What constitutes a win in a debate?

(Wanted to write this here to avoid a barrage, also avoided the rant forum because I wanted this to be an essay of sorts. Mods, always to your discretion, of course)

What constitutes a win? A check in the plus column? Do we use points, polls, word count or applause?
(How easy would it be to S&F a presidential candidate?)

In earlier times the opponents would meet at the field of battle. Bloody disembowelments, torn limbs, dismemberments took the place of polls or surveys.

In the arena of ideas, it is not that simple. An opinion is a vague weapon. Weilded against an opponent, it can tear a person apart. To an ally, it is as soft as a down comforter.

In the political arena we have now had 2 debates. Two battles have been fought. But who won? Opinions are tallied on both sides. No quarter given.

So we remain at a standstill.

If one were to enjoy a polite, reasoned debate, about the only place to get that is on ATS in the Debate Forum. You won't find it in politics.

The winner of the political debate will be the last man standing on November 6th.

Not so different from the arenas of old. Until then, it'll be nothing but the swords of opinions weilded in the arena of ideas.

Thank you.

beez

Thoughts?

reply to post by beezzer


Well debates do not really open minds all the really do is further entrench people in their current position. In every debate the people in charge tell you who won based on their decision.

Originally posted by Superhans
reply to post by beezzer

 

Well debates do not really open minds all the really do is further entrench people in their current position. In every debate the people in charge tell you who won based on their decision.

"They" can telll me anything. "They" can spin like dervishes (as they do) all day long. But the winner is never decided at the end of the debate.

Any victory dance is premature because the conclusion doesn't occur until the actual vote casting.

I guess I'm just taking a step back from the narrow focus that partisanship allows ad am trying to see the bigger picture.

Thanks for replying.

I went through the steps to post here just to respond to you Beezer

I suppose the winner of a debate is largely in the eye of the beholder. At the same time, as a country, we do the opinion polls to get an unofficial winner since the debate is for the purpose of the election. Although I may feel someone did very well in a debate and may favor their performance greatly, if the majority opinion is for the opposition, then the opposition "won" due to the purpose of the debate.

I can definitely see what you are saying though, and it does depend a great deal on the individual at the individual level.

reply to post by PurpleChiten


Person A could "win" a dozen debates, slaughter their opponent in a frenzy of word-usage, yet have such a poor policy platform that they lose the election.

With hindsight, did they actually win the debates then?

reply to post by beezzer


I would still have to say yes, they won the political debate if the public opinion at that time says they won. Of course if someone were to watch the same debate 5 or 10 years down the road, their opinon might be totally different.

That's the nature of political debating. It's one of those things where people can say "I guess you had to be there". They are very dependent upon the "moment" and upon other things going on in the world at that particular time.

Unfortunately, score keeping just isn't conistent where debates are concerned and the only thing that really matters is what people who are watching it feel and think at the end of the debate and the few days immediately following.

That's probably one of the reasons I just don't get too heavy into the politics of things other than occasional bickering and quickly "get over it". There's no absolute answer as there is in Mathematics. (of course theoretical mathematics is a world of it's own, but we won't get into that). Politics often frustrate me, as does sociology. I like to have a definite answer or at least be able to support the answer with facts as opposed to opinions. It definitely drives me crazy at times.