiny speck of the earth's surface which will quickly subside. There might be some local ill effects, but more likely it will actually be good for the fish. Still, not the kind of thing you want to randomly experiment.

The real interesting story here is that Russ George is basically a con-man, attempting to rip off both investors and corporations. He's tried this kind of thing before:

www.csmonitor.com...

Originally posted by Uncinus

Originally posted by DeadSeraph
Pretty scary stuff if this is true. How is it that we don't have a process in place to put people like this in jail?

Because it's not really clear what law he broke - its not the kind of thing that happens very often, so there's no specific law against it yet. UN resolutions are not binding against individuals.

We don't even know what long term effects this "seeding" will have on our oceans, let alone our world.

Global warming aside, this is sheer madness. Dumping 100 tons of iron sulphate into the ocean can do nothing but harm the ecosystem, and any benefits it might have in absorbing carbon dioxide do not outweigh the potential risks, imo.

This one bloom is a drop in the ocean, a tiny speck of the earth's surface which will quickly subside. There might be some local ill effects, but more likely it will actually be good for the fish. Still, not the kind of thing you want to randomly experiment.

The real interesting story here is that Russ George is basically a con-man, attempting to rip off both investors and corporations. He's tried this kind of thing before:

www.csmonitor.com...

Even if it's good for the fish in the short term (and it really can't be proven that it is), it's still completely unethical. I'm not implying that the world will end because of this, but we have no idea what the long term ecological effects of this practice are. Even if those effects are localized, it's still unethical and illegal. Not to mention the fact this dirt bag conned local first nations into letting him do this off the coast of their territory. We need more information, but at present it would seem that they were not given the truth as to what George was really up to.

Will be interesting to see how the Canadian government handles this, as this is a clear violation of Canadian law (UN Resolutions notwithstanding).

reply to post by Uncinus

There might be some local ill effects, but more likely it will actually be good for the fish. Still, not the kind of thing you want to randomly experiment.

Your belief that this will be good for the fish is wrong.

Studies have been conducted already that show this technique of geoengineering is actually very harmful to fish and the ecosystems that are "seeded".

The studies have shown that the algae, that grows and feeds off the iron fertilization, absorbs extra carbon dioxide from it's environment and is then eaten by the plankton. These plankton which contain high amounts of carbon dioxide are then eaten by fish.

When the fish eat and digest these plankton the plankton breaks down and releases the extra carbon dioxide inside the fishes stomach. Which causes bloating and often will result in the death of the fish. Large schools of dead fish have been found and it is believed to have been caused by the process I described above.

This sort of behaviour is exactly why a regulatory framework covering geoengineering is required - whether it allows it and applies conditions, or bans it.

But when such a framework gets proposed teh chemmies lal get up in arms that the fact that a framework is being proposed proves that geoenginering exists!!

Eg see www.abovetopsecret.com... and hte same publication posted at www.abovetopsecret.com...

and as Uncinus pointed out here - www.abovetopsecret.com...

Serious scientists are concerned about hte lack of regulation - it was a factor in cancelling the SPICE test earlier this year

But without regulation anyone who is less scrupulous can pretty much do anything they want - the OP being a case in point.

If you want to stop "Mr Big" doing whatever geoengineering he wants to then how are you going to do it if he is breaking no law? But there will not be laws if you keep complaining that having laws proves that geoengineering is going on!!

chemmies really need to get a better understanding of this issue!

reply to post by MagicWand67

The studies have shown that the algae, that grows and feeds off the iron fertilization, absorbs extra carbon dioxide from it's environment and is then eaten by the plankton. These plankton which contain high amounts of carbon dioxide are then eaten by fish.

That really doesn't make much sense. Plants don't contain carbon dioxide. Through photosythesis they turn carbon dioxide into organic compounds (that's the "carbo" part of carbohydrates, the organic compounds produced by plants are carbon compounds). Plankton which consume algae do not get carbon dioxide out of it and fish which eat the plankton aren't harmed by eating the plankton. They both prosper.

The idea is that more algae is produced. More algae means less carbon dioxide because it is turned into organic material, most of which is supposed to settle into ocean sediments where it would remain for a long, long time.

For the record, I find it a disturbing prospect with a high probability for unforeseen consequences.

Originally posted by DeadSeraph
Even if it's good for the fish in the short term (and it really can't be proven that it is), it's still completely unethical. I'm not implying that the world will end because of this, but we have no idea what the long term ecological effects of this practice are. Even if those effects are localized, it's still unethical and illegal. Not to mention the fact this dirt bag conned local first nations into letting him do this off the coast of their territory. We need more information, but at present it would seem that they were not given the truth as to what George was really up to.

Will be interesting to see how the Canadian government handles this, as this is a clear violation of Canadian law (UN Resolutions notwithstanding).

I'm certainly not in favor of his actions, and I think he's basically a con-man. But have a look at it in a global context. Here's that map extended to cover the world. His "geoengineering" is a tiny speck. Significant that it's visible at all, but not a world-wide effect, by far.

contrailscience.com...

reply to post by Phage


I'm not a marine biologist or any sort of scientist. My statement was based on an article I read nearly a year ago. I may be mistaken about the exact details of the whole chemical process.

I believe the deaths of the fish may have been due to the production of excess methane gas inside the fishes digestive system and not actually carbon dioxide. Nonetheless, the study concluded that the negative effects they were seeing were being caused by the Ocean fertilization.

Other studies have also found that some of these "seeded" algae blooms have actually become toxic (example: red tide) and they pose an even greater risk to their respective ecosystems.

Source

Algae are vitally important to marine and fresh-water ecosystems, and most species of algae are not harmful. Algal blooms occur in natural waters used for drinking and/or recreation when certain types of microscopic algae grow quickly in water, often in response to changes in levels of chemicals such as nitrogen and phosphorus from fertilizer, in the water. Algal blooms can deplete the oxygen and block the sunlight that other organisms need to live, and some can produce toxins that are harmful to the health of the environment, plants, animals, and people.

Source

Toxic algae are no picnic. HABs can kill fish, mammals and birds. They disrupt ecosystems and food webs and can lead to hypoxia, where large marine areas become uninhabitable "dead zones." They also threaten human health. Simply eating your favorite fish or shellfish can be a risk, if it's contaminated. Or imagine a morning surf or leisurely walk along the beach leading to an emergency room visit because of exposure to certain toxin in the water or air, which can cause gastrointestinal, neurological and respiratory problems that are sometimes fatal. This makes the dreaded summer cold seem like a walk in the park. These problems are getting worse, not better, as the incidence, duration and severity of HAB events are on the rise.

reply to post by MagicWand67

The potential for creating or enhancing a red tide is one of those unforeseen consequences I was talking about. Feed the wrong kind of algae and you could have a big problem.

reply to post by DeadSeraph

I think this is a terrible way to go about any kind of geo-engineering, and I certainly would not condone any such 'experiment'. I have seen first hand, the dangers of excessive fertilisation of a water way, albeit in different circumstances to this, so it can't be directly compared. It occurred in a fresh water lake near where I grew up, and was unintentionally fertilised.

An excess of nitrates from farm fertilization leeched into the waterways, and then accumulated in the lakes. This caused a huge burst in algae growth causing toxic blooms.

. There are eleven major lakes around Rotorua. Several of the lakes have suffered water quality problems for decades and the situation appears to be getting worse. The fundamental problem is excess nutrients (nitrogen and phosphorus) stimulating algal growth, cyanobacteria blooms and weed growth. Concerns grew when Lake Rotoiti, one of the major trout fishing and recreational lakes in the North Island, was entirely closed last summer for swimming. The severe cyanobacteria blooms on Lakes Rotoiti and Rotorua have received considerable media attention. There are concerns that Lake Rotoiti will become anoxic (lose its remaining oxygen) in the next year or two and that all life in the lake will die.

Report to the Minister for the Environment on Lake Rotoiti and other Rotorua lakes

reply to post by DerepentLEstranger

Originally posted by DerepentLEstranger
but dont worry OP all that iron sulfate can't muddy the waters as bad as our resident contrail "scientists"
who'll be here soon to call you names

Ironically, it seems that you are the only one calling anyone names
It's also ironic (this is starting to sound like an Alannis Morrissete track ) that someone who responds to questions about their claims by stating "Uumm.... ... dunno...", then refusing to acknowledge or respond to any further evidence, is accusing others of muddying the waters. Still waiting for your response in this thread, but I won't hold my breath.

I do completely agree with this though.

Originally posted by DerepentLEstranger

To make the project happen, George convinced the local council of an indigenous village to establish the Haida Salmon Restoration Corporation. He told them that the project would restore salmon populations, leading the First Nations people to channel more than $1m of its own money into the project.

the thieving scum

Originally posted by DerepentLEstranger
but dont worry OP all that iron sulfate can't muddy the waters as bad as our resident contrail "scientists"
who'll be here soon to call you names

Wow. Paranoia seems to have affected some folks on a dramatic level.
Help is only a click away.

This 'experiment' was completely irresponsible. Surely there are some environmental laws that he contravened? This is why GE needs to be legislated, as aloysius stated earlier. Legislation doesn't justify or normalise GE, but not having any legislation allows stuff like this to go unchecked.

Next time there is any move to legislate GE it should be supported, not shouted down. That's not protecting the planet, its the opposite!

I agree with DerepentLestranger's post about him being thieving scum. shame he made himself look silly with his other comments though.

reply to post by DeadSeraph


see, what i mean, note that they're slyy and subtly insulting you as well.


more on russ "gorge" george: scummy conman and ecological terrorist:
here he is making a payoff with other snake oil salesman
Russ George Selling "Snake Oil" to the Vatican


my, my, all roads do lead to rome after all, probably explains why he hasn't been shut down and locked up yet; powerful backers/allies/partners.
might also explain the use of jesuitical sophistries and casuistries by certain snake oil pedlars herein.

big list of links concerning this terrorists past schemes

Investigations of Russ George's Activities
Investigation and Compilation by Steven B. Krivit (2006-2008) (2012)

George has operated under an assortment of business names; Clustron Science Corp, E-Quest Technologies, Saturna Technologies, D2Fusion, Planktos, Diatom, Cold Fusion Future

newenergytimes.com...

WT: When geoengineering goes rogue www.washingtonpost.com...

reply to post by DerepentLEstranger


How come you can see through this guy for what he really is, but you fall for the chemtrail 'snake oil salesmen' such as Alex Jones, Will Thomas, etc hook, line and sinker? Where is your cognitve disconnect rooted?

see, what i mean, note that they're slyy and subtly insulting you as well.

Who is?

This is probably the most harmonious and agreeable thread on this entire forum, why are you trying to stir a fight where there isn't one?

Have YOU got an agenda?

Bit of a bomb shell coming out on this story today. Looks like the Canadian government was aware of George's plans and did not act to stop him:

Source

As controversy mounts over the Guardian's revelations that an American businessman conducted a massive ocean fertilisation test, dumping around 100 tonnes of iron sulphate off Canada's coast, it has emerged the Canadian government may have known about the geoengineering scheme and not stopped it.

The news combined, with Canadian obstructionism in negotiations over geoengineering at a United Nations biodiversity meeting in Hyderabad, India, has angered international civil society groups, who have announced they are singling out Canada for a recognition of shame at the summit – the Dodo award for actions that harm biodiversity.

reply to post by DeadSeraph


And here I thought that Canadian politics were somewhat sanitized compared to their neighbors to the south.
I can think of nothing good coming from mucking with mother nature. Sure she will recover as she always does, but the time involved in the healing process may be excessive.

I suppose the oceans are in line for a severe beating with the Japan fiasco still festering as it will for some time.

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
This sort of behaviour is exactly why a regulatory framework covering geoengineering is required - whether it allows it and applies conditions, or bans it.

But when such a framework gets proposed teh chemmies lal get up in arms that the fact that a framework is being proposed proves that geoenginering exists!!

Eg see www.abovetopsecret.com... and hte same publication posted at www.abovetopsecret.com...

and as Uncinus pointed out here - www.abovetopsecret.com...

Serious scientists are concerned about hte lack of regulation - it was a factor in cancelling the SPICE test earlier this year

But without regulation anyone who is less scrupulous can pretty much do anything they want - the OP being a case in point.

If you want to stop "Mr Big" doing whatever geoengineering he wants to then how are you going to do it if he is breaking no law? But there will not be laws if you keep complaining that having laws proves that geoengineering is going on!!

chemmies really need to get a better understanding of this issue!

edit on 16-10-2012 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)

I can agree with most of that, the trouble is/was the fear of unilateral actions by rogue countries/individuals on all sorts of GE. That however does not mean that such experiments are non-existant, or have never before been done, or are being done, by goverment, divisions of government, or others. Serious scientists may well be concerned with a lack of regulation, but then, serious scientists, not necessarily the same ones, will be concerned with a lack of action to combat AGW/GW and all the rest if they believe the warming scenario is a fact, while their shared information used could be ambiguous, or flawed for whatever reason. BTW, the SPICE test was totally cancelled for a number of reasons, including similar patents you should be more candid, not operate on a basis to know.