God does not follow the first principle of morality. Why not?

God does not follow the first principle of morality. Why not?

The first principle or morality is Harm/care of children. It is highlighted by the trait of compassion.

God ignores this throughout the bible by killing many of the weakest, most vulnerable and innocent, ---- children and babies.

God is showing a cowardly trait that contains no compassion or morality.

Children cannot be guilty of sin yet God kills them.

Yet those of the Abrahamic cults, Christians, Muslims and other believers, do not reject this cowardly and immoral God.

Why not?

Regards
DL

This clip shows the first five principles of morality.

blog.ted.com...

This clip shows what some think of God killing children.

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by Greatest I am

Try not to waste too much time on this. You are pondering the worthless, a deception and illusion. Of course there is a God but none of your investigations have anything to do with him. Listen to Alan Watt; read The Kybalion, murder your television set and refuse to be negative about anything. Most spend a very long time "getting it" but this is not necessary if you cut to the chase. Everything is well and always will be.

reply to post by Greatest I am


Simple answer really if you just apply logic.

There is no real "GOD" as defined by the fairy tales of religion, as an "GOD" that had all the abilities atributed in the religious texts would be above any kind of morality, or any such small minded nonsense. He would have made us perfect, and placed us in a perfect world, in a perfect universe, that is always sublime and stable.

We are not there, we are that, so that means simply, he is not HE.

Not to mention the whole part where it claims "GOD" said" what you hold true on earth I will hold true in heaven".

As that makes no sense that "GOD" would hold true in heaven that a flawed judgemental politically motivated man has the power to permenantly remove you from heaven based off of flawed data, and vengful spite.

The entire thing is nonsensical, it is a tool used to control the weak of mind, for the sake of maintaining power by those at the top, once religion wears off, they will have another means of inspiring absolute devotion, despite no actual proof of any type at any time in the last thousands of years.

I mean he destroyed sodom and gamora for far less than most westerners do daily, we are truly crrupt and decadent today by comparisson, yet the persecuted after thousands of years get no help or respite, yet after only only a couple of generations, he had to free the jews from tyranny? Cmon that doesn't even make any sense, what about the holocaust?

The point is, mother goose has just as much truth in it as any of the religions do, there is no difference between one fairy tale and another.

No argument from me so far.
Thanks guys.

Regards
DL

Why do you not seek god in a purer form than the religious scripture that clearly have not given you a personal relationship with it. Every religon is just a pointer on where you should go and are all not 100% right since they are not including all information god have. And do not listen to people who say you will go to hell if you do not belive like me. They are just deluded brainwashed people caught up in a dualitymaze that their minds have created that they will never find their way out of until the lose their egos.

Find your own relationship with god if you like to. Your choice. God will be ready for you and wait for you until you are ready for it.

reply to post by apushforenlightment


I usually dont relate to any talk about GOD as most people are so deluded ans indoctrinated, you are a rare exception.

I think I could actually talk about GOD with you in an intelligent manner, instead of just saying,I'im not religious" like I normally do. As admitting to belief automatically trips the "lets talk about doctrine and why everyone but us is going to hell" switch with most people.

I do in fact believe in GOD, I just dont believe in the same one as any of the major denoms, as their "GOD" has too many contradictions, and too many rules that sentence one to eternal suffering, for minor "offenses" in a finite life span full of pain and suffering, mixed with some good times, and alot of just regular coasting along times.

Good words, GREAT post! Star for your wisdom.

Originally posted by apushforenlightment
Why do you not seek god in a purer form than the religious scripture that clearly have not given you a personal relationship with it. Every religon is just a pointer on where you should go and are all not 100% right since they are not including all information god have. And do not listen to people who say you will go to hell if you do not belive like me. They are just deluded brainwashed people caught up in a dualitymaze that their minds have created that they will never find their way out of until the lose their egos.

Find your own relationship with god if you like to. Your choice. God will be ready for you and wait for you until you are ready for it.

You know this how? Apotheosis perhaps?

Regards
DL

Originally posted by inverslyproportional
reply to post by apushforenlightment

 

I usually dont relate to any talk about GOD as most people are so deluded ans indoctrinated, you are a rare exception.

I think I could actually talk about GOD with you in an intelligent manner, instead of just saying,I'im not religious" like I normally do. As admitting to belief automatically trips the "lets talk about doctrine and why everyone but us is going to hell" switch with most people.

I do in fact believe in GOD, I just dont believe in the same one as any of the major denoms, as their "GOD" has too many contradictions, and too many rules that sentence one to eternal suffering, for minor "offenses" in a finite life span full of pain and suffering, mixed with some good times, and alot of just regular coasting along times.

Good words, GREAT post! Star for your wisdom.

I share your thoughts on dialog but what exactly makes you believe that there is a God?
As a Gnostic Christian I agree with you that the Godhead is real but only went to belief after apotheosis.

What drives your belief?

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Greatest I am
God does not follow the first principle of morality. Why not?

The first principle or morality is Harm/care of children.

Do not blame God, but blame humanity. You know there are 2.5 Billion people around the world, claiming to have a title of 'Christian', probably read the Bible...

...That's a significant chunk of the world population... Blame them for hypocrisy!

Many verses in the Bible, stresses the importance of feeding the poor, the orphans, and widows....That it would actually forfeit your salvation if you don't!!

But Satan's popular religion tells you "you can choose not to take care of the poor" "take care of them only if it's God's will for you" "you get nothing out of doing good works"

Sometimes, it's even hard to blame the deceiver for many loves to be deceived for the love of themselves!!

I do know that 22,000 children die everyday of hunger.

It's a horrible thing to behold!! Yet many believes all the product of their hard work and honesty, they will buy with the best they can afford, leaving nothing after 10% tithes to give to the Will of the Father!!

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by apushforenlightment
Why do you not seek god in a purer form than the religious scripture that clearly have not given you a personal relationship with it. Every religon is just a pointer on where you should go and are all not 100% right since they are not including all information god have. And do not listen to people who say you will go to hell if you do not belive like me. They are just deluded brainwashed people caught up in a dualitymaze that their minds have created that they will never find their way out of until the lose their egos.

Find your own relationship with god if you like to. Your choice. God will be ready for you and wait for you until you are ready for it.

You know this how? Apotheosis perhaps?

Regards
DL

Lets just say I had a moment of clarity after being in a strange seek mode that was followed by an experiance that cannot be proven/accepted from an ateist scientific viewpoint. And I am clearly not the worshipping kind and was never religious and have a big problem with authority based on power for power sake and pride and have made that clear to whatever is on the other side, but belive in service for all by all in a symbiotic way and the golden rule. My thoughts in that moment of clarity and the experiance of the other side is what I base my ideas on. They will not be totaly correct since I have to little specific information and I do not thinks I am meant to have specific information here.

I love meditation/just being but I am not a good teacher for spiritual growth since I am to impatient and have to much of a temper

. And I am still having to much fun playing around with egomind and duality at times to be totaly nondualistic. I am what I am right now and that is good enought for now.

I read some Charles Dickens recently again, and how working class children were sent into mines just over a century ago in the very "Christian" Victorian culture.

The concept of "childhood" seems to be quite recent, or it was only reserved for certain classes.

Similarly there is also a concept of the "teenager" in the US since the 1950s, and nowadays the "tween market".

Good OP, but what is the definition of childhood?

There is no historical or current standard on this across cultures.

Nowadays children work in sweat-shops, or get abused by religious cults and recruited by African and other militias.

Even in the US Native American children were mutilated by US soldiers, for example at the Sand Creek Massacre.
en.wikipedia.org...

So what is childhood - is there any position in history that has waged war without affecting children?

Certainly childhood and ages of consent came about fairly recently, and thank heavens for that.
But for thousands of years there was nothing inherently special about a young body, except perhaps that they could remember cruel lessons from conquerors, or that they could be captured and trained.

I suspect that in ages past viewing images of unbaptized or unconverted children in hell was considered reasonable, according to the doctrine of original sin.
Even St. Augustine apparently said that hell was paved with the bodies of unbaptized infants.

However to us, and even modern Christians that is quite shocking and unacceptable today.
That is quite a recent change, and it probably has to do with secular factors in society and their impact on religion, rather than vice-versa.

The majority of Christians make God look really evil. I couldn't blame the OP's actions that seem antichristian.

If I happen to be an agnostic and have worked in relief missions in war torn countries, I would have said the same things as the OP. However, if I read the Bible, I would certainly detest the Christians for their wrong understanding of God's word and their hypocrisy.

ALL Christians were STRONGLY commanded to go out there, to rescue the lost, the poor, and the oppressed, else they forfeit their salvation!! But what have they turned into?? Workers of iniquity?? A great way to be mentioned in the Bible alright!!

Originally posted by ahnggk
The majority of Christians make God look really evil. I couldn't blame the OP's actions that seem antichristian.

If I happen to be an agnostic and have worked in relief missions in war torn countries, I would have said the same things as the OP. However, if I read the Bible, I would certainly detest the Christians for their wrong understanding of God's word and their hypocrisy.

ALL Christians were STRONGLY commanded to go out there, to rescue the lost, the poor, and the oppressed, else they forfeit their salvation!! But what have they turned into?? Workers of iniquity?? A great way to be mentioned in the Bible alright!!

The christians people come in many flavor. A few exmamples: The humble ones who are not judging what they cannot understand, and then we have the nondualists that exists in all religons that are as one with all nondualists and then we have the people who belive their interpetration of the bible is the right one and everyone who do not think like them are totaly wrong (black/white thinking). The third group is the people you see making a lot of noise about gays, abortions and hate against other religions and the unknown(god is from my definition an alien since I do not know everything about it ).

Originally posted by apushforenlightment
The christians people come in many flavor.

As do many people regardless of religion or no religion....

But only few will actually do something about the 22,000 children dying every day of hunger.

You seem to try to make fun out of this but the real issue is above!

Christianity and other similar religions are probably the closest in trying to solve the world's problems...

But the members only want the sweet thing out of it. As any ridiculously sweet thing, there's a catch. You have to show you are worthy of this reward. But they seem to completely disregard that part.... Because it's difficult!!

To show your worth, you are to be part of the solution. The solution which is against this evil worldly system - the reason for all the world's woes. But they who we expect to be the light, love the evil worldly system so much.

Christianity is probably the least respected religion by their own followers who claim to worship a God who created the whole universe!

They respect a tornado a lot more than God!! They would leave their possessions for a tornado, but never for God, how pathetic!!

Originally posted by ahnggk

Originally posted by apushforenlightment
The christians people come in many flavor.

As do many people regardless of religion or no religion....

But only few will actually do something about the 22,000 children dying every day of hunger.

You seem to try to make fun out of this but the real issue is above!

Christianity and other similar religions are probably the closest in trying to solve the world's problems...

But the members only want the sweet thing out of it. As any ridiculously sweet thing, there's a catch. You have to show you are worthy of this reward. But they seem to completely disregard that part.... Because it's difficult!!

To show your worth, you are to be part of the solution. The solution which is against this evil worldly system - the reason for all the world's woes. But they who we expect to be the light, love the evil worldly system so much.

Christianity is probably the least respected religion by their own followers who claim to worship a God who created the whole universe!

They respect a tornado a lot more than God!! They would leave their possessions for a tornado, but never for God, how pathetic!!

I know enought of what is going on earth to long to leave this place behind since the things I do seem so small in the scope of things. Even if I could feed the 22000 then it still would not be enought because it does not solve any of the systemissues that are created by people in love with egoparasitic systems who are using propaganda to keep feeding the lies (small minded duality views) to the people.

Jesus was an incredable teacher but had to hide part of the thruth of what he understoood in cryptic sermons that have hidden information for the right seeker to find since most people including the deciples where not ready for that level of understanding. And he also had to build on the old Jewish faith and it would have been better if he did not have to muddle the understanding because of that viewpoint of god.

And then the poleticians became involed and that faith became just a duality driven devide and conqurer scheme that is opposite of what it should be, but enought thruth to fool the people who do not seek to deep.

Originally posted by ahnggk
[quote

It's a horrible thing to behold!! Yet many believes all the product of their hard work and honesty, they will buy with the best they can afford, leaving nothing after 10% tithes to give to the Will of the Father!!

No argument that man is in control here and that religions do not walk their talk.
Neither do most of those who are not in any religion.

That being said, we should all remember that the world is progressing nicely in terms of the overall numbers at the bottom of our demographic pyramids who are doing better than they ever have. I track violent death including war dead, poverty, slavery and the world population that will stabilize in 2 generations. All of these are the best they have ever been.

The sky is not falling. The sad thing is, is that for about 1 % of GDP, we could end poverty and slavery today if we could muster the political and social will.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by apushforenlightment

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by apushforenlightment
Why do you not seek god in a purer form than the religious scripture that clearly have not given you a personal relationship with it. Every religon is just a pointer on where you should go and are all not 100% right since they are not including all information god have. And do not listen to people who say you will go to hell if you do not belive like me. They are just deluded brainwashed people caught up in a dualitymaze that their minds have created that they will never find their way out of until the lose their egos.

Find your own relationship with god if you like to. Your choice. God will be ready for you and wait for you until you are ready for it.

You know this how? Apotheosis perhaps?

Regards
DL

Lets just say I had a moment of clarity after being in a strange seek mode that was followed by an experiance that cannot be proven/accepted from an ateist scientific viewpoint. And I am clearly not the worshipping kind and was never religious and have a big problem with authority based on power for power sake and pride and have made that clear to whatever is on the other side, but belive in service for all by all in a symbiotic way and the golden rule. My thoughts in that moment of clarity and the experiance of the other side is what I base my ideas on. They will not be totaly correct since I have to little specific information and I do not thinks I am meant to have specific information here.

I love meditation/just being but I am not a good teacher for spiritual growth since I am to impatient and have to much of a temper

. And I am still having to much fun playing around with egomind and duality at times to be totaly nondualistic. I am what I am right now and that is good enought for now.

We share much in experience and attitudes. I too am a poor teacher because of my temper and not being able to suffer fools well.

I have no problem talking about my own apotheosis even as few people believe it. As they should not. That is why I do not push for belief. My apotheosis showed what I call a cosmic consciousness. A gathering of minds in one location. In your moment of enlightenment, was it a single consciousness or many that rewarded your seeking?

While here, lend me your ear for the following.

The Godhead I know in a nutshell.
I was a skeptic till the age of 39.
I then had an apotheosis and later branded myself a Gnostic Christian naturalist.
Gnostic Christian because I exemplify this quote from William Blake.

“Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read'st black where I read white.”

This refers to how Gnostics tend to reverse, for moral reasons, what Christians see in the Bible. We tend to recognize the evil ways of O T God where literal Christians will see God’s killing as good. Christians are sheeple where Gnostic Christians are goats.
This is perhaps why we see the use of a Jesus scapegoat as immoral, while theists like to make Jesus their beast of burden. An immoral position.

During my apotheosis, something that only lasted 5 or 6 seconds, the only things of note to happen was that my paradigm of reality was confirmed and I was chastised to think more demographically. What I found was what I call a cosmic consciousness. Not a new term but one that is a close but not exact fit.

I recognize that I have no proof. That is always the way with apotheosis.
This is also why I prefer to stick to issues of morality because no one has yet been able to prove that God is real and I have no more proof than they for the cosmic consciousness.

The cosmic consciousness is not a miracle working God. He does not interfere with us save when one of us finds it. Not a common thing from what I can see. It is a part of nature and our next evolutionary step.

I tend to have more in common with atheists who ignore what they see as my delusion because our morals are basically identical. Theist tend not to like me much as I have no respect for literalists and fundamentals and think that most Christians have tribal mentalities and poor morals.

I am rather between a rock and a hard place but this I cannot help.

I am happy to be questioned on what I believe but whether or not God exists is basically irrelevant to this world for all that he does not do, and I prefer to thrash out moral issues that can actually find an end point. The search for God is never ending when you are of the Gnostic persuasion. My apotheosis basically says that I am to discard whatever God I found, God as a set of rules that is, not idol worship it but instead, raise my bar and seek further.

My apotheosis also showed me that God has no need for love, adoration or obedience. He has no needs. Man has dominion here on earth and is to be and is the supreme being.

Regards
DL

edit on 6-10-2012 by Greatest I am because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by halfoldman
I read some Charles Dickens recently again, and how working class children were sent into mines just over a century ago in the very "Christian" Victorian culture.

The concept of "childhood" seems to be quite recent, or it was only reserved for certain classes.

Similarly there is also a concept of the "teenager" in the US since the 1950s, and nowadays the "tween market".

Good OP, but what is the definition of childhood?

There is no historical or current standard on this across cultures.

Nowadays children work in sweat-shops, or get abused by religious cults and recruited by African and other militias.

Even in the US Native American children were mutilated by US soldiers, for example at the Sand Creek Massacre.
en.wikipedia.org...

So what is childhood - is there any position in history that has waged war without affecting children?

Certainly childhood and ages of consent came about fairly recently, and thank heavens for that.
But for thousands of years there was nothing inherently special about a young body, except perhaps that they could remember cruel lessons from conquerors, or that they could be captured and trained.

I suspect that in ages past viewing images of unbaptized or unconverted children in hell was considered reasonable, according to the doctrine of original sin.
Even St. Augustine apparently said that hell was paved with the bodies of unbaptized infants.

However to us, and even modern Christians that is quite shocking and unacceptable today.
That is quite a recent change, and it probably has to do with secular factors in society and their impact on religion, rather than vice-versa.

edit on 5-10-2012 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)

You are likely correct with your last and I also have no argument with the rest.

"Good OP, but what is the definition of childhood? "

First. Thanks for the kudos.

I cannot speak for others but to me, my children will always be my children regardless of age. Not too helpful that is it?

Children all mature at different rates. You will know when your child is no longer a child. He or she will let you know when. Probably too early and you will want to push the timing further away but each of them will follow their natures. If you try to fight their independent natures, you are asking for trouble. As parents, all we can do is work along with them and hope for the best. Remember that even Socrates in some of his writings complained about children just as your parents probably bitched about you as you were maturing and trying to push the envelope of whatever age you were when you started to demand that your maturity be recognized. I know mine did and so did I for my children. I just than all the Gods that I did not have girls. I am told that I was better off with my 4 boys than parents with just one girl are. Girdle your loins and good luck and hope that your children grow up without you losing all of your hair. If they do not kill you, they will make you strong.

Regards
DL

reply to post by Greatest I am


I meet a physical person before my moment but after a amagydala fear overload, that told me things I did not belive before a moment of clarity happened. I have only ones heard something paranormal after a "ONE is ALL and ALL is ONE thought" that was very interesting and even biblical in context. But that was a signal to me to not be to harsh on the Christian faith even if I found it more small minded than some other eastern faith that is more easily understood and not contridictory. I have read Jesus after that and Jesus clealy gets nonduality but I am not sure all disciples did.

I do not know if you have the bliss/oneness and feel extreamly alive among other things. If you don't then one idea might be to start playing around with chakra/Merkaba meditation if that gives you a better connection and helps feel more comfortable. Thank you for being.

Originally posted by apushforenlightment
I know enought of what is going on earth to long to leave this place behind since the things I do seem so small in the scope of things. Even if I could feed the 22000 then it still would not be enought because it does not solve any of the systemissues that are created by people in love with egoparasitic systems who are using propaganda to keep feeding the lies (small minded duality views) to the people.

Looks like we are on the same page. I've read the rest of your post and it is a sound possibility.

Actually, if all Christians were to take Jesus seriously (overnight), all that 2.5 Billion people strong, where the biggest spenders of the planet are actually, mostly Christians!!

The evil system will cease to be a power. I could tell of the scenario when extreme austerity measures are adapted by each and everyone of that 2.5 bn, including the richest, sharing most of their resources to the community and living like a poor so they can give more...

A lot of the industries will fall. The economy will be severely crippled. The oil and food industry might retaliate and jack up their prices. The Christian community responds by inventing measures to become fully self reliant. The true Christians don't require a lot of food so it's feasible and sustainable.

Eventually, this will evolve into a full scale war between the world's government, the non Christians who wants to restore their greedy world system back vs the True Christians. Only few such Christians will survive such Holocaust of Biblical proportions(I'm not talking of the WW2 holocaust).

Unless God intervenes, the situation will revert to the situation we have today. The worldly will not only slaughter the Christians, but also slaughter the Gospel, replacing corrupting it into something else and the cycle repeats.

However, we are counting in the fact that God, will manifest in the most destructive forces of nature to bring an end to this evil system. If the majority of humans have sadly evolved into a parasitic abomination, then we all deserve to be extinct. The Universe is such a lovely place, it doesn't deserve a disease such as WE.