Why does God hate babies who have not sinned?

reply to post by Greatest I am


You realize that the Adam and Eve story is not an account of historical fact, right? Humans all over the planet for many years have been fabricating creation myths to try to reduce feelings of mystery - we don't like unanswered questions for some reason. But sometimes we don't have access to the real answers, like the true beginnings of humans on Earth, and that's okay - we don't need to fabricate myths for our lives to have meaning.

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
I... can't believe... i'm replying to this.... (with a William Shatner star trek voice over for my opening).

God hates wickedness (evil) as defined by him. Babies cannot be wicked because they do not know right from wrong and thus cannot sin and both they, and children up to the age of accountability (they learn right from wrong) and mentally handicapped or retarded people fall under that clause. You cannot sin if you do not know right from wrong. Everyone else now, is fair game.

Sounds good but it is not in any way what scriptures say.
We are all born in sin.
I like that you have exonerated Adam and Eve and the whole concept of original sin though.
That was always a noxious policy and view.

Regards
DL

I think you need to read scripture more, but in your case it wouldn't do you any good.

Originally posted by Siberbat
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

It seems "Greater I am" you get around. See this thread almost word for word in other threads. Google is wonderful. Just search "Why does God hate babies who have not sinned?". Perhaps Greater I Am can cite scripture (in context) to support the claims.
Greater I Am:
Tell us what you think the Creator owes the creation? Should the pot tell the potter what is right or wrong? Or, the pen & paper tell the architect how to design?
No God owes us nothing, because without God, we are nothing. No one is innocent, not even babies. If a baby perrishes, for whatever reason, God has still done no wrong, as we all will leave this existance either sooner, or later.
As for the soul of the child, God will be the judge. My assumption is that since the child had no ability or oppertunity to fall away from God, he would see no wrong from that child. (my assumption).

When it comes to Adam, sin, and evil you seem to be outraged that a loving God would allow such things. Of course God allows evil in the world. I will point out that even after being told not to eat from the tree of knowledge, Adam and Eve still chose to do so. I don't recall them being forced to eat the fruit, do you? It is their rebellion which manifested into sin. The price for sin is death. Adam and Eve where responsible for the lost of paradise on earth. I guess you would have to say Adam and Eve where indirectly responsible for babies dying for breaking the Law of God.
So, why would God allow this to happen if He knew what humans would do? Well, why do people have kids if we know they will be killers or saints? Because even though He knew what would happen, He still loves us. You can still love your children but not approve of what they do.
God gave us a way to come back to him through the blood of Christ. See Christ paid for us through his death. The wage of sin was paid for. Acceptance of Christ's sacrifice will not result in a spiritual death, but everlasting life. Its a loophole to the Law of God.
Greater I am, if you are serious about finding answers...awsome. But if this is a twisted pastime of yours (to try to be disrespectful to people's religious beliefs) shame on you for being what you accuse God of being...hateful.
So be respectful and lets continue, or you can just copy/paste this thread onto another internet forum. As for me, I've said what I needed to say.
God Bless

I think the pot with the hole that leaks has every right to ask the potter who is condemning it for leaking --- to ask why the potter created the hole if he did not want it there in the first place.

You seem to think we are not to judge God while at the same time judging him yourself.

You just do not like the fact that some disagree with your judgement of God as being good and worth following.

As to A & E, you seem to think that for humans to want their spiritual eyes opened and gain the moral sense that God had, is evil.

Even as all churches, governments and parents want badly to teach morals and open the spiritual eyes.

How foolish.

You would prefer mankind to go extinct as you may have noted that God's first command to A & E was to reproduce in Gen 1 ---- but they could not do so till Gen 3 after they ate of the tree of knowledge.

The Jews, the authors and true judges of their own myths called Eden man's elevation because of this while Christians reversed that more intelligent evaluation to a fall.

How is becoming as Gods in the moral sense a fall? .

Regards
DL

Originally posted by jeantherapy
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

You realize that the Adam and Eve story is not an account of historical fact, right? Humans all over the planet for many years have been fabricating creation myths to try to reduce feelings of mystery - we don't like unanswered questions for some reason. But sometimes we don't have access to the real answers, like the true beginnings of humans on Earth, and that's okay - we don't need to fabricate myths for our lives to have meaning.

I am aware that the story is a myth.

A myth that Christianity has given truth to and used for evil.

Reading it as truth shows that was God's plan from the beginning to have Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit. This can be demonstrated by the fact that the bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as atonement for sin before he even created human beings or God damned sin.

If God had not intended humans to sin from the beginning, why did he build into the Creation this "solution" for sin? Why create a solution for a problem you do not anticipate?

God knew that the moment he said "don't eat from that tree," the die was cast. The eating was inevitable. Eve was merely following the plan.

This then begs the question.

What kind of God would plan and execute the murder of his own son when there was absolutely no need to?

Only an insane God. That’s who.

The cornerstone of Christianity is human sacrifice, thus showing it‘s immorality.

One of Christianity's highest form of immorality is what they have done to women.
They have denied them equality and subjugated them to men.

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
I... can't believe... i'm replying to this.... (with a William Shatner star trek voice over for my opening).

God hates wickedness (evil) as defined by him. Babies cannot be wicked because they do not know right from wrong and thus cannot sin and both they, and children up to the age of accountability (they learn right from wrong) and mentally handicapped or retarded people fall under that clause. You cannot sin if you do not know right from wrong. Everyone else now, is fair game.

Sounds good but it is not in any way what scriptures say.
We are all born in sin.
I like that you have exonerated Adam and Eve and the whole concept of original sin though.
That was always a noxious policy and view.

Regards
DL

I think you need to read scripture more, but in your case it wouldn't do you any good.

Correct.

Regardless of how many times I read it, it still comes out showing an immoral prick of a God.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

LMAO!!
]

I guess you think that was what the children and babies were doing as they died at God's murdering hand.

Regards
DL

no...

thats what i do when someone tells me im wrong... then offers a YouTube video as some sort of proof...


Still waiting on that "holy gospel according to YouTube" by the way....

Try Google. I am sure you will find it.

Regards
DL

reply to post by Greatest I am

We have no choice and no free will to deviate from our God given sin nature and God would know this as it is was all planned. Jesus was to die even before man was created. That is why Adam’s sin is called a necessary sin.

So God created our nature that is prone to sin and this was all planned, thus Jesus was to die even before man was created. Why is our human nature prone to sin?

To learn. How could you appreciate the light if there was no darkness?

What and why do we learn?

I think the answer to this question ties back to the creation of the heavens and the angels. Even the angels rebelled and lost their faith in the Almighty Father, led by Lucifer and his pride, although they had firsthand knowledge through experience of what is; like I said before, some of the angels did not appreciate the light because they were never in the dark. Now some of them are, but that is because they put themselves there due to their unwillingness to learn due to the stubbornness of their pride. Still, Father loves the rebellious, if He had not, everything of a rebellious nature would be gone; He's just giving them time. The key lessons to learn is love, hope, and faith; I think God made everything the way it is to help see things from His perspective.

IF the above assessment by me is true, a couple of questions that arises in me is: Why did God create in the first place? What is the purpose of creation of all by Father? Why would He want us to see it from His perspective? What happens after everything in life as we know it plays its course?

D C

"To learn. How could you appreciate the light if there was no darkness? "

If God wanted man to learn, he sure indicates otherwise when A & E reached out for the knowledge of damned near everything which is what the tree of knowledge is.

Some truthfully postulate that the knowledge of good and evil is basically the knowledge of everything.

For a mental exercise, try to list 3 issues that do not have good and evil aspects.

It is rather hard.

So A & E were basically in the dumbest possible condition for living organisms. As bright as bricks. That is why they did not know enough to reproduce till after eating of the tree of knowledge.

You will know that God's first command to reproduce in Gen 1 yet A & E did not have the desire or know how till after they ate in Gen 3.

If man was to learn anything, he had to disobey God. Quite the set up that from the Christian view.

Christianity would not have this weird interpretation if they had stayed with the better Jewish view of their own myth and called it man's elevation and not the fall.

It was God's plan from the beginning to have Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit. This can be demonstrated by the fact that the bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as atonement for sin before he even created human beings or God damned sin.

If God had not intended humans to sin from the beginning, why did he build into the Creation this "solution" for sin? Why create a solution for a problem you do not anticipate?

God knew that the moment he said "don't eat from that tree," the die was cast. The eating was inevitable. Eve was merely following the plan.

This then begs the question.

What kind of God would plan and execute the murder of his own son when there was absolutely no need to?

Only an insane God. That’s who.

The cornerstone of Christianity is human sacrifice, thus showing it‘s immorality.

One of Christianity's highest form of immorality is what they have done to women.
They have denied them equality and subjugated them to men.

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL
------------------------

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.

That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all sin by nature then, the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not sin.


Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that evil is all human generated. Evil is our responsibility.

Much has been written to explain what I see as a natural part of evolution.

Consider.
First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created.

Evil then is only human to human.
As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.
Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil at all times.

Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.

This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.

Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, we should all see that what Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanks for being available to us.

There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be. We all must do what some will think is evil as we compete and create losers to this competition.

Regards
DL

----------------------------

Theistic evolution.
www.youtube.com.../c/6F8036F680C1DBEB

reply to [url=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread889446/pg1#pid15121580]post by Greates

Removed original as it was just provocation...sorry

edit on 17-10-2012 by drevill because: see above