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Scientific proof of God/superior being!!??

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posted on Oct, 17 2004 @ 03:45 PM
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Id' like to know if anyone can counter this in any way so that I know how to make it better, or if its just impossible to prove... So here it is.

We all know that according to the conservation of mass or w/e it's called it is impossible to create or destroy energy. We also know that it takes energy to keep people alive. Therefor when sombody dies that energy must go somewhere. As long as someone hasn't been "dead" too long they can be revived with that heart shocking thing. Meaning that their conciousness is still there but lifesigns are not visable. However when someone is completly dead it is not possibly to revive them by meens of any energy type we know of(heat electricity kinetic light ext...). Therefore it must be an energy i will identify as life energy. Since energy cannot be distroyed it must go somewhere proving
#1 there is an afterlife
#2 this energy is being given and taken by a superior being, or is going into an alternate/or parallel dimension
because if it did stay here and was basically just floating around it could go through a dead body and they would come back to life.

I would greatly appreciate all views, and ideas on my theory. thnx



posted on Oct, 17 2004 @ 03:57 PM
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Energy isnt an actual thing, just a concept.
Like the kinetic energy of an electron doesnt mean it has a property of x joules, just that it is moving at a certain speed which means it could potentially gain x height, etc.
Energy can be 'created and destroyed', e=mc^2. Energy gained = Mass Lost x Speed of Light squared
For example, photons can create mass, and mass/anti-matter annihilates to form photons, pure forms of energy.
When you are clinically dead, you are just that. The consciousness is no longer there, just like the life-signs. It depends if you believe in a soul or not, but generally speaking, your personality is just interactions between neurones, and as such, ceases to exist when the neurones stop working, but can be brought back.
The energy in a system (someone's dead body) is in several forms; chemical, kinetic, gravitational potential, etc. the life energy you are thinking of is simply chemical energy, which is released during decomposition of the body (Which is why bacteria can survive off dead bodies)



posted on Oct, 17 2004 @ 04:31 PM
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think of it this way the brain is there to control your body, but what controls your brain? making the mind and the brain 2 different things my mind is my will and my brain is the physicall component there to cary out the mind's instructions.
the e=mc^2 thing allows for loss of a mass's energy not destruction. and if u were refering to kinetic energy as the concept yes what i was meaning by that was that u cant hit a dead body or move it around and get it to come back to life, but thank u for your response. and im not talking about the life of individual cells im talking more about life that controls your body basically which goes back to the brain and mind which represents life of a person more than life of a body.
I hope that makes scence.

[edit on 17-10-2004 by IQkid]



posted on Oct, 17 2004 @ 04:37 PM
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I am a physicist, it will make sense.
e=mc^2 isused innuclear reactors..
Energy gained = Mass lost x Speed of light squared
Mass is lost in nuclear reactions!
Which is why so much darn energy is given out
The brain is self-controlling, through firing of neurones. It can be controlled by drugs, etc.
You might want to google in 'Flaws of Dualism'.. Mind/body separation is a philosophical theory that is MAINLY debunked now.
Life, in myopinion, is the collection of cells working for mutually benefical results.



posted on Oct, 17 2004 @ 04:45 PM
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Its a nice theory but I think the body and mind are like any machine, if they are broken long enough they just stop working. When the brain is deprived of oxygen it dies quickly. Simple really...



posted on Oct, 17 2004 @ 04:54 PM
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energy can be lost but never destroyed i doubt u r a phisasist considering u do not grasp that concept but i understand what u r saying although i would like to know how they debunked the mind body seperation thing



posted on Oct, 17 2004 @ 05:07 PM
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Originally posted by IQkid
i doubt u r a phisasist considering u do not grasp that concept


Your treading into dangerous waters here. Most everyone on this forum has at least some college experience, and many with Degree's, so I wouldn't at all doubt Browha is a Physicist. Careful...or you will feel his backlash



posted on Oct, 17 2004 @ 05:18 PM
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Oh man! after all the threads in ATS, and we have this! Where to begin...


We all know that according to the conservation of mass or w/e it's called it is impossible to create or destroy energy.


True.


We also know that it takes energy to keep people alive.


True.


Therefor when sombody dies that energy must go somewhere.


Energy leaves the human body also when the person is still alive.


As long as someone hasn't been "dead" too long they can be revived with that heart shocking thing. Meaning that their conciousness is still there but lifesigns are not visable.


No, it does not mean that 'their consiousness is still there'. It means that the braincells have not yet been damaged.


However when someone is completly dead it is not possibly to revive them by meens of any energy type we know of(heat electricity kinetic light ext...).


It's because the brain does not get any oxygen from the heart, thus the brain cells are destroyed.


Therefore it must be an energy i will identify as life energy.


There is no such thing as life energy.


Since energy cannot be distroyed it must go somewhere


Energy takes the form of heat and returns to the environment.


#1 there is an afterlife


You've just assumed that conciousness == energy. Well, that's a wrong assumption.



#2 this energy is being given and taken by a superior being


There is no logical connection between energy being given by a superior being. If new energy was introduced in the universe, it would upset the proven laws of thermodynamics.


or is going into an alternate/or parallel dimension


You just made another wrong unproven hypothesis.


because if it did stay here and was basically just floating around it could go through a dead body and they would come back to life.


Your post is the prime example of logical flaws in the common man's thinking.



posted on Oct, 17 2004 @ 06:04 PM
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Originally posted by browha
Life, in myopinion, is the collection of cells working for mutually benefical results.


So then, in your opinion, a single cell organism is not alive?


Concerning the topic at hand:

The bible speaks of ruwach and nephesh these are translated into english as spirit and soul respectively. The context of these words seem to indicate nephesh is referring to the "energy of the body". While ruwach seems to indicate "something that makes something living".

That being said, I haven't delved into the philosophy of the eternal existance, so I cannot really respond properly. However, I think it should be said that duality need not exist for the mind and body to both be part of the same "whole" and function in the "whole" in ways natural to the part even if such function appears to an observer to be independant.

As for browha being a physicist, I do not doubt that he is. I have had cause to doubt his understanding of certain theories. (
@ browha) But that is not to say he is an unintelligent person nor a person without integrity.

If you want to examine a theory of energy/mass being destroyed, do a google search on "photon annihilation".



posted on Oct, 17 2004 @ 06:53 PM
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I was born in the catholic faith. As a child, I did try to believe, as they said, that "god was every where". I looked for him on four continents but only found evidence of much evil, in every part of the world.
I also was able to watch Nature at work on these same four continents. I was astonished as might have been Darwin.
Of course, for the most part, he was shunned for he dared contradict the clergy's theory of creationism. As where others who also dared contradict the church.
I saw utter destruction of sites and the death of many, brought on by Nature. Most of those who did die did so because they failed to respect
Nature and its ways, on land, in the air and at sea.
They built their town, under active volcanoes or on the edges of the oceans. But the most interesting to me is that the lands, destroyed to nothingness, soon, relived with different species of life.
So, my belief is that anything that lives, never really dies. A tree might be downed, it rots, it feeds insects and so goes the evolution. Even if burned, the smoke is absorbed in the atmosphere to become, what?
Dead leaves supplies nutrient to the grounds they fall on. I could go on and on.
Are human beings part of Nature? Or is mankind just an error of Nature, or whatever created it.



posted on Oct, 17 2004 @ 06:53 PM
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Since energy cannot be distroyed it must go somewhere proving
#1 there is an afterlife
#2 this energy is being given and taken by a superior being, or is going into an alternate/or parallel dimension
because if it did stay here and was basically just floating around it could go through a dead body and they would come back to life.



First of all, lets get something straight. It is the way electricity is used by our neurons that forms what we call "conciousness", not the electricity itself. Hey, a toaster uses electricity(like our nervous system), but you dont consider it to be alive do you?
Here are some counter points to your statements above...

"Since energy cannot be distroyed it must go somewhere proving
#1 there is an afterlife..."
No. Your neurons are dead. Like I said before, its not the electrical current, but the way your neurons use it that causes "conciousness".

"#2 this energy is being given and taken by a superior being, or is going into an alternate/or parallel dimension
because if it did stay here and was basically just floating around it could go through a dead body and they would come back to life."
Wrong. Your neurons are dead. You could pump the dead body with as much electricity as you like, but nothing will happen. See my rebuttle to point one...

[edit on 17-10-2004 by apw100]

[edit on 17-10-2004 by apw100]



posted on Oct, 17 2004 @ 07:03 PM
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Forgot to mention a recent incident involving God and a volcanic eruption.
Not in 1900 or 1920, but in 2003.
An eruption occured in the Andes and destroyed a small village. Many farmers lost theyr lives and farms, livestock and all.
They were all catholics and their parish priest told them:"Now you know the wrath of God who punished you all for your sins".
It was not the first time I'd heard of the real presence of God every where.



posted on Oct, 17 2004 @ 07:09 PM
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Originally posted by fromnorth
Forgot to mention a recent incident involving God and a volcanic eruption.
Not in 1900 or 1920, but in 2003.
An eruption occured in the Andes and destroyed a small village. Many farmers lost theyr lives and farms, livestock and all.
They were all catholics and their parish priest told them:"Now you know the wrath of God who punished you all for your sins".
It was not the first time I'd heard of the real presence of God every where.


how exactly does this involve God? seems to me like it just erupted and the priest was accusing all the people with serious sins against God

Note: I do believe in God/higher being as I was brought up with those teachings



posted on Oct, 17 2004 @ 07:23 PM
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Wow,

How dense can people be? No God? How then do you explain the Universe? Lets not even think about the mechanical rules such a system follows. The fact we even exist and the universe exists is self-evident evidence of a creator.

Dont miss the forest for the trees guys.



posted on Oct, 17 2004 @ 07:35 PM
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Originally posted by IQkid
Id' like to know if anyone can counter this in any way so that I know how to make it better, or if its just impossible to prove... So here it is.

We all know that according to the conservation of mass or w/e it's called it is impossible to create or destroy energy. We also know that it takes energy to keep people alive. Therefor when sombody dies that energy must go somewhere. As long as someone hasn't been "dead" too long they can be revived with that heart shocking thing. Meaning that their conciousness is still there but lifesigns are not visable. However when someone is completly dead it is not possibly to revive them by meens of any energy type we know of(heat electricity kinetic light ext...). Therefore it must be an energy i will identify as life energy. Since energy cannot be distroyed it must go somewhere proving
#1 there is an afterlife
#2 this energy is being given and taken by a superior being, or is going into an alternate/or parallel dimension
because if it did stay here and was basically just floating around it could go through a dead body and they would come back to life.

I would greatly appreciate all views, and ideas on my theory. thnx


You are on the right track.

The principle of physics whereby energy cannot be created or destroyed only applies to the physical plane; it does not apply to the discarnate dimensions which run off an entirely different spectrum of energy that many refer to as The Light. Near death experiencers often report seeing this Light "at the end of the tunnel" before leaving their bodies. It is not a physical source of light at all but the energy of Spirit that is nonliving and infinite.

The more spiritually advanced the soul (stemming from its ability to love genuinely and deeply, cultivated through selfless Radiance, service to others and striving to live by The Golden Rule), the greater its ability to Ascend into The Light after bodily death -- and therefore, the more powerful the individual.

The being who manifested The Big Bang (i.e., The Original Creator) was a rarefied God Realized Master who could Ascend very far into The Light, but He did not create that Light. The Light always existed and always will exist and constitutes the only way that reality could manifest in the first place. Without The Light, there could be no stars, no planets, and no souls.

The soul itself is also not composed of energy that is derived from the physical plane. It is composed of a much finer energy than that which can be directly measured in a laboratory (many have tried). Once free of matter, the soul transcends the physical spectrum of energy, which is the reason why mediums/channelers never convey reports of discarnates occasionally getting sucked into black holes when traversing the stars.





posted on Oct, 17 2004 @ 08:00 PM
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Originally posted by UnknownOrigins

Originally posted by fromnorth
Forgot to mention a recent incident involving God and a volcanic eruption.
Not in 1900 or 1920, but in 2003.
An eruption occured in the Andes and destroyed a small village. Many farmers lost theyr lives and farms, livestock and all.
They were all catholics and their parish priest told them:"Now you know the wrath of God who punished you all for your sins".
It was not the first time I'd heard of the real presence of God every where.


how exactly does this involve God? seems to me like it just erupted and the priest was accusing all the people with serious sins against God

Note: I do believe in God/higher being as I was brought up with those teachings


Seems like you did not see the sarcasm in my last phrase. Hell, they call him a GOOD GOD but every time I hear of His showing up, it relates to disasters, not saving the innocent victims including the youngs who know nothing of sins.



posted on Oct, 17 2004 @ 09:52 PM
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Originally posted by MrNice
Wow,

How dense can people be? No God? How then do you explain the Universe? Lets not even think about the mechanical rules such a system follows. The fact we even exist and the universe exists is self-evident evidence of a creator.

Dont miss the forest for the trees guys.


How dense can you be! The idea of "god" solves nothing! Why does the universe have to have a creator? Some people say "There must be a god, how do you explain the universe?". I ask, "How do YOU explain god?".
People say that a "god" created the universe. Ok, well who created god? Some will say that god is eternal. Well, why dont we save ourself some time and skip the unfounded idea of "god", and just say that the universe is eternal?
You know the only thing I believe 100%? The limit of human comprehension. Past a certain point, humans trying to understand the universe is like trying to teach a cow algebra. Its pointless, but fun to try!


[edit on 17-10-2004 by apw100]



posted on Oct, 17 2004 @ 10:11 PM
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Originally posted by IQkid
Since energy cannot be distroyed it must go somewhere

Thats sort of like saying that a cup of hot water cooling down is proof of an afterlife no?



posted on Oct, 17 2004 @ 10:13 PM
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Originally posted by IQkid
think of it this way the brain is there to control your body, but what controls your brain? making the mind and the brain 2 different things my mind is my will and my brain is the physicall component there to cary out the mind's instructions.

However there is a mind-will interface. Destroy a part of the physical mind, then that function is lost in the person. In other words there is a perception of thought as comming independant of the mush in the skull, but nothing to actually suggest it.



posted on Oct, 17 2004 @ 10:17 PM
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Originally posted by MrNice
Wow,

How dense can people be? No God? How then do you explain the Universe?

Er how do you? Goddidit? Gee, good explanation.


The fact we even exist and the universe exists is self-evident evidence of a creator.

Why? What suggests it cannot happen without a creator?




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